Beemon

A lot of the stuff I do is overly ambitious lol ... at least I know this one will work and be reliable for the life of the vehicle. Is it every 6000 miles? I was told to check them every 1000 miles. It's not that I don't like adjusting the shoes by hand (even though it is), every time I crawl under there I spend more time than I want to because I either go too far or loose track because the tool slips and have to start all over again. The rears aren't an issue but the fronts are right under the king pins and are just more trouble. Also thanks for the link to the calipers. I admit I didn't know such a tool was needed. Before I get too far I'll be sure to check out the shoes again. How I had assembled it was I tightened the adjuster by hand until the drum couldn't slide over the shoes, then loosened it until it wasn't a tight fit but with slight drag. My plan was to see how well it performs for about 100 miles before peeking in there again. It's too bad I could never get the aluminum drums on there. With the modern hubs, it needs to be spaced about a half inch off the back of the spindle and then a quarter inch needs to be shaved from the tips of the backing plates (maybe more) for a snug fit. If/when I buy new front drums, I'll test fit them with the roller hubs.

Just a tech thread as I've just finished doing the swap today. Theoretically you can do this with any 12" Buick drum, but I have not seen anything smaller than 2" shoes. That being said, the 2 1/4" shoes on the 56 goes well above 1968, which is where I pulled the donor equipment from. I only pulled rear equipment off two cars because they did the front adjusters differently than the rears (and all the fronts were missing anyways), but the rears on the 56 are set up the same as the front minus the parking brake. Parts used: NAPA #UP2340 - spring kit readily available NAPA #UP80551 - left side adjuster NAPA #UP80552 - right side adjuster NAPA #UP80762 - adjuster return spring The adjuster arm, steel rod and override arm/spring were re-used from the donor cars as I could not find the part numbers and will be checking known vendors for replacements soon. Still have yet to pull the front drums off as the store didn't have a second spring kit on the shelf, but tomorrow I'll be picking up and pulling the fronts. With only the rears being self adjusted though, I noticed an immediate difference in braking and parking brake function due to the minuscule adjustments these systems accomplish. It really is unfortunate the actual hardware part is not made aftermarket like the 9" Chevy self adjusters. When classes begin on the 19th of September, I was going to stop in the manufacturing department and see what it would take to have replicas made. I don't know if there's a huge demand for it for the pre 1960 Buicks, but the system was obviously very successful to be used for over 10 years until the advent of disc brakes. Needless to say, these 68 Rivieras will live on partially in my 56 Riviera.

Funny you should mention this as I also had talked to the guy a bit at the beginning of the summer. He wanted about $750 for the pulleys if memory serves me right. For that price, I can live without AC lol.

Yes I'm still currently looking for a 4 barrel WCFB.

Only if you replace all the glass. The tint will be close, but not close enough next to the real thing. I guess it also depends on where they get the laminate from, but new laminate versus 60 year laminate is hard to match. At least, in my experience thus far. I've been trying to remedy a similar issue (passenger door) and finally found a piece locally. I can't imagine switching tracks to be difficult, but it's just flat glass so at the very least just swap frames. Probably easier said than done...

If there's one thing I've learned from speaking with Jon (there's been many), both on the telephone and from posts on the forums, is that every carburetor has different sized orifices and passageways engineered specifically for that model year engine. $600 really is a steal for a setup like that, too bad it doesn't come with the bat wing air cleaner. I put this undertaking on the back burner, put the single carb manifold back on the engine with the best of the two carbs and garaged it for the rest of the summer unless I'm going out to a cruise in. I just don't have the tools to drill the passageways with the precision I need. The air horn passages are not lead balls but tapered cylinders and the tiny passageways look to be plugged with small game shot pellets.

Some people may also not like the fact that the throttle blades are open when cranking the engine, or that you have to use the gas pedal in general. If the choke is set properly, the throttle blades being timed to open on start up is irrelevant. Buick was the only car company that I know of that had a less than normal starter system, majority of people who didn't grow up with it or are used to it probably think it's weird or stupid and just re-wire it.

