Roger Zimmermann Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 The first idea was to form the panels on that buck. As I have no experience I may form the panels separately and use that buck for reference. I will try with the roof if my first idea is practicable. The material I will use is either soft brass or copper, .5 mm thick (.02"). Probably the first panel I will do is...the roof because it's a rather large surface with a regular shape. And, like the original stamping, the sail panels will be done separately for 2 reasons: to have less waste and for ease of construction.Honestly, to make a body with polyester would be much easier, especially if the mold is rather accurate. However, I intend to do it with metal; other can do it, I should be able too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 By looking at the real car's picture I published as well as other photos, I modified the rear. The bulge from the trunk lid was too wide; the inner side of the "fins" too. I will anyway compare the buck to the real car when I have the opportunity and, of course, before I'm doing any panel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landman Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 The first idea was to form the panels on that buck. As I have no experience I may form the panels separately and use that buck for reference. I will try with the roof if my first idea is practicable. The material I will use is either soft brass or copper, .5 mm thick (.02"). Probably the first panel I will do is...the roof because it's a rather large surface with a regular shape. And, like the original stamping, the sail panels will be done separately for 2 reasons: to have less waste and for ease of construction.Honestly, to make a body with polyester would be much easier, especially if the mold is rather accurate. However, I intend to do it with metal; other can do it, I should be able too...Roger, how did you do the Toronado? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Pat, the Toronado and Avanti bodies were both made with polyester; with one small exception: the trunk lid and the panels in front and rear of the hood of the Toronado were made with brass. The positive form was for both cars a crude plaster form necessitating a lot of corrections on the final panels. There are also pits and all sort of problems to have a decent surface for painting. The assembly of hinges or other elements is also not quite easy with polyester. I should not have that kind of difficulties with metal panels. Time will tell! Edited August 1, 2013 by Roger Zimmermann (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) Saturday, I went to the man owning 4 Mark II with the buck to compare the shape. I was well inspired to do it: I saw many errors, some minors some not so: the hood and trunk lid were too square; the radii are much larger than what I did.During the winter I could not begin the work because it was too cold in my store room; now, it's almost 30°C in my flat! I'm glad that kind of work is almost over.It would be cooler in the store room, about 22°C, but I cannot move the PC to see all the pictures I have on it, as well as the documents I am refering to...To illustrate my comments, I'm adding two pictures (doing that let me cool down! from the back. The passenger side has been reworked; the modifications are less apparent than in reality. The picture from above is showing a disrupted line on the left side (to be reworked) when the RH side has a continuous line. That kind of details are hard to see on pictures; once I know that, some picture's reflections (from a real car) are now totally understandable Edited August 5, 2013 by Roger Zimmermann comments and pictures added (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 Yesterday, I began with the roof. I had the impression that it would be an easy part, ideal to gather experience, even if, when finished, it cannot be used immediately.Easy? well, not at all. I tried to form the curves with the method described by Gerald Wingrove after I did a small tool by crimping the edges. Well, probably my brass did not read that book because once the crimps were flattened, I had almost no curve. After trying several times, I came to my old method: cutting slices, do the shape and silver solder the cut. According to somebody from a modelling forum, I probably used the wrong material. In his book, Gerald is using copper, much softer than the mid-hard brass I have.Finally, I got a roof as you can see. It's far away from finished; I will spend some more hours on it and, if I'm not pleased, I will do another one with either soft brass or copper. If I'm doing another one with one of these metals, I will probably have to reinforce the roof.On the picture, the back of the roof is crimped; maybe I will get some good results as the curve to be get is light. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 The more I attempted to correct the shape of the roof, the more he was OUT of shape! Finally, I destroyed it by cutting in 3 pieces. Soft brass and copper have been ordered; I should get it this week. I was probably overconfident that I could do it in one piece...In between, I did the "teeth" from the grille and the lip for the hood. For those who don't know exactly from which parts I'm speaking, a real car is shown:And the parts: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landman Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 That's real car? I thought you had finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 That's real car? I thought you had finished.You, joking guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 (edited) Roger, when you finish this one, you should go on vacation here:Masterpieces in Scale: The 24th GSL International Model Car Championship - The Daily Drive | Consumer Guide® The Daily Drive | Consumer Guide® Edited August 16, 2013 by Smartin (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 George, when you finish this one, you should go on vacation here:Who is George?If it's means to be me, please remember that when this one will be ready, I will probably be about 74-75 at the pace the construction is going. Will I have the energy to begin another one? Only the time will tell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I have no idea why I typed that name...must have been thinking of someone else at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 After the downfall with the first attempt, I got new material: soft brass and copper. Honestly, I don't see much difference between the soft and half-hard brass...As I have now a large quantity of soft brass, I will use it for the roof and almost flat panels. Trunk lid and hood will certainly be done with copper: once annealed, the copper is soft like dry leather...Yesterday, I did a sample curve at the roof's rear; now it's serious. It's still not easy, but at least I'm satisfied with the first compound curve.The sail panels will be silver soldered to the roof's halves, before both halves will be soft soldered.I will modify the wood buck to allow a flange to be formed at the windshield and rear window; this will add some rigidity to the roof and be a guide for the inner structure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I have no idea why I typed that name...must have been thinking of someone else at the time. George Zimmerman was in the news every day for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Who is George?If it's means to be me, please remember that when this one will be ready, I will probably be about 74-75 at the pace the construction is going. Will I have the energy to begin another one? Only the time will tell!George Zimmerman is the guy who shot Treyvon Martin..... Edited August 22, 2013 by keiser31 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 George Zimmerman is the guy who shot Trevon Martin.....You're right! Fortunately, I will not have the same publicity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 As somebody told me in another forum, I have the wrong brass. My soft brass is not the "super soft" which I should have. In fact, I did not see a significant difference between the half hard and the soft one I have now when I did the rear roof's shape. It does not matter; I have the impression that I can master the process well enough to have a satisfying result.Yesterday, I did the recess at the rear window; today, I silver soldered both sail panels without disturbing the shape. I can now shape the front of the roof.The other side is almost in the same condition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Once the technique to recess the sheet metal is in the fingers, things are getting rather well. As you can see, both halves are finished; they are following the buck rather well. To check it is easy: when the sheet metal is on the buck, small blows with a small hammer will sound like blowing on the wood if the metal is touching the wood. The sound is much different if there is a void between the wood and the metal. I have a good sound on about 75% of the surface; the space between metal and wood on the remaining 25% is probably about 0.1 to 0.2 mm which is acceptable for me. Small imperfections can be filed away; this is the reason why I choose a 0.4 mm brass.Now, I have to trim both halved and soft solder them together. The trimming for the side windows will be done at a later date. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 No, you are not seeing double! There are effectively two roofs on the picture. Doing another body just for fun? No! 3 days ago, I soft soldered both halves from the indeed second roof. Took a very thin strip of brass (0.1mm) which was probably an error; maybe a thicker material would have caused less trouble. Before soldering, the roof was almost perfect. After soldering, I had all kind of deformations...Not very important, but enough to be a concern. Then I discovered that my soldering may not be perfect and, with the inevitable flexion of the roof during construction, a crack may develop at the joint. If it's during the construction it can be easily repaired but, if it happens after the car is painted...No good at all!Therefore, I decided to do a third roof as I have some experience! Doing it in one piece is more difficult as in two pieces as there are four sides which must be cared for instead of 3. The result is not too bad, with one exception: the roof is more bulbous than the wood buck, about 1 mm. By chance, the roof is not looking like the one from a VW Beetle! There are certainly techniques to bring the excess metal down (it was what I tried with the first one), but I will do nothing as the buck may be itself too flat...The "good" roof is in foreground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 The last few days I trimmed the apertures for side windows, windshield and back window. I then discovered that my wood buck was not square! It was not a lot, but enough to see that the windshield aperture was not correct. And, of course, the rear window was also