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Wow, my eyes have trouble focusing on this grainy photo, but I thought the Olds was a 1961 (with rear fins at bottom), the Pontiac Tempest a 61, and the Falcon a 62. But again, I am not an expert on any of these cars. Just what I thought... Between the Falcon and the white Ford truck I see a white car whose tail light reminds me of a 1966 Chevelle. But I can't see it clearly at all.

You might put the word out that you would like to get old non-running cars running again for people, and will do so for the cost of parts and materials alone.

Thanks for the reply, Hupp36. I'll check things out, and see if this info will help. My rattle happens only when the clutch is NOT depressed. But I have never greased the throw-out bearing (I'm used to modern sealed bearings, I guess). I don't know whether my Model R-12 Hupp even uses anti-rattle springs on the throw-out bearing, but I will look to see if I can see a broken or missing spring on the assembly. I am hoping I won't have to tear it all down. Thanks again!

I got my Hupp running for the first time this year last weekend, getting it ready to transport to the uphosltery shop which is going to replace the original leather interior. Upon driving it around the block I was reminded of a problem which had cropped up last year. There is a distinct and bothersome rattle underneath, which is apparently coming from the throw-out bearing. When I first noticed this problem, I crawled underneath the car expecting to find a brake rod rattling against the frame or something. But It silences immediately whenever I depress the clutch pedal, and with the inspection shield removed from below the bellhousing, the sound does indeed seem to coming from the the clutch assembly. Other than this rattle, the clutch assembly is working fine. I searched the AACA forums for "throw-out bearing rattle" and did find one post which referred to an "anti-rattle spring." Would my Model R have had such a thing originally? If so, perhaps it has broken and fallen off. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

My memory must be failing me...or there are TWO battlefield places at Gettysburg with the name "Devil's _____". I thought I recalled that place being called, "Devil's Cauldron." Am I mis-remembering this?

NICE find, Auburnseeker. I'm insanely jealous.

Dosmo asks a good question. But I'll bet that, since these cars were intended for use as taxi cabs, I'll bet the survival rate was extremely low. So even if production numbers were significant, I'll bet there are VERY few of them extant.

Old cars are notorious for gas tanks loading up with rust and other debris. Check around to see if brand new gas tanks are available for your Buick. Also, old fuel pumps used to be made with laminated diaphragms. These diaphragms deteriorate with time, so even if you buy a brand new-old-stock pump, if it has a laminated diaphragm it may fail after only a few hours of operation. Look at the fuel pump closely, and notice where the edges of the diaphragm stick out between the bolted-together sections of the housing. Pick at the diaphragm material with your fingernail or whatever, and see if it is made up of multiple thin layers of material. If so, it is a laminated diaphragm, and should be replaced. The alternative is a modern neoprene material, which is like one layer of black rubber. Old fuel pumps that are otherwise ok can be easily "rebuilt" by installing a new neoprene diaphragm. Or, you can order a rebuilt pump from a number of reliable sources. Just specify that you want a pump with a neoprene diaphragm...not a "NOS" or "NORS" fuel pump which has been lying on a shelf somewhere for decades.

Doug, You're right that the "biggest" engine for 1968 Chevelles was a 396. There were two of them, actually. The standard 396 high performance engine, and the SPECIAL high performance 396 with 375 horsepower, under Regular Production Option (RPO) L-78. The differences that comprised the L-78 option included 4-bolt main caps holding down the steel crankshaft, big "square" intake ports in the aluminum intake manifold, solid lifter camshaft, holley 4 barrel carburetor, high compression pistons, etc. The regular 396 engine got more ordinary engine components. In 1969, there were indeed some Chevelles sold with even larger engines, but these were actually 427 cubic inches, sold under the "COPO" program (the acronym stands for "Central Office Production Order.") Essentially, the 427 engine was not supposed to be installed in these cars. However, a production order from the Central Office could override such rules. The "402" engine debuted in 1970, described as a 396 on the car badges and engine stickers. It was essentially the same engine, just bored a tiny bit larger.

Wow. Very cool. Looks really short.

Thanks, Trimacar!

My friends are restoring a Model 20 Hupp, and need a replacement sight glass tube (one was dropped and broken). They acquired some glass tubing, and had it cut to length, but the tubing walls were too thick. Any suggestions for a good source? Thanks in advance!

Wow, talk about an uncommon car. I hope SOMEONE will save it. I used to have a nice hood ornament collection. Where would you ever find a replacement for THAT hood ornament??

