Class for my car?

[Power Surge]

There is a regional AACA show this weekend, and I would love to bring my car to it. I have Shelby American 427 S/C Cobra, CSX4241, and would like to know what class I enter it in. I have gotten some conflicting information talking to some of the local AACA folk.

Pictures below for anyone interested!

[Ron Green]

AACA Regional Meets typically have their own rules including classes, original, modified, etc and vary from club to club. You will need to find out the rules of this show from the region.

[nearchoclatetown]

Excellant car. Is there any documentation that it did in fact race?

[Steve Moskowitz]

If the car has documentation that it indeed is a historic race car you should contact national headquarters to get it certified. This is a very prestigious badge. the car then could enter national shows in our cetified race car class which I guess from looking at the car (road courses?) would be 24B. Other wise all Shelby Cobras are in class 36D

[Guest Stonefish]

Curious to hear the history. If it might have run any hill climbs in PA...let me know, I'm here to help!

attached is a photo of Jim Dantzer's A Production Cobra at Fleetwood Hill Climb

[Power Surge]

Thanks for the replies guys. I may not have been clear about the car, for which I apologise...

This is CSX4241... 4000 series cars are the "continuation" Cobras, that Shelby started building in 1996. This is not an original 60s Cobra, although the car is sold by Shelby and titled as a 1965 Shelby.

My particular car is very detailed to original built (probably another reason you guys thought it was a 60s car), and has many hard to find 60s Cobra parts on it.

I always prefer the car to be judged against other 60s era cars, because of it's original accuracy. It's difficult to find the proper class with this car, because it's NOT a replica, but it's also not an original. It's a genuine Shelby Cobra, it was just built at a later date in time.

So now you see my dilemma .

[Guest boettger]

I'm gonna stick my neck out here!

Your car is not an Antique. It's only 12 years old.

Therefore it does not qualify to be entered in an AACA National Show.

However, most local regional car shows have classes for vehicles like yours.

At the Iroquois Region, AACA Antique Auto Meet on Father's Day in Apalachin, NY we have a special interest class. Your car would fit into that class since we consider it a recreation of an original car.

[Steve Moskowitz]

These types of cars are problematic for our club and will only get more so in the future with the 56/57 Chevy's that are being built with original cowls. The spirit of our club is that a car must be 25 years or older for NATIONAL shows. Most shows on a regional or local level have much more lenient classes.

I applaud your honesty as I certainly am anything but a Ford expert or maybe some would say expert period! (beat you guys to the punch) Our Class Judging Committee would have to weigh in if the car was ever presented at a national show but I suspect that even with a correct title date the car has still not met the requirement that the vehicle must be 25 years or older.

[nearchoclatetown]

Steve, being that it is a "continuation" car, not a replica, it would be eligible when 25 years old. yes or no?

[Steve Moskowitz]

It will be elegible for some class at 25 years I would think! By that time, I probably will be in a nursing home or as a greeter at Wal-Mart. All you "younguns" will be setting the rules and classes at the time. Our classes evolve over time to provide fairer and better participation for our members. Continuation cars are not the same for all so this is one that the AACA members on the committee will have to review.

Not as simple by today's rules for class 36D which is "Shelby Cobras all models"

[DizzyDale]

Dear PS,SUPER car THANKS for sharing.NEVER met a Cobra i didn't like.diz

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve Moskowitz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By that time, I probably will be in a nursing home.....</div></div>

Get your "senior scooter" now and in twenty-five years you can show it.

[Power Surge]

Thanks guys! I went today and had a great time. This was my first AACA related event and I was very impressed with the club and the cars. I was the 60-69 Ford, Linc, Merc (except T-bird) class and took first place.

[novaman]

At a national meet, I would think this car might be a canidate for the Second Generation Vehicle class and something our folks should be made aware of (if they aren't already) so they can aquire the documention needed for when these cars are 25 years old.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Power Surge</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys! I went today and had a great time. This was my first AACA related event and I was very impressed with the club and the cars. I was the 60-69 Ford, Linc, Merc (except T-bird) class and took first place. </div></div>

I question how can you compete with a 12 year old car against cars that are 39-48 years old. Seems to me I would be very displeased if I was in your class, and you entered with you vehicle class with is in automobile timeline, basically a brand new off the show room floor car.

I do realize your car is an unique case and is definitely is not a replica. However I think IMHO the car should be judged against cars when it was built which is 12 years ago and not what it looks like, is titled as or has parts from. If your car was a time warp car and was found in a very well preserve state with very low mileage, I would have no issue with your car competing in that class.

But think of it, your car as a complete vehicle from being manufactured has only 12 years of preservation and no or little restoration. Please reconsider when attending your next show, and place your car in a class if possible with cars of your "real" vintage or enter it as display only. I have nothing against your car and would love to have it and would welcome it in any show. I also wouldn't want to discourage you from showing this unique car. But you're competing on a very uneven playing field by being able to skip the preservation or restoration efforts of your fellow competitors in that class. And I do realize that some of these car owners bought the car as restored/preserved and have minimal efforts in the car, but still the car has had a restoration or preservation from that class' time era.

This reminds me a little of the local cruise ins where a car owner will remove a door panel to enter their car in the "under construction" class or enters a 2007 car in the "daily driver" class. Both of these car owner examples have not officially broke the "rules" but have missed the true meaning of what these two classes are to represent in these local shows which is 1. a car that is truely not completed and is currently under restoration and 2) an older vintage car that is used in daily commutes.

My $.02.

[Shop Rat]

From what I can gather he was not at an AACA National show. He was at a "local" show run by an AACA Region, therefore he can compete in whatever class they put him in. Many AACA Regions even have street rod and modified classes.