affected...I removed a little bit of wood on one side (RH in front, LH at the back) to correct the issue. The roof may be a tad too short after the correction (probably 1 mm - 0.04"), but can be compensated by the rain gutter at the front. I soldered the gutter to the roof; normally it represents a "U" but the distance is so tight (0.5 mm), it could create problems when finishing the roof. Anyway, the chrome molding will be correctly shaped and will not snap on the roof like the real ones are attached.I'm now preparing the inner structure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Why temporary? Because, as you can see, most internal structure is done. This structure has positive effect on the strength of the roof and it's the foundation for the upper trim. However, to attach them to the roof I should first do them, which is way too early. The side moldings are attached from the side rail but the front and rear window moldings are attached by screws through the structure. When I'm so far, I will add what is needed to attach them. The long legs at the rear will be soldered to the rear wheelhouses. They will be trimmed as needed.I will now do either doors or rear quarters. The later parts would make more sense than the doors because I could at least attach them to the floor. But the doors are easier do do... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 Finally, I decided for an easy part, the doors. Easy? Not so! I expected to do the outer skin in one piece but the peak at the top is the difficulty. To have it at the right place is difficult; the one I did was not where I expected...Furthermore, my line was not straight like the original door. Therefore, I cut the door at the peak and planned to silver solder the remaining. As the soldering can hardly be done without some trick, I soldered first a channel under the skin on which the missing piece could be soldered, without deformation if possible.Because of the channel, I cannot check or correct the shape of the door's skin on the wood buck. To overcome the problem, I did a negative mold with polyester and fiberglass. As it's thick enough, I can also make some correction to the skin while it's placed on the polyester mold.The picture is showing the first door's skin and the polyester mold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Did the same for the other side. As I'm presently away from home, the doors are waiting my return... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted September 25, 2013 Author Share Posted September 25, 2013 (edited) After our nice autumn vacation, I could continue with the model. I intend to use the same procedure than with the doors: the shape of the rear fenders and trunk lid will be checked against the negative mold made with polyester and not on the wood for various reasons. Before I could play with polyester and fiberglass, I modified again the hood and trunk lid, because, when I went to see my friend, owner of 4 Mark II, I noticed that both elements still had too sharp lines. The first task at my return was to perform the changes. On the attached picture there is a dark spot on the trunk lid: I noticed with horror that this spot was 1 mm below the "right" dimension, an error I did at the beginning of the wood work; the correction was done with bondo. As we enjoy for a few days a nice weather in Switzerland, there was the opportunity to "cast" the negative mold as I'm doing that job outside to avoid the bad smell in the flat.I screwed certainly with the hardener twice: I could not finish to saturating the fiber glass with the polyester before it began to set. To avoid the waste, I covered what was done with that jelly; I had never such an ugly mold! As it's just a tool, this is not so important... Edited September 25, 2013 by Roger Zimmermann comment added (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ole buick Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Mr. Zimmermann,I worked at a power production company in the USA before retireing. We had several BBC/ABB Turbines and Generators. The engineering and machine talent from Switzerland always amazed me. I just saw this post this morning and could not put it down. It is a pleasure to see someone with your skills working through a project, and is very generous of you to share this with all of us.Thank You,Donnie Wallace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 Thank you Donald! It seems that Swiss talents is the reason why we have such a high living standard v/s the other surrounding countries. We don't have oil but ideas!BBC/ABB has a good reputation worldwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Are the roof and doors not serious? In one sense yes, but without the structure to attach them, they are just decoration...That structure will begin with the rear fenders; eventually, they will get soldered to the floor. However, I still have a long way to go before that.The picture is showing the beginning of the rear fender; the long bars are the dies to form the crease. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 Up to now the progress is satisfying. To locate the rear fender, I did three 1 mm holes through excess sheet metal and wood. Now, the fender is conveniently located and I could press the bulge under the rear lamp. The wheel opening is pre-formed; to continue, I must first do the recess for the lower rocker molding. I have to consider the thickness of the sheet metal and compensate by modifying the wood form (one more time) otherwise, the rocker molding will be located too low.To form the flange at the wheel opening I had to reinforce the wood with a thin strip of brass: during a test with a small strip of brass, I noticed that the wood is not strong enough and let go, giving a too large radius. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Art Anderson Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) Roger!Nice work, in the finest tradition of the likes of Michel Conti, Manuel Olive' and Gerald Wingrove. I will be watching your scale model build of the Continental Mk II with interest indeed. Art Anderson Edited September 29, 2013 by Art Anderson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ole buick Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) Mr. Zimmermann,I thought you might enjoy seeing what was going on in your country many decades ago. I hope that you enjoy .If this does not work please let me know so I resend this to you, it is amazing.ThanksDonnie Wallacehttp://www.chonday.com/Videos/the-writer-automationJust go on to my next post, this address is wrong. Sorry Edited September 30, 2013 by ole buick (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ole buick Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Sorry, I put in an i that it should not have. Tryhttp://www.chonday.com/Videos/the-writer-automaton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Thank you Donald for that amazing video. That boy is well known but I probably never saw it so detailed. In comparison, my model is a crude toy!Anyway, the outer shell for the rear fender is done; I'm pleased with the result. I will now probably do the RH part before I'm doing the part which is going from the rear fender's peak to the trunk aperture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ole buick Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Mr. Zimmermann,You are certainly as humble as you are talented. Your models are just as impressive as the boy. I was in hope that you would enjoy the video as I did. Donnie Wallace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Roger!Nice work, in the finest tradition of the likes of Michel Conti, Manuel Olive' and Gerald Wingrove. I will be watching your scale model build of the Continental Mk II with interest indeed. Art AndersonThanks Art! I don't know if I can be compared to the three gentlemen (the first two are probably no more in "business"); anyway, I'm trying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cstanley-gs Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Still loving this Roger! Keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lordairgtar Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Roger!Nice work, in the finest tradition of the likes of Michel Conti, Manuel Olive' and Gerald Wingrove. I will be watching your scale model build of the Continental Mk II with interest indeed. Art AndersonYou ain't so bad yerself with that Knox auto you made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 The second fender took only 2 afternoons to be shaped. However, the rear fenders are far from ready. The small thing you see behind each fender is the "tongue" between rear bumper and lamp. But how to assemble that on the fender? To have some starting point, I silver soldered the lower braces and the upper shield on which the lamp will be attached. But I'm still unsure if the tongue is correctly positioned. To have some mechanical strength at the rear, the assemblies will be also silver soldered to the fenders, therefore no error is allowed.To get it right, I will now trim the rear fenders at the "B" pillar, and add it. This will allow me to position and temporary attach the fenders on the floor. Then, I will be able to check the position of the tongues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 The aperture at the "B" pillar was trimmed and a partial pillar was silver soldered to the fenders. As the recess for the rocker molding is already done on the floor, this part, in front of the rear wheel, was removed too. I did it at first because I needed the line for alignment purpose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 To align the body panels in a decent way, something else as the actual model's frame was needed. With profiles I will never use on a model, I did a sub-frame attached on the base plate I already had for the wood form.I should have done this too earlier as I found some dimension's deviations, fortunately not bad ones.The last picture is showing the floor with the rear fenders on. Don't be fooled by the picture: the rear fenders are just attached with one small screw at the incomplete "B" pillar and are way off alignment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 After the filler between the rear bumper and lamps was silver soldered, I spent the last few days doing the trunk floor extensions These are the sheet metal parts attaching the rear fender's to the trunk's floor. The difficulty here is to get some proper alignment from the fenders in relation to the floor, and adapt those extensions without disturbing the rear fenders position. By doing a final check this morning, I noticed that no dimension at the rear was correct until I saw that the back of the fenders were too much inboard. Fortunately, brass is rather soft and the shape could be corrected without creating a mess. Both bars between fenders are a temporary help for the alignment; everything is held with screws for the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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