GM Billboards for Real Men!

[R W Burgess]

The billboard statements below are really depressing, considering the current situation with American automobile manufacturers.

Sadly, I couldn't include the pictures accompanying these bill boards from GM!

<O:p</O:p

They don’t write songs about Volvos

We gave it wings and it flew

In This Town Bodywork doesn’t mean Plastic Surgery

The only carbs you cared about were under the hood!

The Original American Idol

The Grandaddy of Bling

It was the roar of your engine, not the ring of your cell phone.

Proof that your parents were actually cool once

Not everyone wants a car with a Bud Vase on the Dash! (I like this one!)

Will people ever line the street to look at what you drove?

Remember when your cupholder sat next to you and wore a poodle skirt?

It ran on gasoline, but it was still electric!

Other cities have art fairs.

One 50 year old that looks good with a spare tire (’57 Continental kit)

Remember the wind blowing through your hair? Remember hair?

As a matter of fact, I do own the road!

Our DNA can beat up your DNA!

It comes in 17 colors, all of them red, white, and blue. (This one saddens me!)

When heads did the spinning and rims stood still!

When cool was measured in cubic inches!

Wayne

Edited July 7, 2009 by R W Burgess
Added expression! (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

Are these new? Some of them almost sound like insults, most sound defeated.:confused:

[R W Burgess]

Dave, each statement was part of a picture of past historic cars, all GM. I would have posted the pictures themsleves, but, alas, that wouldn't be legal. I would also have forwarded the e-mail to you that contained them, but again, alas, I dumped them last night before turning in. Sorry!

Wayne

[rocketraider]

They're nothing the Oldsmobile community wasn't dealing with in the 80s.

"This is not your father's Oldsmobile!"

It sure wasn't.

Even "Demand better" came across as a tenuous compliment. Were we supposed to demand a better car than the competition and get it in an Oldsmobile, or demand better from Oldsmobile/GM itself?

It's no wonder they have trouble selling their product. They don't know how to market it, and that has been true of most all car companies since the early 70s. Cadillac and Nissan did penance with the "Rock and Roll" and "Barbie/Ken/GI Joe" ads, but not much else has shown up that made you want to go out and buy a car, for at least 20 years.

[R W Burgess]

Rocket, the problem with marketing is that they have nothing of interest to market. Someone said earlier, it's like buying an appliance. When's the last time your neighbors came over to see your new refrigerator?

Some of us still remember the excitement of visiting the neighbor who had just bought that shiny new red/yellow/green car. It stood out. It made everyone envy them.

Engine? I'm reminded each time I start my '05 GMC pickup. It doesn't even sound like a Chevy engine. My '65 Corvette, on the other hand, wakes up the neighborhood, when I crank it over.

What sorry dull cars we are stuck with, pitiful. It's depressing to even write about.

Oh, Wait! They put in a "Bud Vase" to try to take your mind off of it. :eek:

Wayne

[Jim Rohn]

those are the sayings from the actual Woodward Dream Cruise billboards / posters

they ran a week or two before the Dream Cruise around the Detroit area and on Woodward Avenue

This is from 2007:

they did not have ANY in 2008 ...

But Ford had this:

I doubt GM/Chevy will have any this year either

I think they are cool IMHO

Edited July 17, 2009 by Jim Rohn (see edit history)

[Reatta Man]

Some of us still remember the excitement of visiting the neighbor who had just bought that shiny new red/yellow/green car. It stood out. It made everyone envy them.

What sorry dull cars we are stuck with, pitiful. It's depressing to even write about.

Wayne

Wayne,

When I read the Buick Lucerne brochure and saw how they were bragging about how the pieces on the dashboard were only 0.5MM apart, I knew we had gone all the way down hill. It reminded me of when Bob Lutz, on a CNN program I think, was bragging about how the body panels on a Buick had the closest fit of any Buick they ever built. It sure is a long, long way from the 1970 Buick campaign that used the Doors song, "C'mon baby, light my fire."

I don't think anyone ever went to a Buick showroom to measure the gaps in millimeters between the body panels.

As for the sound the engine makes, well, at least it doesn't hummmmmmmm.

Joe

[Shop Rat]

There is a BMW billboard in Charleston that I like.

"This won't help with your fear of flying."