I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point of me not knowing what I'm talking about or not, but I was referencing the wiring diagram posted above, obviously not the carburetor starter switch, which is not the starter relay...

I've actually been contemplating a swap like this because there is a huge dead zone in my gear box, even after a rebuild. Was there any modification to the steering column? Which brackets went where? I'd be more inclined to use a larger gear box out of a full size car, but anything would be better than my original unit at this point. The gentlemen that owns the yard I get parts from has a 56 Olds and he used a gear box out of a mid 70s full size, but then also sourced the pump that came with the car. He couldn't recall what model it was other than a GM full size.

When the engine fires, the manifold vacuum sucks the ball bearing up into a passageway out of the way from the butterfly shaft so it can never re-engage when depressing the accelerator pedal. Likewise, as pictured above, through the starter relay, the points armature needs to be grounded for the switch to magnetize the armature and pull the contact points into position. When the generator starts charging at engine idle, it shorts the circuit by opening the ground and de-magnetizes the starter relay armature. Since the switch bearing on the carb is now gone, due to engine vacuum, it will never make contact for the wires to back feed on the harness. You just hold the gas pedal down until the generator starts charging and it shuts off for you before you can even take your foot off the pedal. The neutral safety switch also opens the circuit when in Drive so theoretically it shouldn't re-engage while in D because it's just a wire that goes no where at that point. The only time the starter can re-engage during driving is if the contacts in the relay arc and weld together, as in my case, or if the generator is bad and there is poor manifold vacuum at the same time that permits the ball from being pulled into the cut out passage and you're in Neutral or Park for whatever reason. I believe some of the forum members here have converted to alternators and just grounded out the starter relay without issue. I'm not sure how much manifold vacuum is needed to pull the ball out of the way or how much the ball weighs, but they're just a standard 1/2" ball bearing you can get from a local hardware store.

Actually, going through this issue myself just recently, you'll want a 25A fuse to the switch. My new relay has a fuse slot for battery positive and when starting, depending on ambient temp, would blow the 20A but not the 25A. The shop manual, at least for 56, states approx. 18-20A goes through the starting system when cranking. The 20.~ is just enough to blow a normal 20A fuse. Back then, according to my Engineering division head, they didn't sweat decimals much and if it was 20.3A, it was 20A or good enough. Is your starter switch just the two wires with a normal push button? If so, you should just be able to push them back through the firewall and use butt connectors or something to re-attach them to the starter switch.

I wonder why he's getting rid of it... Nailheads are still big in that community.

The 4GC and WCFB should be nearly identical. By difference I meant difference in 322 production years from 1953 to 1956. The AFB pattern of 1957 and later is different. I really pride myself in setting up a clean 2x4 setup I just hate to take it off. But I also don't want an engine fire or any other hazards. The car is grounded for the time being other than a 5 min startup and idle to keep the gas fresh in the bowls. So far I've narrowed down the seeping to the accelerator pump plugs and the big plug behind the accelerator arm. The two on the front of the bowl at the bottom are dry.

I'm at a place in the road that goes four ways in regards to this situation. 1. Disassemble the 4GCs, pull every lead ball and reassemble. 2. Find a WCFB as everyone else with this issue does, lose the dual quads. 3. Mount an E-clone, lose the dual quads. 4. Buy Holleys, keep the dual quads. 3 and 4 I'm advised against doing, but 3 has had success on these forums and others. 2 is the easiest but the WCFB is rare for me locally and nothing online at the moment. To be honest, I don't feel comfortable doing 1. No one else has done it on any forum I've searched. I'm sure it's easy but you're playing with irreplaceable 60 year old parts with machined passageways and I don't want to risk it. Local carb shop said the same thing and the machine shop wants more than an E-clone per carb. As far as I know, both these carbs have never seen ethanol until they were put on my Buick - my first one last year and my second one a few months ago, both seeping. So assuming I make these repairs, who's to say I'll be doing them again in six months? I've never heard of this issue with a WCFB, which is why I've been searching for one. I've only been able to find a 55 with a weird number tag, will have to go back out and check it again but it was also missing the coke arm, and a 53 with a V8. Another yard has a 54 but the owner will only sell the complete engine and not parts. What's the difference between 53, 54, 55 and 56? Would I be able to salvage a choke arm off the 53 and put it onto the 55? Would a 55 WCFB even perform well on a 56 322? I would be more inclined to attempt these repairs to the 4GC if I had a back up but I don't. Yes I have two of them, but then if I pull one I pull both, etc. ...