I used to tell my Camaro club members that, the best way to protect the integrity of their special car's true identity was to start assembling an "album" of documentation. All factory documentation, such as "Protecto-Plates," Trim Tags, VIN tags, and even the special rivets are being reproduced in very good quality. And they're readily available. (check on eBay. I saw all those things last time I looked, about a year ago). Yet personal testimony and other artifacts can be very solid proof, when several components are added together. For example, if you begin tracing the ownership history of your car (obviously, this information is mostly related to cars of the 1950's through the 1970's), you may be able to get a notarized personal note from several previous owners, describing the car at the time when they owned it. You might even find someone who has an old repair receipt, etc, hidden away somewhere. Sometimes folks get lucky, and find a previous owner who has photos of himself or family members standing near the car decades ago. The point is to try and assemble all the documentation you can possibly find, just like a detective would do when working an important legal case. Using methods like this, I was able to guide several members back in the day all the way to the door of the dealership that sold the car when new. Having said all this, I wouldn't be too confident of being able to keep that info hidden for very long. And you must decide for yourself which does the most harm to MOST people who love your kind of collector car: Will it be more harmful to make the information public, where counterfeiters can find it? Or would it be more harmful to withhold it from people who really need it? Good luck. Hope you figure out the best choice.

Hindsight is 20/20 of course. But when you think about it, what were we to do? We had the information that our members wanted and needed in order to properly restore their Camaros. Would it have been right to refuse to help them, just to "protect" the information? I don't think so. In the end, with the advent of the internet, hiding such information is virtually impossible. Even if you try to withhold it from everyone (then...what GOOD is it?), they can figure it out eventually. For example, before the old Fisher Body Labor booklet was found with crib notes on back, we had already published survey forms in our CAMARO CORRAL magazine, asking members with 1967 Camaros to record the codes on their trim tags, and the fill out the survey form telling us which options their car had originally, and how certain they were that these options really were genuine OEM factory installed. There was a place where we asked for comments of explanation. Then, when particular tags were really interesting, I would personally call that member, and spend some time getting a feel for their car, and for them as a person. After this, I applied a code to their survey for credibility. We were finally beginning to crack some of the codes when that "Rosetta Stone" labor terms booklet was found. And that was before the internet made such things exponentially more easy.

Many years ago I was President of the United States Camaro Club. During that time, the GM Norwood Assembly Plant near Cincinnati, Ohio was shut down forever (1985). It was the factory where the final GM F-Bodies were built. I arranged to hold our last 3 or 4 years of our Camaro Nationals events in their parking lot, and GM execs had allowed us to tour the facility and watch Camaros being built on the line. LOTS of people had been there before me, pleading with old employees for info on how to interpret the old Fisher Body Codes, which were found on 1967 and older GM cars (before Fisher Body was absorbed into a larger group, which now included Chevrolet). But the same older employees told me they couldn't help me, just like they hadn't been able to help people who had asked before me. Then one day we got notice that GM was shutting down the plant forever. The general manager (who had grown sympathetic to our cause of preserving Camaro history) invited me down there (I live about 1.5 hours away). He gave me the opportunity to meet with all the old employees who had been there back in the 1960's, and to see if they could help me to preserve any history. I went there every business day for almost two weeks, carrying home all kinds of books and data. Those employees were now "lame ducks" who had only two weeks left to work before the plant would be closed. They were happy to sit and talk with me, and share their memories and experiences. ANYWAY, one day during my visit, the executive who was escorting me around got a phone call, asking for ME to come to someone's office. The same two guys who had assured me there was NO WAY to help me interpret those old Fisher Body codes were in the process of emptying desks and file cabinets, and literally moving furniture out. Lo and behold, behind one cabinet was an copy of a 1966 or 67 booklet about an upcoming labor agreement, and on the back side of that were some old crib notes which one of those men had taken while sitting in a FISHER BODY meeting where the new body codes for 1967 were being discussed. I was ecstatic. I returned to my office, and added this data to the hundreds of Trim Tag data we had received from our membership survey, and EUREKA, we had it. We decided not to publish the data, to avoid assisting counterfeiters. We would only interpret the trim tag of any of our members if they asked. They would give us the code letters, and we gave them the answers. But in the end, this proved useless in protecting or containing the info. People quickly figured out that, if enough people joined the club and asked for decoding of their trim tags, they would be able to compare notes and figure out the codes. Within a year or two, the cat was totally out of the bag.

Wow, TerryB. Now you've GOT to find a 28 or 29 Model A delivery, and recreate this thing, graphics and all. You've just GOT to.

Wow, Mcdarrunt, beautiful work! I really admire your skills, tenacity, and attitude.

