Angry in Pennsylvania

[BOPcollector]

A friend of Bill's came home from a fishing trip last year to find that his late wife's car (which he couldn't bear to part with) along with his pick-up truck had been hauled away from his property and he had to pay for the towing. He had been using them as storage areas. They were fully on his property but the neighbor complained to the police and city council, while he was away, that the vehicles "scared" her cat and she wanted them gone. So they came and took them and he could not get them back.

That's outright theft of private property. State or not. Taking someone's possessions without permission is stealing. The public officials that did this sworn and signed a Constitutional Oath of Office. That property owner should contest it and demand restitution. " No Trespassing" signs with a note of "$5,000 a day use fee for all Public Officials " on it will go a ways in pracecuting all involved. He should also sue each one in small claims court. His rights were violated. As long as the Oath of Office is effected for Public Officials, the Bill of Rights still applies. Know your rights, or NO RIGHTS.

[Guest ktm858]

Well I don't think I said it but yes she was trespassing. She or one of the kids in the ECO club did walk in the yard and took pictures. Also in another section of town she or one of the kids actually went into my friends garage and took pictures of his fenced in back yard. I tell you what if I catch someone in my garage without permission they are staying there until the police get there and are leaving in handcuffs.

[Guest ktm858]

Oh and I forgot to add I had spoken to the Chief of Police and he stated that if the borough removed any vehicles from anybodys property just as BOPcollector said they will be arrested for theft of a vehicle and also whoever had the vehicle towed will also be arrested.

[Shop Rat]

That's outright theft of private property. State or not. Taking someone's possessions without permission is stealing. The public officials that did this sworn and signed a Constitutional Oath of Office. That property owner should contest it and demand restitution. " No Trespassing" signs with a note of "$5,000 a day use fee for all Public Officials " on it will go a ways in pracecuting all involved. He should also sue each one in small claims court. His rights were violated. As long as the Oath of Office is effected for Public Officials, the Bill of Rights still applies. Know your rights, or NO RIGHTS.

Sadly this guy is so lazy that he will never bother to get back what is rightfully his. Having seen his car I can well imagine what the truck and his late wifes car looked like stuffed with junk. :eek: What amazes me is this that all this crazy lady had to do was tell the local police that the vehicles scared her cat and they had them towed. I mean if she had complained that it looked awful and affected her property values that would make some sort of sense. Sorry folks, that is strange even for here.

[Guest ktm858]

Well again we are moving forward we just had 60 tons of fill dumped and we have a company going to come in and level everything out. We received the permits and once the appeal deadline is up the contractor will start the building. We have had a bunck of rubber neckers coming by and I would imagine that they are coming to see what is going on. I am almost positive that the crazy lady had told everyone a totally different story then what is actually going on.

Once the building is up I am going to landscape around it and place some bushes to make it look better so nobody can complain.

[Guest ktm858]

Well here are some pictures. It is almost complete we need the floor poured then the gutters and doors then the electrical and were in business.

[K8096]

Congratulations. It's beautiful. Make sure you put a couple drains in the floor so you can wash a car inside if you want to.

[Restorer32]

Careful how you use the term "business". If you in fact intend to operate a business that opens up an entirely different can of worms now that PA has a statewide building code.

[West Peterson]

Don't put the drain in until after the inspectors have left. That's another can of worms to get approved.

[K8096]

Why? It's a residential building for private use, not a business. I don't know how PA is, but in Ohio I put drains in my garage addition and just ran them out to the storm ditch in front of my house. I live in a township so we don't have a bunch of nit picky inspectors. It's not like I'm dumping anti freeze or oil down them. I'm not that stupid.

[Restorer32]

In-floor storm drains are illegal in PA, especially in garages.

[Restorer32]

In PA EVERY municipality must have their own inspector or contract out their inspection work to a certified inspector. State wide building code enacted in 2004 changed everything. Even blow up swimming pools if designed to hold 24" of water now must be permitted and inspected yearly per UCC (Uniform Construction Code). Happily, most of the new requirements target commercial usages rather than residential, at least for now.

[K8096]

Interesting. I did a 24' by 50' addition to my garage which is attached to my house. I went through the proper channel and got all proper permits through the township and the county. I don't think they ever asked about drains. We just put them in, and they never said anything at the final inspection.

What happens if you drive a car in the winter covered in snow and park it in a garage? When the snow melts, where does it go? You mean you have to have a sloppy mess on your garage floor?

[Ron Green]

In-floor storm drains are illegal in PA, especially in garages.

Very true and this was the case when building my shop, including the drain from the slop sink. According to the inspector / codes it needed to be tied into the sanitary and not just run into stones like a french drain.

