Ethanol and MPG

[padgett]

This summer the local gas stations are all sporting "up to 10% ethanol" stickers and while the MPG at 60+ mph seems about the same, in town particularly with the a/c on seems to have dropped about 2-3 mpg.

Has anyone noticed their BLM or instantaneous changing significantly ? That would be the indicator.

[joe_padavano]

Ethanol has less energy content per gallon than gasoline, so even at 10% a drop in MPG is to be expected.

[Guest EDBSO]

The Reatta won't run on E85, well ok it will but the E85 will kill the fuel system and Reatta's engine, mpgs are really down on E85.

So not only does E85 use more energy to process than it produces, it is causing huge inflation pain in food, States are loosing billions in taxes and road maintenance funds because of reduced taxes on E85 and the topper, you do not get nearly the same mpg as good old "gas". YES it took a government committee to figure that one out.

[padgett]

Some of my point is that if a 10% blend of Ethanol results in a 10% drop in MPG then you are still using the same amount of gasoline to travel and the ethanol is just a waste (well maybe it cools the charge some).

[jonlabree]

If it cools the charge then the mph should be better.

If you want to try Menthol it will cool the charge and improve the mph.

[Guest tomt]

In Iowa, Ethenol blended gas is sold as Mid-Grade and has been cheaper that regular unleaded. My Honda Accord also has an MPG readout, and shows about a 20% decrease in MPG when using Iowa Mid-Grade. This slowly gets back to normal when I get back into IL. It takes about a tank.

Obviously, this kills the cheaper fuel.

[Barney Eaton]

In Texas (an oil producing state) you would be hard pressed to find a station selling 10% or E85. I have noticed as I travel into the midwest, the grain producing states are pushing the Ethenol (make sense)

I think if closely monitored, a 10% blend should not reduce mileage by 10%, that would be like not having it there at all. Although, maybe it also reduces performance enough that you "floor" it more and waste more fuel.

Bottom line......we are getting ripped. There are all these excuses for gas going up, but none of them equate to the actual increase, except greed.

I was looking at cars this weekend (not looking to buy, just looking) and the local Hummer dealer has 60 NEW H3 on the the lot, a few are almost a year old. He also has 20+ H2's. When they first opened, a salesman told me they sold 40 the first month, then it leveled off to 30 per month. Looks like those days are over.

[2seater]

It takes over 30% more E85 to produce the same btu's as pure gasoline, so E10 would be roughly 3.5% more. My favorite station has done the same thing, up to 10% ethanol added, two weeks ago. I have only run a couple of tanks, and the mileage is definitely lower, but it will take a few more tanks to get a good feel for the actual change. I am all for saving gasoline, although at what price? The disturbing thing is while E85 sells for considerably less than regular gasoline, there was no change in price when the local stations changed to an ethanol blend. Even at a 3% reduction in mileage, it is equivalent to adding $.12/gallon at current prices. Where is that money going??

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

Just one thing on the E-85. If it was given an octan rating it would be around 106. If you know about octane rating and how they react to your car this sould tell you what is already being stated here. Your milage will be lower than gas. The only good thing about E-85 is it allows for a much higher compression ratio engine. Thus enabling a more efficent engine.

As stated earlier stated, use of E-85 and mass produced biodiesel will lead to food and crop shortages. Just one other fact, if all our crop were put tward fuel it would only power less than one percent of the vehicles on the road.

Ethenol being added to gas has been hoppening for years, especially to the higher octan fuels. I would guess that the stations are advertising it now to appear more enviormently friendly.

[Guest C.F.Massie]

Those of us who have driven on the dragstrip or have been involved with drag racing for many years know the advantages and disadvantages of using alcohol based fuels. Power vs MPG vs economics is a fine balancing act to say the least but if you want a good article to read about which fuel is a better choice for your situation take a look at this one, it may answer some of your questions.

<span style="font-weight: bold">http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id33.html</span>

[Guest ekvh]

Not beat a dead horse, but how many watched the ABC World News Monday evening? The did a bit on a seventh grade drop out mechanic who is playing with the hybrid, the hydrogen etc. He seems to be working with big diesels now. He is probably the kind of guy necessary to find new solutions because as a seventh grade drop out, he's probably not rutted into our stereotyped science. I found this site about him. Maybe he's just another charlotan, there's also a few of them who are seventh grade drop outs.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html

[Ronnie]

It seems it is just getting harder and harder to find good seventh grade drop outs nowadays. Maybe we need to build some special schools for them so they don't get bogged down in all the modern day math and science. I really see it as a good thing because when they get out of school they would have no way to go but up.

[padgett]

Well at a steady 65 mph my instantaneous was cycling around 128 and BLM was 136. MPG recorded for 110 miles about 1/2 with a/c on & 15 city miles/95 interstate/15 in heavy rain was 26.7

This was on Sam's regular marked "up to 10% ethanol".

[Guest ekvh]

Okay Ronnie, I am a 4-5-6 grade teacher, I will see if I can drive a few more of the good ones out. BTW-I like your new website.