[R W Burgess]

Relating to this thread, I just got my latest "AutoWeek" magazine today. Recently they went from a weekly to a bi-weekly magazine. I wasn't happy about that, but lately I have been thinking more of letting my subscription expire.

Then, today, as I was thumbing through the magazine, I realized that it's not as much the magazine I'm disappointed in, it's the cars. There's not a darn thing in the magazine that I'd consider buying. Maybe the AACA meets and tours has gotten me so wrapped up in older historical cars that has caused this feeling of mine. At any rate, since I'm in a writing mood, I'll drop a line to the editor and tell him that I'm sorry, but through no fault of his I'll be dropping their subscription when it runs out in December.

Sad times huh? It's almost the same situation mentioned earlier in this thread......they're not building anything anyone wants or can afford anymore.

Wayne

[Guest Tarheel]

Wayne be patient for a couple of months- you and the American auto buying public "just didn't know what you wanted".

Government Motors new executives , with the advice of Obama's auto czar team, announced today that they are going to please you now with all the cars you should be buying.

[Jim Rohn]

Wayne be patient for a couple of months- you and the American auto buying public "just didn't know what you wanted".

Government Motors new executives , with the advice of Obama's auto czar team, announced today that they are going to please you now with all the cars you should be buying.

LOL

that is a good one

too funny

maybe they can build a designer version that Mrs Obommy would buy with HER money LOL

[jdome]

Wayne be patient for a couple of months- you and the American auto buying public "just didn't know what you wanted".

Government Motors new executives , with the advice of Obama's auto czar team, announced today that they are going to please you now with all the cars you should be buying.

I doubt that will happen. After a couple more months of lack of sales due to consumers with no jobs & no money, the administration will proclaim that they underestimated how bad GM cars are because of (insert canned George Bush fault here), and that the new Gov't Motors will require a second bail out/stimulus package. After they receive another $100Billion bailout, the administration will replace the newly appointed GM CEO and force them to go BK again. Oboma will then appoint a new Car Czar- Car Czar to oversee the present car czar and that will fix everything......until the next bailout/bankruptcy to be blamed on bush and of course the need to spend another $trillion on pork.

[rocketraider]

Why does Woody Guthrie suddenly come to mind?

"Let's go riding in the car czar, let's go riding in the car czar..."

And we'll all be driving Tatras and Trabants, or whatever computer generated innocuous inoffensive name they come up with for it.

[LINC400]

I have a hard time believing that the new GM and Chrysler will be developing anything new other than 4 door, high mileage appliances in the next few years. Not the type of car that is going to get me to part with my hard earned cash.

[Steve Braverman]

And we'll all be driving Tatras and Trabants, or whatever computer generated innocuous inoffensive name they come up with for it.

I'll take a Tatra please

[jdome]

I have a hard time believing that the new GM and Chrysler will be developing anything new other than 4 door, high mileage appliances in the next few years. Not the type of car that is going to get me to part with my hard earned cash.

You certainly won't see much excitement from Chrysler anymore. The Viper is gone or soon will be. They plan to end all truck & SUV production. I suspect that as present model life expire (or sooner), they will be building or importing only Fiat type scooter powered cars and the best performance you can squeeze out of 2 liters in a 1 ton car.

GM has a better chance to continue building cars that Americans want if the new owners stay out of product development. I realize that a lot of people believe that The big 3 don't make vehicles that Americans want but nothing could be further from the truth. I won't argue with anyone that GM in particular & the B3 in general have lost market share over the past 10 or 20 years. But the B3 still account for about half the product sales in the US and some 40+% world wide (including foreign GM & Ford brand names). I think that is impressive when you consider the tariff's applied to US exports into some countries and the anti-buy American sentiment in some foreign markets as well as here in the US. Consider the explosion in competition in the past decade or so. THere are now about a dozen Asian makes marketed in the US and 6 or more European makes with a strong US presents. Makes like Nissan (Datson), VW, and and to some degree Subaru, recovered from poor reputations. Some makes like Kia, Hyundai, & Suzuki entered our market in the 90's with no reputation to overcome. Kia is now running a commercial bragging about the fact that they entered the US market 15 years ago with 1 model and now they sell a full line of 17 models including several SUV's & "full size" sedans; the kind of cars that Detroit builds that no one wants. Even Porsche builds an SUV that Americans don't want? Honda & Toyota now emulate Detroit's products with not only a variety of SUV but they also up-sized there Civic & Accura, corona & Corola bread & butter products to match Detroit sizes. Nissan, Honda & Toyota build full size PU's; a product class that was once exclusive to the B3 just a few years ago. Ford & GM have not faced this much competition since before WWII or maybe before the 1929 stock market crash that eliminated a lot of competitors.