For me tying into the sanitary would have been extremely expensive which I would have needed to bust up an existing slab. Roughing the drain pipes in for the future is legal, sometimes the future is right after the building is inspected.

[John_Maine]

I have had a couple of quotes for a garage. Asked about a floor drain and was told it was illegal in Maine. Probably is everywhere now.

[R Walling]

A floor drain would be legal if you have it connected up to an oil and gas seperator.

It is a sealed well that is about 9 feet deep with the drain exiting from about 4 feet down from the surface of the liquid.

I built mine from 4' concrete pipe and catch basin blocks.

Your local building inspector will have the plans for it.

[Restorer32]

not in PA

[Guest ktm858]

Concrete gets poured tomorrow then one doors go in on Thursday. Then in about 2 weeks I can figure out how to place the cars in and start bringing stuff home from garages that we pay rent for. Im thinking 10 cars will fit maybe more if I put the smaller cars in and not the big boats.

[Guest ktm858]

The drains that we are putting in are also connected to the rain gutters and run the water into the yard in front of the garage. The concern that the inspectors had at first was where the water was going to go since the neighbors home is close. Once that they saw that it was going to bypass the home and have no effect on it they had no problem with it. I think especially since it isn't running underground anywhere. You can't hide anything this way, if something was dumped in the drain you would see it at the other end of the pipe.

[R Walling]

A friend built a garage and did not have a permit that included a bathroom or water. After the floor was pored and the building inspection was complete, my friend happened to hit the floor with a sludge hammer and found out that someone had left a piece of Styrofoam just under the surface, and under that, was a pipe that just happened to run to his sewer and, would you believe, there was a water pipe next to it …

Edited July 19, 2010 by R Walling (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Always ways to fool the inspector but he better not let neighbors see what he did. My brother is a Building Codes Officer and neighbors are almost always the ones to rat. Could also become a problem if he ever decides to sell. Big Brother is truly watching!

[Reatta Man]

Does that nosy neighbor in PA with the ECO club have any pets?

I hear mice make nice pets....especially if a few pieces of cheese, bacon, bread or other edible items suddenly appear next to the doors and windows of her house one morning....

[Guest windjamer]

32 is on the money. I built a garage for my two cars, went to the code officer first and just sat and shot the sh** with him for about a half hr. Played dumb (not hard for me) and he wound up doing all the paper work for me. I left with a permit but didnt put it up untill I drove the first nail.Code officer came and measured the fondation,told me he knew I was ok but he had a complant and had to put in a apperance. Came back again and measured the road frontage, guy next door thought I was two close,I found out I own almost 4 feet of his lawn:) I finely told him that code had drawn all the plans,that stoped the visits. You cant trust your neighbor if he knows you done something wrong. Do it right and get the last laugh.

[Shop Rat]

A friend built a garage and did not have a permit that included a bathroom or water. After the floor was pored and the building inspection was complete, my friend happened to hit the floor with a sludge hammer and found out that someone had left a piece of Styrofoam just under the surface, and under that, was a pipe that just happened to run to his sewer and, would you believe, there was a water pipe next to it …

Very tricky.

We lucked out when we moved into this house. The previous owner had put in the oversized two car garage with it's own bathroom and attic storage space. At that time the house and garage used a septic tank with a new, large drainfield. Several years ago the county installed a sewer system up on this hill where there are six homes and they tied all the sewer pipe into the main line so we didn't have to get anything approved, it already was.

[Guest ktm858]

Does that nosy neighbor in PA with the ECO club have any pets?

I hear mice make nice pets....especially if a few pieces of cheese, bacon, bread or other edible items suddenly appear next to the doors and windows of her house one morning....

I wish but she dosn't need my help to get her own. Since the building went up I havent seen her but im positive she was there checking things out. I did drive past her house the other day and she shouldn't be saying a word the way her house looks. Her porch is filled with junk that you can't even walk and her garage looks like the junk outside is the only thing holding it up!

[Shop Rat]

Always ways to fool the inspector but he better not let neighbors see what he did. My brother is a Building Codes Officer and neighbors are almost always the ones to rat. Could also become a problem if he ever decides to sell. Big Brother is truly watching!

Yeah we do that sometimes.

In my case it was to protect the health and welfare of the folks that were going to be moving into what is now a mobile home park across the fence from us. They laid the park out like the law required. Inspector showed up and approved it. He was probably not all the way down the hill and the stakes were being moved to make the lots too small. And rather than put the sewer and water in the two ditches (required by law to be 10' apart horizontally) they started putting the sewer line down and then the water pipe on top of it in the same ditch. :eek:

I called the inspector's office and he came right back and caught them in the act. Problems solved.