[rock bottom]

EDBSO-ethanol is not driving up the cost of food-cost of transportation is raising the price of your food! Crude oil is up from $60 per barrel a year ago. Almost all of your food is transported or hauled to your grocery store-so it would seem to me we are paying the middle east or large oil companies tremendous dollars to eat! There is only about 4 cents of corn in a box of corn flakes-where does the rest of your $5.00 for the box go? Ethanol is much more efficiently produced than just 5 years ago-new and improved technology or a new 7th grade dropout working on the process! There I'm off my soapbox and back to Reatta issues!

Doug

[Guest EDBSO]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rock bottom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">EDBSO-ethanol is not driving up the cost of food-cost of transportation is raising the price of your food! Doug </div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">You and six other people think that is true and 4 of them are politicians and 2 grow corn.</span></span>

[Guest Reatta1]

These politicians who are pushing this ethanol blended gas on us should have about five gallons pumped into them where the sun don't shine and then lit off to see how many miles they get per gallon. After that we'd most likely be back to real gas. I just got back from a long trip and saw a drop of roughly 5 mpg with 10% ethanol compared to non ethanol gas. Far as I'm concerned that sucks big time.

[Guest TommyH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 'Reatta1'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These politicians who are pushing this ethanol blended gas on us should have about five gallons pumped into them where the sun don't shine and then lit off to see how many miles they get per gallon. After that we'd most likely be back to real gas. I just got back from a long trip and saw a drop of roughly 5 mpg with 10% ethanol compared to non ethanol gas. Far as I'm concerned that sucks big time. </div></div>

But it's good for the environment!

I like environmentalists.

They are a constant source of amusement to me.

I could go on and on about forestation, gas, genetically altered food, and political corruption, but I just don't have several hours to type just a small description of the many thousands of pages I have read on these topics. Not lying.

[Guest EDBS0]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TommyH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 'Reatta1'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These politicians who are pushing this ethanol blended gas on us should have about five gallons pumped into them where the sun don't shine and then lit off to see how many miles they get per gallon. After that we'd most likely be back to real gas. I just got back from a long trip and saw a drop of roughly 5 mpg with 10% ethanol compared to non ethanol gas. Far as I'm concerned that sucks big time. </div></div>

But it's good for the environment!

I like environmentalists.

They are a constant source of amusement to me.

I could go on and on about forestation, gas, genetically altered food, and political corruption <span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">( Nice use of a pleonasm ), </span></span>but I just don't have several hours to type just a small description of the many thousands of pages I have read on these topics. Not lying. </div></div>

[padgett]

I would be interested to see if people are noticing a change in the BLM reading at cruise, if MPG is dropping then the map must be commanding more fuel and that will show up in BLM.

[Guest EDBS0]

Interesting question time.

Ethanol has a very high octaine rating.

With 10% in 87 is it really an 89 or 92 but "branded" as being at least a 87.

Question could it be higher?

[Guest ekvh]

I have noticed when I fill with no ethanol, I get 2-3 mpg better. There are places on the web who sell electronics to hook up between your O2 sensor and the computer and trick the computer to a leaner or richer mixture. They are the rage with all the guys still trying to utilize the water-to-fuel concept. I have continued to be interested in the topic ($5 a gallon makes you get interested in anything). It has been fun to read and there are youtube videos all over showing how easy it is to get the HHO from water, but without knowing what you're doing, any fooling of the O2 sensor and computer could, and has, lead to early engine failure. One of the fun reads was of a guy who hooked his up with no back flow check and blew his hood up.

I really truly hope wish I ekvh he did not use any pleonasms in this here site. If so, kill me dead. Pleonasms: The use of more words than are required to express an idea; redundancy. They seem like orgasms, they often contain a lot of repeated words, grunts etc.

[Guest Reatta1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EDBS0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting question time.

Ethanol has a very high octaine rating.

With 10% in 87 is it really an 89 or 92 but "branded" as being at least a 87.

Question could it be higher? </div></div>

If it has a higher octane rating, why don't you get better mileage? Thing about ethanol is that it doesn't burn as efficiently as gas so it takes more of it to travel the same distance as you would on straight gas. This whole ethanol thing is a big hoax being foisted off on the consuming public by the enviro kooks.

By the way, I see your Ontario, yours to explore, license plate signature. Are you an Ontario resident? We just got back from Kenora. Going from $4 gas in the states to nearly $6 gas in Canada was a shock. We took a float plane tour over Lake of the Woods. What a sight.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EDBS0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting question time.

Ethanol has a very high octaine rating.

With 10% in 87 is it really an 89 or 92 but "branded" as being at least a 87.

Question could it be higher? </div></div>

The answer to your question is most likely yes. Ethanol has a much higher octane rating than gas. E85 is around a 106 octane rating. And pure ethanol would be a bit higher. But a higher octane rating is not always a good thing. Ina a lower compression engine it just causes a loss of efficiency.