60FlatTop

Blackened screws and black wire for the staples make the best appearance. When I look at a car critically I always walk right up to the window and look down at the fur strips. The shiny screws, sometimes even flat heads, shiny pop rivets, loose glass, gaps, and overspray are very common. I took a buyer to an auction once and told him we would look at the fur strips to gauge attention to detail on cars he was interested in. We sure saved a lot of time. It's hard (expensive) to make them nice. Bernie

17 Studebakers! Restraint is my least recognized attribute. B

Mine are called, the white car, the Riviera, the Packard, the convertible, the black car. That's pretty much what me and the wife and the kids call them. Sometimes I tease them: "Which car are we taking?" "The Buick" I get the eye roll on that one. Bernie

This has turned into a bit of a modified speculation thread. I guess I can let my secret out. I stepped on the cookie cutter while I was walking along looking up plagiarize. Sitting in the shady sipping the iced tea I can see my '48 Packard with a little trim here and some metal shaping To do a custom like this. Of course I'd have to convert to 12 volts to make the headlights work But I can see it in my mind. This one could happen. Bernie

I have two chairs, if you get in the neighborhood. B

" Let me be clear, though: I'm not against modified cars. I sell them and I own them. But I'm 100% against boring cars, and the cars at most shows are lessons in cookie cutter vehicle construction with no imagination, no craftsmanship, no innovation. Just order parts out of a catalog and bolt them together. 350 Chevy, TH350 transmission, 4-barrel carburetor, cheap chrome valve covers, 9-inch Ford rear, Mustang II front suspension, Torque Thrust wheels, indian blanket on the front seat, Rat Fink stickers, and a skull shift knob, just for cool points." I like to call that the Country Music Syndrome. You know how every cowboy song goes; I'm crying in a bar. my wife left me, my house burned down, my dog died, Ohhhh, woe is me. That's the recipe for that type of song. Cars have the same recipe as well. Way back when I was in High School I remember reading a short story in Road & Track that I wish I could find. It was about an individualist. He bought a certain type of car, a jacket, boots, and so on. Others liked his individualism and took on the look, soon there were enough individualists to form a club. All owned the same type of car, wore the same clothes, and were proud to be individualists. I paraphrased some of that story in one of my own that got published in the student's literary magazine, even gained a little fame when an English teacher tore it up in front of his class. (Not enough to overcome pimples and get laid, though). That story has pervaded most of my life's experience, lucky I have a great appreciation for ironic humor. Cookie cutter lives in "ticky tacky" houses with a two car garage and one bay has the Hot Rod begged from the wife with cashed in IRA funds. I'd stick out my bottom lip and spin my tires if that was my lot, too. It's been a fight to stay unconventional. That's what I think about sometimes while I sit in that shady spot looking at a lawn with more cars than a sane person would own. I'm not antisocial. Just selective. Bernie

I don't go to many shows at all. I mostly like riding around on back roads, stopping at small town diners, and splashing hot oil all over the inside of my engine. I used to go to club functions, but, unless it was a show, it seemed like I was the only one driving an old car. My thing is sitting in an uncomfortable chair by the car when I could be driving it or working on it. With both original and modified cars, the cars are fine, it's usually the personalities that come with the cars that detract from the day. I like modified cars. Back in the early 1980's I put a 350 Buick engine in a 1960 Ford F-100. I enjoyed doing it as well as driving it. Since then most of my "good" cars have been Buicks and Cadillacs, or something similar and there was no benefit in modifying them. And I'm not interested in many Fords or Chevies that certainly could be improved. Just buy the better car. I do have to laugh a little at the CCCA frowning on modified cars. Aren't most of them? I think a lot of chassis were shipped off to caves where guys with hammers, sheets or tin, blocks of wood, and lots and lots of lead beat out some non-production models held in pretty high regard. Imagine the work they could have done with some of today's serious hobbyist metal working equipment. Some of those cars are quite nasty under the surface. I still like them but in my mind they will always be modified cars. Maybe it is all in a person's need to share experiences. When I was in my 30's I wanted to go places and do things with groups who shared my interest. Today the social burden outweighs the value of the trip. I'l just put a couple cars on my lawn and take a folding chair way up in back to a shady spot and have an iced tea. Bernie

The logic of getting a car the same age as yourself may be a bit flawed. A 20 year old car can have some surprise expenses for a limited budget as well. A good car that embodies the good points of what you have listed is the Buick Lucerne. They are a real nice car and a 2007 or 2008, gently used would probably be a better fit. A lucerne is a Cadillac DeVille with a 6 cylinder, nice car. Or a good Chevy Impala of the same vintage. Bernie Oh, one of my cars is the same age as me. That doesn't make it anything special, just old.