Oh, the owners of that park live two houses down from us.

[Restorer32]

I am in local government in a small PA town, elected Councilman. I am pretty much an anarchist when it comes to rules and regulations but many really are for the land owner's own good. When folks come in complaining that a zoning law won't let them do what they want to do my usual response is "so if we ignore the rules for you then you are OK with us ignoring the rules if your neighbor wants to open a porn shop in your neighborhood?" We can now buy a service for about $100/month that analyzes satellite photos once a month and reports any evidence of new building activity in the town. My brother is our Zoning and Codes Enforcement Officer, certified by the state. Virtually all of his tips on unpermitted building activity come from disgruntled or jealous neighbors. PA now has a state wide building code that MUST be enforced or the municipality risks losing state grant money or FEMA money in the unlikely event of a disaster. He is audited by the state once a year. Last year he was dinged because he failed to catch a toilet paper dispenser in a convenience store handicapped bathroom that was too far from the throne and a coffee dispenser that was too high above the floor for easy operatio by someone in a wheel chair.

[Reatta Man]

I am in local government in a small PA town, elected Councilman.

PA now has a state wide building code that MUST be enforced or the municipality risks losing state grant money or FEMA money in the unlikely event of a disaster. He is audited by the state once a year. Last year he was dinged because he failed to catch a toilet paper dispenser in a convenience store handicapped bathroom that was too far from the throne and a coffee dispenser that was too high above the floor for easy operatio by someone in a wheel chair.

Yep, been a councilman....know the things citizens will say.

As for that 'illegal' TP dispenser, I am SOOOOO pround. (Tear falling....) MY tax dollars hard at work saving us from the illegal distribution of toilet paper and coffee.

[Reatta Man]

I wish but she dosn't need my help to get her own. Since the building went up I havent seen her but im positive she was there checking things out. I did drive past her house the other day and she shouldn't be saying a word the way her house looks. Her porch is filled with junk that you can't even walk and her garage looks like the junk outside is the only thing holding it up!

Gee, don't most municipalities have ORDINANCES against junky houses and yards? And, don't code compliance officers usually issue warnings and then VERY expensive tickets to those not in compliance with Big Brother?

Hmmm.... sounds like you need to make a few phone calls....

[Guest ktm858]

I agree if the place is a total mess and is a danger but again there she was selecting certain properties making the complaints when actually the vehicles of mine that she complained and took pictures of were 100% legal. We also race dirt bikes and we had a trailer ( owned by the racing series ) that was totally legal sitting there hooked up to a van that was totally legal and she complained about that. The girl that put on a presentation to council also has two abandon cars in her own yard. But anyway the garage is up and we just started putting cars in it last night. Thanks to everyone for their support.

[Reatta Man]

If your town has a noise ordinance (usually says something like no mowers or loud work before 7:00 or 7:30 ) be sure to open the doors and turn on the stereo and start a few cars at 7:01 or 7:31....just to say 'hi, neighbor!'

[Guest ktm858]

The neighbors cant get over how the garage looks. It actually kind of adds to the neighborhood and makes it look better. I have had a few people stop when they were walking and ask if we were dealers ect. I informed them that we were private collectors who love cars and that it was our hobby. They were sort of happy to see some of the cars and walked away smiling.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

ktm, glad everything worked out. The pics of the garage [excuse me, storage building] are impressive. Now, how about pictures of the "stored" items.

Ben

[Guest ktm858]

I tried to post some of the pictures but an error message came up so here is my web page with pictures of the cars on it.

Sipko Antique Vehicles - Home

[bhclark]

Both of your Model Ts look great, but that '65 caddy flower car really caught my eye!

What a great collection!

[Guest ktm858]

Thanks, my father was thinking about selling the flower car but I think he changed his mind. We used to have mostly Cadillacs but now we branched out to other makes.

[Guest Jacques Matz]

Hello, I am just going through the process of requesting a variance but the board denied it based on the fact that was a self imposed hardship - did you fill a area variance too? How did you describe the hardship? Tks, jack

[Guest 1hooligan]

It depends on your couny, city ordinances. If you have any requirements that makes it illegal to store your autos or parts outside, that have been effected after the purchase of your property.....bingo. Also, it depends if your and intown or rural, there are all sorts of exceptions under ag/farm barn. Suggest you drop in or go on line to see what exceptions are allowed, then configure your application (ie, stretch the truth), and reapply. Try to get letters from your adjoining neighbors if possible in support. Good luck. Pat

[Guest Jacques Matz]

Thank you - will go on line to figure out what is the best way ahead and will reapply!