If the cap & trade thing passes the Senate gasoline will soon exceed $4/gal. by Gov't intent. GM & all manufacturers will have to sell more hybrids at least as an intermediate product bridge to some yet to be invented next generation fuel or future motivation mechanism. As was mentioned on another thread, A "high performance" hybrid can be designed. I doubt the Accord is it if it is compared to GM's 3.1. I own a GM 3.1 in a full size Pontiac GP and even though it performs pretty good, it is not considered as a "high performance" engine by anyone including GM. That is what the 3.8 & 3.8 turbo is for and the combined HP of the Accord elect. & gas motors are about 100HP shy of anyone's idea of hi performance. HP is HP & torque is torque whether were talking gas or electric. The torque & power curves of elect motors, however are more of a sharp straight line which gives an electric an advantage off the line because it will develop power at a quicker rate but then flatten out. That being said, the electrics in hybrids are only about 20-40HP. The rapid power development of the electric in a hybrid gives a 3 x mileage boost in stop & go city traffic but contributes only a small percentage increase to highway mileage.

My biggest objection to hybrids, if I can go out on a limb, is that it will always cost less to build a car with just a 3.1 L gas than to build the same model as a hybrid with a 1.5L gas plus electric motor, batteries, and all of the necessary accouterments to make it happen, and to pay for long term maintenance. I believe the price difference in Accord models is about $4500. The cost of gas may make that difference "affordable." When the Gov't tells us they want to make green technology more affordable, that is code for making old technology too expensive.

[Reatta Man]

jdome,

Man, there are so many people on here with their own agendas, get your fire protection suit on--you are likely to get FLAMED!

But just remember:

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”

- John Adams

[Dave@Moon]

They plan to end all truck & SUV production. I suspect that as present model life expire (or sooner), they will be building or importing only Fiat type scooter powered cars and the best performance you can squeeze out of 2 liters in a 1 ton car.

Why would anyone aquire the Jeep brand and end all SUV and truck production? The stated plans (which of course could change) are 180 degrees different than this.

Here's what they say:

Chrysler Outlines Future Product Plans Resulting From Fiat Agreement - Car News - Car and Driver

My biggest objection to hybrids, if I can go out on a limb, is that it will always cost less to build a car with just a 3.1 L gas than to build the same model as a hybrid with a 1.5L gas plus electric motor, batteries, and all of the necessary accouterments to make it happen, and to pay for long term maintenance.

Over the last 10 years it has thus far been born out that hybrid cars actually require less maintenance than conventional cars. A hybrid system saves on engine and (especially) brake wear, and unless abused, modified, or physically damaged it is essentially maintenance free for the lifetime of almost any vehicle. Even in taxi use hybrid systems in general never break or fail.

Also economies of scale being what they are hybrid systems are costing less and less, to the point that you'd have to be pretty much a dolt behind the wheel to not realize an overall long term cost savings in fuel driving (today's) hybrids (in most, but not all cases). The most direct comparison is a Civic Hybrid vs. the standard car, but in comparisons with the Insight and Prius (where the cost advantages of developing a lighweight body that takes advantage of the system's smaller dimensions are employed) those savings come back to the owner before the warranty is up. I know the over $3500 I've saved thus far in my Prius vs. an equivalent Camry over 4 years has me well in the black on that purchase.:cool:

And knowing that that $3500 came out of a middle eastern pocket, and at the same time didn't get burnt up into the atmosphere as dozens of tons of CO2, makes that all the more satisfying.:cool::cool::cool: I will never buy an old-fashioned conventional car again (unless I slap antique plates on it).