[Power Surge]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Power Surge</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys! I went today and had a great time. This was my first AACA related event and I was very impressed with the club and the cars. I was the 60-69 Ford, Linc, Merc (except T-bird) class and took first place. </div></div>

I question how can you compete with a 12 year old car against cars that are 39-48 years old. Seems to me I would be very displeased if I was in your class, and you entered with you vehicle class with is in automobile timeline, basically a brand new off the show room floor car.

I do realize your car is an unique case and is definitely is not a replica. However I think IMHO the car should be judged against cars when it was built which is 12 years ago and not what it looks like, is titled as or has parts from. If your car was a time warp car and was found in a very well preserve state with very low mileage, I would have no issue with your car competing in that class.

But think of it, your car as a complete vehicle from being manufactured has only 12 years of preservation and no or little restoration. Please reconsider when attending your next show, and place your car in a class if possible with cars of your "real" vintage or enter it as display only. I have nothing against your car and would love to have it and would welcome it in any show. I also wouldn't want to discourage you from showing this unique car. But you're competing on a very uneven playing field by being able to skip the preservation or restoration efforts of your fellow competitors in that class. And I do realize that some of these car owners bought the car as restored/preserved and have minimal efforts in the car, but still the car has had a restoration or preservation from that class' time era.

This reminds me a little of the local cruise ins where a car owner will remove a door panel to enter their car in the "under construction" class or enters a 2007 car in the "daily driver" class. Both of these car owner examples have not officially broke the "rules" but have missed the true meaning of what these two classes are to represent in these local shows which is 1. a car that is truely not completed and is currently under restoration and 2) an older vintage car that is used in daily commutes.

My $.02. </div></div>

Thanks Ken, I do appreciate your comments, and I did expect them too.

This is the problem I am faced with owning this car. It's such a gray area, and nobody seems to want to be bothered with it. The car is a <span style="font-weight: bold">real</span> Shelby Cobra, but it's not an <span style="font-style: italic">original</span> Shelby Cobra.

As I was there over the course of the day, the thought did cross mind that it might not be fair to other people in the class that my car does not posses the age that it represents. But then, it's not fair to me or the car to get thrown into a replica or special interest class either.

If my car were built with modern parts and non-original bits, then I would never want it put in a class with cars from the 60s. But, my car is very accurately built to orginal, I prefer to have it judged as so. My car could easily be judged against some original cars and score higher, because the level of correctness on my car is higher than how many originals sit today.

And just because my car is not 25 years old or more, does not mean that the car and myself have not endured similar tribulations as people who own cars of that age. I am the third owner of the car. The car was not in a state of original correctness when I bought it. I spent a very long time tracking down original parts, researching original documentation, looking at hard to find original photos, and speaking with many original Cobra owners to get the details I needed. A Cobra is not like a Mustang.. you can't build and entire car from a catolog, and there aren't a hundred restoration books that tell you exactly what bolts go where. A lot of effort was put into the car to get it where it is. And, I drive it. I've put 3 times the mileage on it as both previous owners combined.

And other thing about the age... think about this... If the car WERE 25 years old (there are several Cobra replica brands that started in the 70s and early 80s), then it would be allowed and have to compete against other non-replica cars. Those car owners would have the same beef against that replica Cobra as well, but it would be a legit entry because of it's age. It could be a replica that gets driven a few times a year, and be 25 years old and have 5000 miles on it. It would never rust or need restoration because it's fiberglass. Basically, it would not endure the "stress" that a factory built steel car of the same year would endure, and yet by the rules it would still be legal.

In the case of the continuation Cobras like mine, I think they should be allowed to compete in the same class as an original Cobra would be in. If the class is being JUDGED, then the continuation car would do as well or not as it was built. If it's accuracy rivals it's 60s older brother, than it should be judged as so. If it's got an aluminum small block with fuel injection and an MSD billet distributor, then obviously it's not going to place well in a class like that, but being a legit Shelby it should be allowed to if the owner chooses.

Obviously these are my feeling as an owner of this car, but hopefully my thoughts spark some interest in the AACA to come up with a decision on this. I'd love to do some national shows, but what's the point of going if my car has to sit in the corner like a red headed step child?

Worst case scenario, I could enter the car in the show, ask that it be in class which would include cars from 1965, and just put DNJ (do not judge) on my ballot. I would still want the car in the class for the same as an original. At least that way, it allows people to know what an original car looked like in 1965 (well, technically 1966, which is when S/Cs were first sold).

[tbirdman]

Powersurge,

I understand your quandry here. Not a replica but yet not a car built in the 60s. Hopefully you can find a suitable solution. I still think that you should be judged against other cars that have withstood the perils of time. I am an AACA member, but I have not competed in any type of AACA shows.

However the most important thing is that you show up and have fun at shows. The most fun with these cars I think is driving them and talking to people about them.

I know it would tough for you to be DNJ as you have put effort into your car. However that is what I intend to do with my car this year. Not for the same reason, but because most shows are too long. Even while staying for a short period of time at some shows last year, I managed to win some awards which did not sit well with some. So this year if I plan to leave early, I will be DNJ.

[novaman]

At an AACA Region meet it is up to them how to handle this, but my belief is this car, once it is 25 years old or older would fall under the Second generation vehicle class which is a new class as of this year and a lot of people/regions aren't fimialiar with it yet. Cars I know of in this class are the Shay Model A, and the Avanti II. There are others but I've forgot the names. the one catch to this class is it has to be factory production. Example, a Shay Model A that was built at the factory is allowed, but if you bought it as a kit and put it together in your backyard, it is not. For a national meet you must submit your vin to have it validated as to wether the car was factory built or sold as a kit. (yes, the records are available from people assocatied with these companies)