Did you try using a blunt tool to massage the existing plugs into seating? It would be the first step. That lead and zinc body should roll right in there. If you look into the details, that little check ball at the bottom of the accelerator pump well is steel. GM made a special seating tool for it, a hex shaft with a rounded cup at the bottom. You press it against the ball and give it a little whack with a hammer to seat it. That should be an indication of how malleable the material is. Dual carbs? I think you could get it running really good on one carb first. Then gently pry one of the plugs from a second carb and put it in a glass of water in the kitchen window over the sink. It might sprout. Once the carb sprout grows enough to transplant put it on the engine. Be patient and your dual carb issues will kinda go away. Bernie

So now you know why I don't let them drag my wiper blades across the dry windshield for the state inspection. Someone thought I was kidding about having the priest come over and sprinkle Holy water on the windshield if they ran the wipers. Bernie

My '64 had an untenable slight roughness to it and I had checked all the typical tune up and carb things pretty much the way you have. It seemed to run good but not quite right. I ended up with a piston in pieces in the bottom of the pan. I have seen two other 401-425's break or crack pistons. That was about 14 years ago and those engines are getting older. I would do a minimum of a very thorough leakdown test. It looks like you don't have a problem opening the engine yourself. If I experienced the same situation I would probably pull it down and check the pistons. Sounds like a lot of work but sometimes you have to do it. Bernie

Actually, since the stroke and heart attack, I am in better shape than I was in the previous 30 years. Drove 250 miles round trip to a business meeting yesterday, ate healthy food, did some design calculations on a project this morning, and will be heading out for an hour walk along the Erie Canal in twenty minutes. I'm still buying projects. The doctor said it's fine to plan on another 40 years, just don't expect it. Oh, I can see my belt buckle and my wife told me not to wear "those baggy ass jeans old men wear". She said get the tight ones so we can take turns following each other at the mall. And I backed the Sprite into the garage with a tow bar to begin reassembly from the job started in 1965 by "others" Bernie

I see ads like that on Ebay all the time, for about 15 years, actually. I just think "Jerk" and move on. I have seen the misleading ploys since I was about 10 years old. I find them distasteful and they tend to make me an ethnic and cultural bigot when I try not to be. The problem is, I can usually draw an accurate picture of the poster without even seeing them. I had lunch with a friend today who had looked at a Cadillac for sale at a car show. The price was $6995. I would have told the seller it looked like it was worth at least $7,000. It is funny, being raised in rural post WWII America. My Grandfather had two businesses named "Wholesale". I think the country boys and the city boys mixed cultures during the war and everyone came home think Uncle XXX could get it wholesale. That flim-flammery has spread from city cultural neighborhoods to the whole nation during intervening 70 years.

There is an urban legend 1939 Buick 4 door convertible hidden away about 20 miles from me. A lot of people who have heard about it have told me the story, but I know the owner, have seen it, and know even more of the story. About 45 years ago that car was advertised for sale on the far east side of Rochester, NY. A friend of mine, who will remain unnamed, I won't even mention his big red Pierce-Arrow, went to look at the car with a few other "expert" car collectors one morning. There were probably four in the group. After examining the car they all went to a local restaurant and discussed every flaw in the car and argued the high asking price, all the imperfections, every fault, until the car was abandoned as hopeless. My friend told me that about a week later one of the local transient used car salesmen showed up at the dealership driving it with a great big smile on his face. Oblivious to the faults, he just drove the car everywhere and had one hell of a good time. The group had looked at the car so objectively they never saw the enjoyment Ray, the buyer, got from the car. My friend told me that story one day and cautioned me never to take a bunch of friends to pick apart a car I might be interested in. He regretted not buying that car, but learned a lesson to pass on, at least to me. Splitting hairs on the value of a $7500 car is pretty close to the same as that car at something like $1200 45 years ago. It's a cheap hobby car, subjectively. Objectively it is a 50 year old car that ain't too smart to buy. My friend knows enough to follow a statement like that with "Duh." So the comments are in. I suggested looking for a more expensive car. I have disappointed a lot of salesmen who gave the professional pitch of "How much would you pay today?" "Nothing, I don't want it." "Well there must be some lower price." "No" If I want it I'll buy it. If I don't like it when I get to know it, I'll sell it. I hate to quote myself, but "Take 75 crispy new $100 bills to you local dealer and fan them out. Tell them "I got some cash to spend." See where they take you. Bernie

Interesting string of comments. I am an old boiler guy and although there aren't many riveted lap joint boilers left a few have come my way. On boilers the metal to metal seal is called caulking and we do it with special round head chisels to mechanically create a molecular bond. Now that the thought is in my head I think I will make up a couple, maybe a 3/16 and a 1/4, straight and cupped. I'll put them in my Murphy's tool box- Murphy's Law: if you have a special tool you will never need it. Bernie

Interesting, I returned from Sea, in the WESTPAC and was stationed in Charleston, SC in 1970. In downtown Charleston there was a Buick dealer along the Cooper River who had a white 1965 GS that I came very close to buying. Ended up with a '68 Riviera about a year and a half later. Changed the color of that one from gold to maroon, too. Bernie