Edited July 14, 2009 by Dave@Moon
can't type! (see edit history)

[jdome]

Dave, Jeep will stay (for now) but that article about Chrysler you referenced is old news and was written in Feb. , before the sale to Fiat was finalized. Even the local congressman was promised by Chrysler that all their plants in his district & Northern Ohio would remain open. After Fiat took over, they promptly announced the closing of all the plants Chrysler said would stay open. Seems everyone was talking to the wrong people & should have been talking to Fiat. Congressman Boccieri went crying back to Washington with his tail between his legs but somehow managed to get some kind of promise to keep one open. Most likely Fiat will shut one down somewhere else. Anything published pre-sale is obsolete.

Lots of conventional cars can go over 100K miles without any reliability problems. I don[t see how adding an electric "booster motor" would make it magically more reliable. I get the mileage/cost recovery thing but one thing we didn't talk about is when my car gets to be 4 years old I can go down to the local K-Mart and buy a new battery for $49. What is the replacement cost of your dealer item batteries? I'm in a business that uses a lot of Ni-MH & Li-ION batteries and they typically last 30 - 40 months.

[Dave@Moon]

What is the replacement cost of your dealer item batteries?

Zero. They never need replacing. The system has been designed to never stress the batteries enough to exhaust them. It was more than eight years with the car on the market before the first battery was ever replaced in any Prius. I understand that car had at least 300,000 miles. As a hybrid driver you are vastly more likely to need a new engine block than you are a new battery.

If you ever do need to replace the hybrid battery they're commonly available used for a few hundred dollars.

The electric motor supplements the gas engine in moving the car, so the engine is not stressed as much as an old fashioned car. The hybrid system saves even more on brake wear due to the regenerative braking feature (typical brake pad and shoe life on a Prius is 125,000-150,000 miles, other hybrids have similar performance). The hybrid system that does this does it without regular maintenance, and with a virtually no repairs in the vast majority of cases.:cool:

Like I said, I'll never go back to conventional cars.

[MCHinson]

Dave, I don't know much about the issue, and don't want to be argumentative, but your quote of "they're commonly available used for a few hundred dollars" intrigues me.

Where do these commonly available used batteries come from? Are other parts of the cars totally wearing out before the batteries, are hybrids wrecked and totaled at an abnormally high rate, or is there some other explanation?

Thanks.

[Guest Bob Call]

The argument that Detroit isn't building the cars the consumers want is a bunch of BS. Check Ford sales and in particular the Mustang. The new Camero is selling as fast as GM ban build them. Build a real American car and real Americans will buy them.

[Dave@Moon]

Where do these commonly available used batteries come from? Are other parts of the cars totally wearing out before the batteries, are hybrids wrecked and totaled at an abnormally high rate, or is there some other explanation?

There are about 2 dozen or so available on eBay at any one time. There are 25 currently on eBay as I type this, roughly divided equally between 1st and 2nd generation cars.

I'm sure all of them have been posted by junk yards. Almost all of the used batteries come from wrecked cars. There are nearly a million Priuses on the road now, so the supply of everything for them isn't a problem any more.

[MCHinson]

OK, Thanks. The "commonly available" term made me think that every dealer had a supply around the shop, which did not seem to make sense to me.

[LINC400]

The argument that Detroit isn't building the cars the consumers want is a bunch of BS. Check Ford sales and in particular the Mustang. The new Camero is selling as fast as GM ban build them. Build a real American car and real Americans will buy them.

Yes, but the problem is they didn't have the Camaro until now. There has been not much of interest for the last few years. The Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang are the only interesting things coming out of Detroit. And I am not even a fan of muscle cars. However, the foreign companies have absolutely nothing of interest to me and never have.

[Guest Skyking]

There are nearly a million Priuses on the road now, so the supply of everything for them isn't a problem any more.

Dave, twenty years from now, where are all those batteries going to end up? Maybe secretly in some landfill :eek:

[Dave@Moon]

Dave, twenty years from now, where are all those batteries going to end up? Maybe secretly in some landfill :eek:

If they did there'd be no big deal. There isn't a toxic heavy metal or any other hazardous material among them, except maybe as a contaminant in the steel casings.

However it would take a mass stupidity of biblical proportions for that to happen. They're worth about $200 each just in recycle value.

BTW, I'm sure I've posted that information here at least 6 or 7 times since 2004. You might ask yourself why you didn't know that already, as it is such a well known fact among automotive cognoscenti, of which we are supposed to be members.