The gas tank actually grounds to the car from the straps and bolts that it hangs from. If you completely paint all the components, be sure to add a ground wire to the fuel sender! Otherwise, you may or may not get a reading at the fuel gauge.

I believe the air duct tubes were the same for Cadillac, too? Could be wrong. I wish I could do this conversion on my 56, but I think the 55 and 56 system are two completely different animals in terms of duct work and what not. The crank pulleys will be your hardest challenge I think. Good luck!

Just wanted to give an update - if you're ever going to try the NAPA relay HR201, then make sure you use a 25 amp fuse instead of a 20 amp fuse. The shop manual says the starter solenoid requires 18-20 amps to start the car on a cold start. We finally had a cold morning with dew on the grass yesterday so I went to start the car and it spun over for a few seconds and then stopped. My heart sank because I really thought I messed the starter up until I pulled the fuse on the relay and saw it had exploded. A 25 amp fuse cured the condition. After a month or two I'll dig this thread up again with another follow-up but thought I'd share just in case someone else has a relay failure and can't find one of the rare, original relays.

I'm in a sticky situation right now where I may or may not need to remove the dual intake due to insurance issues, on top of the seeping Rochesters. I would also need to remove both from the car to fulfill the repairs, which I'm unfortunately not equipped to do so at this point. The carbs work great otherwise! I would just prefer to swap manifolds at the current time so I can still enjoy the car for what it is instead of it having to sit further. From what Jon said in the thread, it sounds like the wcfb is the way to go anyways. There's a stuck core at the yard I frequent off a 55 and there's also another wcfb that's also siezed on a 53. I don't know the difference in carbs to know if parts are comparable or not and I also don't know if a 55 carb will flow as well as a 56 given the different heads, so I thought I'd try my luck. I like the Rochesters, I just have two of them that need the repairs and the car will be sitting until I can figure out how to do them.

I apologize if this is a legit vendor but buying online can sometimes be dangerous. If it's not from someone you trust or is a long time member, and especially if they just made an account today to sell you something without giving information like where they're from, who they work for and additional contact information, do not deal with them. I will never buy from someone who just made an account today with zero posts. From the USA? What part?

Thanks for all the information. My father happens to be a bass fisherman so he knows exactly what you're talking about. I can't comment on the history of my second carb but I do know that my original unit was dipped in chem cleaner three times. I've only ever cleaned them with compressed air and dawn dish soap. Every other fill up I dump seafoam into the tank so I do not know if that would do anything to the lead and solder or not. As for dissolving lead or solder, I can get in contact with the chemistry department at the college and see if we can find some type of reagent in modern chem dips or sprays.

You'll have to see my other thread in Post War, but my dual Rochesters are seeping at the soldered plugs at both accelerator pumps. The car sat for a week while I pieced together another starter and when I opened the hood to replace the relay, there were droplets of fuel hanging from the accelerator pump casting. If I'm going to re-seal them, I have to take them off the car anyways. Plus as it goes around the forums, Carters are better with ethanol than Rochesters. It was a sad revelation but something that cannot be ignored. My other alternative is either the Edelbrock 600CFM or two Holley 390CFM carburetors. Neither of which work with the original wiring.