Those orphan cars do attract their own breed of owner. My Mother noticed that when I was 16 years old and had a Kaiser Traveler for sale.She lived over 50 years after the man came to see the car and never forgot him. I always wonder about Darwinian incidents that happen to people beyond reproductive ages. Bernie

Anything pre-1970 in presentable condition and under $10,000 is pretty much a good buy. The hitch who you are going to present it to. I bought my '64 Riviera in 1978 for either $1900 or $2100 (don't remember) which was double the average price and, converted to 2016 money, would be about $8,000 or close to $12,000 earned before taxes. My car had a worn repaint in the original gold color and worn through in spots. The exhaust was completely incorrect and the bucket seats were from a Chevy. The engine was coded as a 1965 401. AND someone had installed a vinyl top that looked pretty good, like a '65, sometime in the '60's. In the first year, maybe 6 months, I put on a stock exhaust and bought a nice '65 Custom interior from a great member, Jerry Hirsch. I have enjoyed the car immensely for nearly 40 years, repainted it in a different color, installed the correct code 425, and worked to get the details I like and can do right. Even though the interior in the car for sale seems somewhat incidental, that and other obvious flaws in the car can become very wearing on an owner over time. Back to "presentable", there has been a constant parade of people urgently, practically wetting them self, to inform me the top is wrong or the nice looking seats are not right. These aren't BCA or AACA judges. Little old ladies with grocery carts tell me, gas station attendants tell me,, people get down on one knee and whisper it to their dogs! And they never noticed most of the other stuff. Like this topic, I questioned the battery disconnected during a photo shoot, yet greater focus is on the seats. Clark's has all you need for under $2,000. Reliable and untouched, you can enjoy the car a lot. They are one of the best cars a person can own and it will make YOU happy, probably not others. If you are going to be hobby active you might reconsider. Add up all the immediate costs you will incur and pay more for a more acceptable car. I think $7500 is a cheap entry level car, $12,000 to $14,000 will help please the masses and deter some work for you. Right now I am in the market for one more special car. I am figuring $18,000 to $25,000 to satisfy me and a real AACA judge. Now, that is the opinion from someone who has owned a very similar car for a whole lot of years. Bernie

Here's one "I'm a builder from the New York and New Jersey area and only been bankrupt 4 or 5 times. I'm investing some of "my own" money into a new job, should know this fall. Can I take it Net 90?" Bernie

That's a good price if you can get in it and start driving for the rest of the season. You could ask the seller if the $7500 price is what they determined a fair price or if they thought it was worth less and raised the asking price expecting to be chiseled down. And work from there. If the car was advertised for less or the owner thought it was worth less I would be concerned about a hidden problem. What figure do you have in mind? The $7500 is just your entry fee. Figure $3,000 to $4,000 the first two years and an average of $600 per year thereafter just for items you want nicer or the occasional surprise. I would be concerned waiting for Forum answers to make the decision if I wanted it. The fact that you don't have a sense of urgency could mean it is not really what you want to spend your money on. Bernie PS. mine in sitting out in the garage with the battery hooked up any time I want it. I fired it up last weekend. Maybe I will Sunday. Why is that one disconnected?

When I get the Sprite back together I am going to look for a young lady who is delightful to handle as well as tight and firm. And cute bug eye glasses to match. Bernie

I would look at that car if it were near. It reminds me of a friend who followed up on a Subaru Tiger in the mid-1980's. And back when Ebay let you use a * wildcard I always searched for incorrect spelling. But, you know, I have stopped searching "convertable" under cars for sale. As I age I am looking for smarter sellers and dumber buyers. Bernie

\ That sounds like something my wife was listening to on Books on Tape; I asked her to come in and listen. She agreed that the speaker had that "read for hire" sound. I laughed about the $6,000 paint job. That gave me insight into what readers and writers make. A professor would give them and A. I gave them a shrug. Better to use it to define prose than the car hobby. I would rather hear Stacy Keach read that particular script. Hot Rodding, Street Rodding, Customizing, drag racing have been alive and in transition for 100 years. The question on this car has been answered. It is someone's leavings, so go for it. The part about doing the "math" to make motor mounts is what raises an eyebrow. Bernie

I like videos, but I usually watch period ones. That obligatory rock music and flashing stills is just too prevalent. As soon as the fist couple of bass notes come on it's "Oh, God, not another one of these wanna be rock stars.. On the car, a 50 year old car taken out of context and compared with five decades of technology, well, you wonder what the expectation was. You have one with a recirculating ball steering box, joints and rods with a parallelogram arrangement, and heavy unsprung weight compared with rack and pinion, light weigh brakes, and McPherson struts. In a visual example, here's the 1964 system: And here is rack and pinion: It is all in the linkage. Look no hard rock or flashing stills! Bernie

I'm just interested in subtle comments, especially sexist ones. Rivieras aren't for girls, not old ones. They paid that woman to drive the white one. Well, they paid the man too, but he wanted to take his home.... and the girl....and the white car, too. Bernie