[Dave@Moon]

Yes, but the problem is they didn't have the Camaro until now. There has been not much of interest for the last few years. The Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang are the only interesting things coming out of Detroit. And I am not even a fan of muscle cars. However, the foreign companies have absolutely nothing of interest to me and never have.

Yet no one takes the next step in this logic train. Ever.

If Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Subaru/etc. have been eating Detroit's lunch for 3 decades with such boring cars (and they have been, and they are), then are armies of Camaros really what's needed?

If you want to see the future in American cars, look at the very worthy offerings of the Chevy Malibu (2008 and up only) and the Ford Fusion (all, but especially the 2010 and up). There is your hope for the future, there is the car you can build a company on, and there is where the excitement is and should be. Efforts beyond the building of economical and bulletproof cars are pretty much wasted at this point.

(And it's no coincidence that both the Fusion and Malibu are the standard-bearer hybrids for their respective companies, the Fusion being particularly exceptional in this respect!:cool:)

Look at Chrysler. Great Charger 3 years ago, now you can't give it away. Great Chrysler 300 3 years ago, now you can't give it away. Great Challenger now, 3 years from now,.....? Meanwhile the Avenger and Sebring are best known as Dept. of Defense recruitment officer cars, at least that's the only place I reliably see them.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Dave@Moon (see edit history)

[LINC400]

Yet no one takes the next step in this logic train. Ever.

If Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Subaru/etc. have been eating Detroit's lunch for 3 decades with such boring cars (and they have been, and they are), then are armies of Camaros really what's needed?

If you want to see the future in American cars, look at the very worthy offerings of the Chevy Malibu (2008 and up only) and the Ford Fusion (all, but especially the 2010 and up). There is your hope for the future, there is the car you can build a company on, and there is where the excitement is and should be. Efforts beyond the building of economical and bulletproof cars are pretty much wasted at this point.

(And it's no coincidence that both the Fusion and Malibu are the standard-bearer hybrids for their respective companies, the Fusion being particularly exceptional in this respect!:cool:)

Look at Chrysler. Great Charger 3 years ago, now you can't give it away. Great Chrysler 300 3 years ago, now you can't give it away. Great Challenger now, 3 years from now,.....? Meanwhile the Avenger and Sebring are best known as Dept. of Defense recruitment officer cars, at least that's the only place I reliably see them.

The reason foreign car companies are taking a large chunk of business away from Detroit is not because of spectacular vehicles. Why are all foreign car companies now selling SUV's? Those are what's wrong with Detroit. So why did all the foreign car companies copy them? Look at any message board about the Big 3 bailout. You will see all the clueless idiots spouting all kinds of anti-Amercian BS. My Chevy got a flat tire after I ran over a nail and Chevy wouldn't give me a new one, so now it's nothing but Hondas for me, blah blah, blah. I had no clue about all this anti-American sentiment until I stared reading some of these. People get these ideas from the media and other clueless idiots. The truth is, there have been good and bad cars from both foreign and domestic mfrs. But the "in" thing to do is blast all the domestics and rave about the foreign companies. So that is what everyone does. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if half of these people had no clue about who even made their car. A few weeks ago, I had this guy telling me about how he had one of the early "good" Saturns, before GM took them over and ruined them. This is the kind of idiot spouting anti-GM stuff. And people that know nothing about cars will listen and repeat what he says. A couple neighbors stated they would never buy an American car. They love their foreign cars. One has a Saab. The other has a Land Rover and a Jaguar. No they are not pre GM and Ford cars either.

Years ago the Big 3 knew how to build cars to draw people into the showrooms. And then they put some of those ideas into the mainstream cars. Now everyone just copies everyone else.

If I am going to spend money on a new car, I want something with power, style, and some excitement. Sorry, but a Prius, Fusion or Malibu do not meet my description of that. There is no way I am driving a boring four door egg or box. I don't care if it gets 100 miles to the gallon and costs $3 a year to maintain. If I don't like it, I'm not buying it. If I'm buying an furnace, I'm concerned about effiency, and fuel savings, and low maintenance. When I buy a car, I want something that screams look at me, enjoy me, floor me, not I have the highest mpg and look like a toaster.