Title says it all, want to be replacing leaky 4GC's with a WCFB before trying to go aftermarket.

I went back down to the original rebuilder and asked him about where he got a replacement Bendix starter gear. He fortunately hooked me up with a brand new one, although he cleared the original Delco-Remy as working just fine. After that, it was just a matter of replacing brushes, getting the snap ring off the armature and re-installing. I started by putting a socket over the thrust colar and lightly tapping with a hammer. It fell off in one punch. I then used my channel locks on the open end of the snap ring and the top of the armature. I just closed the jaws to pry the snap ring out of the groove. Once starter, I pushed the rest out with a flat head screw driver and then it was a matter of pulling the ring up over the shaft. Pull the old Bendix off and put the new one on. I also applied liberal amounts of WD-40 white lithium grease to the shaft and pinion bushing. After the Bendix drive is on, just slide the thrust collar down the shaft. Per the shop manual, I put the snap ring over the shaft and used a block of wood to hammer it down to get it started (the rebuilder said using the snap ring again would be ok because it's fastened by the thrust collar). Simply slide it down the shaft and back into the groove. When re-installing the thrust collar, I used the channel locks again and just worked it up over the snap ring, seating it firmly in the groove. I don't know the name of it, but don't forget the bushing stop guy that slides on over the thrust collar. I installed the nose cone next, again putting grease in the bushing area. The armature just simply sits in the bushing. About the hardest part was putting the actual casing on, where you have to move the brushes against spring tension to get them over the commutator. Once that was on, find the pilot hole on the nose cone and push flush. The end cap aligns with the rubber boot for the solenoid switch. It simply pushes on. Screw in the case screws and you're done. Attach the solenoid to the case by first inserting the plunger, then the armature connector and then fasten with the four screws. Push boot over the opening and you're done. There was one spot I missed with paint by the service tag, but I since went in and used a blush to clean up. I wish I could get the overspray off without removing the red on the tag but I guess it opens up discussion for the history of the starter Paint turned out pretty good, too. I didn't paint the part of the nose cone that goes through the block, just behind it and the color is pretty close. I also don't know/can't afford a cad plater so I painted the end cap and screws/hardware (springs, arm) with a cast aluminum paint can, the same stuff I used on my pulleys. I think it looks really good. This is what I would imagine a NOS model to look like, except maybe with zinc plated screws and hardware instead of cad but I can't really complain. The switch relay also works great, too. I thought it was defective at first but the fuse that came with it was shot so I replaced it with a 20A fuse and it fired right up. I had to bend the base a bit to clear the vacuum canister because having it the other way put the ground and solenoid prongs on the wrong side. Also thanks Ttotried, you're right about the fuse. My mistake, I misinterpreted it's function, I was just excited to have found a replacement. All in all a very unique experience for me. I think this is half the fun of restoring cars, not that I'm asking for everything to fall apart again... lol I think my next task will be to tear down the generator so I can paint it the way I want and to check the brushes. The rebuilder just painted over it with black spray and I've seen NOS and junkyard generators with cad or cast mounting arms. Hopefully this starter will last me a long time! Thanks all for comments!

Does the carburetor on the 322 move freely? Tag #?

The car has been sitting for a week now since the starter went out and I just opened the hood today and noticed that both of my 1956 4GCs are seeping fluid from the blurry section of the photo (sorry it's hard to get a good picture from that angle). There are two of those cast filled holes on the accelerator pump, which I presume was filled after the passageways were machined. There was a lot more fuel than what's in the picture as I wiped it up before snapping the photo. I've read horror stories that these fall out due to ethanol fuel... is that correct? Obviously there is quite a bit of seepage for sitting just a week and now that I've seen it I do recall smelling gas beforehand. The intake is yellowed below this spot on the rear carb but I always figured it was the grease I applied to the linkage... My first thought was the screw hole above the accelerator pump, but it's dry at the base of the air horn gasket.