Note the distinctive rear end housing in the wrecked car. That big brute has gotta be a great clue.

Timmy, A word of helpful explanation to a "newbie." (it's SUPPOSED to be helpful, anyway!) And by the way; WELCOME to this forum!! On this forum and other environments where hardcore antique car enthusiasts gather, the word "classic" has a very different meaning than it does for most of the rest of the world. Here many folks use the word "Classic" to refer only to a very select few models of very, very special cars. The Classic Car Club of America (CCCA), publishes a very exact list of accepted models, and if you use the word "Classic" around them to describe an ordinary old car (regardless of age), you are likely to see raised eyebrows and looks of disapproval. Following is the definition from the CCCA website: The Classic Car Club of America defines a Classic as a “Fine” or “Distinctive” automobile, American or foreign built, produced between 1915 and 1948. Generally, a Classic was high-priced when new and was built in limited quantities. Other factors, including engine displacement, custom coachwork and luxury accessories, such as power brakes, power clutch, and “one-shot” or automatic lubrication systems, help determine whether a car is considered to be a Classic. So you can see why some folks here would say that the cool old derelict car in your photo is not a "classic." However, I believe it is at least very, very cool. And if someone has that some make/year/model car in the process of restoration, you can bet that they would be VERY happy to find it. Cheers, and welcome once again.

Your photographs missed many of the important identifying features that folks like to use to sort out Ford OHV engines. However, It would appear that you have a 460 V8, which is part of the 385 series Ford engine family. The best clue is the thermostat housing boss being part of the intake, with the thermostat pointing straight up. But the easiest way to ID which family of Ford V8 engines you are looking at is to count the valve cover bolts. There should be 7 on a 460 v8, but I can't see in this photo.

Wow, HDdennis. Amazing video. At first I assumed it was an original Model A Ford engine and trans, and so I was wondering what he did to the trans to make it shift upward so smoothly, and to downshift cleanly.

One more story about that old spare Gray engine Dad had. In my 8th grade year, I had to make a science project, and was stumped on what to do. Dad had an idea. We went to the garage, and removed the distributor and coil from the Gray engine, and pulled 4 new spark plugs out of a box somewhere. Dad showed me how to hook up a transformer from my model train set, and we assembled the distributor, coil, spark plugs, and wires onto a wooden stand. The plugs were mounted under a running strip of brass metal to give them a ground, and ground wires were run to the coil and distributor. Then when we turned on the transformer, I could turn the distributor gear and cause each spark plug to fire in order. I took the project to school, along with a paper which I wrote which described the path an electrical current had to follow in a vehicle to get from the battery through the ignition switch and to the coil, and passing through the points and back to be boosted by the coil, and then back through the large coil secondary wire to the rotor, and thence to the correct spark plug. When I demonstrated it in class, the teacher was flabbergasted...especially when I explained that the functioning parts of my little project were all from an uncommon antique car engine. I got a "A" on the project, by the way. LOL

When I was a kid, my dad had an engine for a 1921 or 22 Gray under his workbench. No idea where he got it, but he kept it to preserve it. One day a fellow member of the Southern Ohio Chapter of the AACA came by and spotted the engine lying there. When Dad told him it was from a Gray automobile, he said, "Hey, there is a guy in Cincinnati who HAS a 1921 or 22 Gray. He will want that motor as a spare!" Dad replied that he had offered it to that same guy for $25, but he turned it down saying he didn't need any spare parts. The visitor went right home and called the guy, and asked him where he would find a spare crank, head, or manifold if something happened to his car. In a few days, the guy called and reluctantly said he would take the motor. Dad said fine, it was $50 (Dad was very generous and supportive of other car collectors, so I suspect that the guy must have said something before which he didn't like; hence the increased price tag). Before long the guy came and got it. This was about 1971.

Neat thread! I've got a 1923 Hupmobile 4 cylinder car, still running and driving. But I have always wondered about rebuilding my spare engine with modern techniques and materials. I wonder if tactics like reducing weight of the rotating internal mass, adding some kind of balance weights to the crankshaft, etc, etc, would be worth the cost and time. And then I wonder if you would need to reduce the weight of the flywheel as well? And would it be a mistake to boost compression at all? Would there be any value in larger valve sizes, smoother (slightly larger) intake and exhaust ports? But then my wiser friends from the old car club are quick to point out that my old touring car cruises easily at 55 mph now. And besides, it's only got 2 wheel mechanical drum brakes, which are external, with wood spoke wheels. They point out that I don't need it to go faster, and it runs fine like it is. Still, I do wonder sometimes...