The Chrysler 300 and Charger did draw people into showrooms and sell. But how exciting are they supposed to be 6 years later with no changes? That is the problem with Detroit. Ford manages to keep excitement going with the Mustang. However, their problem is that they think the Mustang is the only car that should have any type of high performance engine. The complaints I hear from people that like American cars is that they are not stylish and interesting like they used to be. Not that they do not look enough like a Honda or get too low of gas mileage. If the Big 3 want to sell cars, they need to build cars that are exciting and desirable. There are plenty of foreign high mileage appliances. The Big 3 need to build cars like the Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang. Cars that the foreign mfrs can't build. And then translate some of that perfomance and excitement into their mainstream cars.

How about something as simple as color for excitement. My 1976 Lincoln came in 26 colors with almost as many interior combinations. And it was profitable. Yet now you are lucky to have a choice of more than 5 colors with an interior of gray or black (tan is getting hard to find). 26 colors might be excessive, but how about offering a red or blue interior? I don't think offering a few colors is going to put anyone out of business.

The last auto show that I went to, I listened to the critics gushing over the latest blandmobiles. My comment was, if there were no old cars with style and personality, only new cars, I would have no interest in cars at all.

From 1950-1979, I can think of dozens of cars that I would love to own from each year. From 1990 to present, I am lucky if I can think of 5 that would be ok from each decade.

Edited July 17, 2009 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

A few weeks ago, I had this guy telling me about how he had one of the early "good" Saturns, before GM took them over and ruined them. This is the kind of idiot spouting anti-GM stuff. And people that know nothing about cars will listen and repeat what he says.

That might have been me. The first Saturns (S-Series) did not mention GM anywhere on them. They had Delco batteries, and the plugs (if you pulled them to read the markings) were ACs. NOTHING else on the car said "GM', "General Motors", or any GM trademark (Delco, Packard, Moraine, etc.). Even the owner's manual was 100% GM-free (and written with a great deal of humor!). The Saturn then was a completely unique product that shared nothing of substance with any other GM car. They were also among the most reliable cars you could buy in every survey, the equal of any Honda or Toyota.

I had a 1997 SL2. I was one of my favorite cars, ever. Totally bulletproof.

Once the L-Series and Ion were on the scene, Saturn was just another GM car, sharing platforms and drivetrains with every other "brand". Reliability ratings did a nose dive in every survey from that point on. Those are facts, you can make the "good"/"bad" Saturn determination yourself.

================

The bottom line is people are buying Hondas/Toyotas/Subarus/etc. They're not buying "Big 3" products. And by any measure there's no "excitement factor" to the former that the latter lacks.

You can dress it up any way you want, right or wrong the "foreign" competitors beat GM/Ford/Chrysler with cars that on the surface were measureably more boring. Therefore being boring isn't the problem.

[Jim Rohn]

ummmm

what happened to the ORIGINAL thread about the billboards?

one of the 1st ones that GM/ Chevrolet did:

[Dave@Moon]

That one's my favorite. Apparently no one knew about "59 Volvo" by the Medallions., Dooto Records 446 (1959), written and performed by the same people who did "Buick 59" in 1954.

[Guest Skyking]

Look at any message board about the Big 3 bailout. You will see all the clueless idiots spouting all kinds of anti-Amercian BS. My Chevy got a flat tire after I ran over a nail and Chevy wouldn't give me a new one, so now it's nothing but Hondas for me, blah blah, blah. I had no clue about all this anti-American sentiment until I stared reading some of these. People get these ideas from the media and other clueless idiots. The truth is, there have been good and bad cars from both foreign and domestic mfrs. But the "in" thing to do is blast all the domestics and rave about the foreign companies. So that is what everyone does.

QUOTE]

Linc, like I stated earlier in a post, "have a problem with an American car, it's a piece of junk, have a problem with an import, it's in for service". Most people don't have a clue...............You can see this happening in everything else in our lives, not just cars.:confused:

[Guest Skyking]

I will never buy an old-fashioned conventional car again (unless I slap antique plates on it).

That's funny, didn't you just buy your son a Dodge?????

I guess he thinks different than you............

[LINC400]

That might have been me. The first Saturns (S-Series) did not mention GM anywhere on them. They had Delco batteries, and the plugs (if you pulled them to read the markings) were ACs. NOTHING else on the car said "GM', "General Motors", or any GM trademark (Delco, Packard, Moraine, etc.). Even the owner's manual was 100% GM-free (and written with a great deal of humor!). The Saturn then was a completely unique product that shared nothing of substance with any other GM car. They were also among the most reliable cars you could buy in every survey, the equal of any Honda or Toyota.

I had a 1997 SL2. I was one of my favorite cars, ever. Totally bulletproof.

Once the L-Series and Ion were on the scene, Saturn was just another GM car, sharing platforms and drivetrains with every other "brand". Reliability ratings did a nose dive in every survey from that point on. Those are facts, you can make the "good"/"bad" Saturn determination yourself.

================

The bottom line is people are buying Hondas/Toyotas/Subarus/etc. They're not buying "Big 3" products. And by any measure there's no "excitement factor" to the former that the latter lacks.

You can dress it up any way you want, right or wrong the "foreign" competitors beat GM/Ford/Chrysler with cars that on the surface were measureably more boring. Therefore being boring isn't the problem.

I have no idea whether old Saturns were any better than the newer Saturns and couldn't care less. The early Saturns specifically had no GM badging or anything associated with GM reflected in their literature and advertising because they wanted them to sell to people that bought foreign cars. So they sold quite well to people who bought foreign cars and were clueless about who made it. Now they rave about their wonderful "foreign" Saturn, and condemn GM, who built it. That is the type of clueless idiot that causes problems for the Big 3. Then reporters that normally review movies or charity balls hear about this and report it as fact. Then others read this and believe it to be 100% true fact. That is what causes the anti-American sentiment. Clueless people.

My understanding is that people are not buying ANYTHING, foreign or domestic. I believe Toyota and Hondas sales are down as well as GM and Chrysler. I believe Toyota just surpassed GM as the number one auto maker for the first time in 50 years. Do you know what that means? It means in order to be the number 1 automaker for the last 50 years people had to be buying them. And even at a close number 2, people are obviously still buying them, otherwise they would not be number 2. I think that is pretty impressive considering most GM's sell here, not in Europe or Japan.

Most people buying an Accord or Prius this year will buy it because their old car was getting worn out, they got a really good deal, they were worried about the price of gas. Not because they saw it on the street or at the auto show and thought it was so cool they had to have one. Only a Camaro, Challenger, or Mustang is going to get someone to go out and make an unnecessary purchase in a bad economy because they saw it and just had to have one.

[LINC400]

ummmm

what happened to the ORIGINAL thread about the billboards?

one of the 1st ones that GM/ Chevrolet did:

Very cool. But the problem is they're not writing songs about new Malibus and Cobalts either.

[R W Burgess]

Don't you know "that all the music and the writers died" years ago, when Buddy Holly's plane went down??:cool:

Wayne

[Guest Skyking]

Don't you know "that all the music and the writers died" years ago, when Buddy Holly's plane went down??:cool:

Wayne

Yea Wayne, they went down with the designers..........

[Jim Rohn]

Very cool. But the problem is they're not writing songs about new Malibus and Cobalts either.

rental cars aren't supposed to have songs written about them ...

Hot Rod Lincoln, Nash Metropolitan, GTO, Little Deuce Coupe, all of those cars were not the bread and butter cars, the sedans were

Not aware of any song about a rental car (or bread and butter sedan, UNLESS Paradise under the dashboard Light qualifies, I don't think the song says WHAT kind of car it is ...)

you have to have a mix to appease all aspects of the market

aarrgghhh

got suckered into the off topic

billboards is what this thread is about

[Dave@Moon]

Don't you know "that all the music and the writers died" years ago, when Buddy Holly's plane went down??:cool:

Yeah, but Vern Green wrote "59 Volvo" before "the day the music died".

As for "rental car" songs, there are a few....

"Chevy Van" by Sammy Johns, "'64 Ford" by Phranc, "Beep, Beep" by the Playmates, "Helen Wheels" by Paul McCartney & Wings, "Schlock Rod" by Jan & Dean, "Studebaker Hawk!" by Democratic Underground, "'92 Subaru" by Fountains of Wayne, etc.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Dave@Moon
thought of 2 more songs (see edit history)