Beemon

I compared inside diameters of both the inner and outer bearings and they are the same. From what I read, it does need a shim of some kind.

I'm using ACDelco R43S, which was what was recommended. I didn't think about winter blends, I just filled up yesterday, so that may be the issue. I only ever run 92 octane, too. Thanks for the reply!

A little bit off topic, but I found a set of 45 fin aluminum drums reported to be off of a 1965 Riviera locally on Craigslist. They are the 2.25" width shoe and $200 for the pair. In everyone's opinion, would the 2.5" cast iron Roadmaster drums be better than the 2.25" aluminum 45 fin drum? I was thinking with the aluminum drums, I could use my original backing plates and put the Riviera drums on with the roller bearings, but then I lose a quarter inch of braking surface. Thoughts are always welcome!

Just wanted to give an update because I said I would. I got my power steering unit back today, so I had the system bled and took the car for a spin. Turning the wheel with my pinky felt great again and for the most part, the ride was smooth. It's about a 15 minute drive to the college from my grandfather's residence, and about 5 minutes in the car started running rich and lopey. At one point the car started shaking while waiting at a stop light. I cracked the throttle open at every green light where I could and the carburetor started to flush itself out for a lack of a better term. When I got to the school, I didn't have time to play with the carb or check timing (I keep the timing light, tach, a distributor ratchet and a screw driver in the trunk). When I got out of class, the car fired up and I drove it out of the parking lot. It seemed to start smoothing out and by the time I got home, the car was idling fine. I rechecked the idle screws by playing with them, they felt right around 1 1/2 turns out like before. When I stuck my hand over the snorkel air cleaner, it almost killed the engine, so that was a good sign. Dropped idle to around 350 RPM and checked timing, just a little bit advanced of 5* but not quite 7*. One thing I did notice, however, was that the car liked to choke itself when dropping the pedal to the floor. If I give it some gas and then drop the hammer, it's fine. My idle vacuum also won't rise above 17 inches, and in comparison to other vacuum readings on the net, it could be anything from a bad muffler, bad oil (need to do an oil change next) or late ignition timing. From idle to go, the transition is fine, it just doesn't like opening up the butterflies. Could it maybe also be that the throttle isn't pushing the accelerator pump all the way down on throttle up, and that I need to adjust the throttle arm a little bit? Out of curiosity, but since I had the block bored .030 over when it was rebuilt and my uncle rumored to have shaved the heads by a thousandth, what would be an adequate spark gap? About the only thing I haven't checked is spark plugs, but the shop manual says .035 gap, which is what I set it to before, and the car runs great in every range. It's just that sharp bark of the gas pedal that gives it a little choke. In any case, another Buick back on the road! I'll be driving it daily for the next couple of days to see if it clears up the stuffy nose issue or not.

I had this exact same problem. Readjust your rear brake shoes first per the shop manual and then tighten the parking brake cable until satisfactory.

I didn't even stop to think about using slave master cylinders. You see hot rod guys putting three manual master cylinders in compact spaces that all feed into one line. Your Fiat explanation just reminded me. Perhaps a bit excessive, but it's all manual brake power. The only thing I would change would be to make the two separate pedals one whole pedal, but I believe one is for a clutch. I know nothing about these systems to be honest. I'm also seen electric motor assisted boost that you can set yourself, as well as remote mounted master cylinders as these people did: I believe this is also an electric boost system. Their contact information is on their website, you can give them a call or email and see if they can help you out. Just some ideas.

Thanks for the tip, that will broaden my search. There's a yard 5 hours from me that has a 52 roadmaster but I didn't inquire, just 53-56 which they didn't have. There's also another yard equal distance from me that I'm waiting to hear back from. Edit: No go on the 58 plates, just found a picture of them and the hub bolt pattern is square, mine is rectangular. Same for 57. Though I have heard 52 may interchange, 52 and below have the rectangular plates but I'm not sure if they would interchange or not, so I'm sticking with the parts book. If the yard wasn't 5 hours away, I'd drive over with my Century backing plates and check specs.

The stock proportioning valve is also a residual valve. It has a spring and check ball in it so fluid doesn't drain back into the master cylinder because it's mounted below the wheel cylinders. I guess that's one pro to discs, there are far more available pads locally. I also agree with you. As I stated above, you really have to change the whole system and nothing can be left constant, including the stock mounting location. I've given up at this point on adapting "modern" brakes because the only way to really do it justice is remove the air plenum and put a hole in the firewall ad others have done.

I did some work looking at your design. I apologize if you saw my previous post, but mislabeled my information. With a setup like this, you might be able to net a force on the brake cylinder than is 8 times that of the initial force on the pedal, versus a pedal that's 3/2 in the stock location. By all means go for it, let us know how it turns out!

Thanks, this is one of the plates I was looking at on Ebay, they're part #5454167 so that's good to know they're not the real plates. I should clarify on what I meant by springs - I was talking about shoe springs, not coil springs... my mistake! Thanks again for the information, a great help!

I've heard the bolt pattern for backing plates are identical, the Roadmaster plates are just a quarter inch deeper. Bhigdog, can you post the plate part number please? I'm not buying anything for a while but would like to have it so I can confirm with ebay. I would also like to be informed or corrected on whether or not these backing plates will fit a century. I would order the drums from kanter, they have a warranty on their drums. When I purchased the rear drums, they were round and I've bought through them plenty of times. I have to order wheel bearings, too, and they're the only ones that supply them affordably. I was looking at CARS and they have Roadmaster front springs listed differently from Century front springs. I wouldn't think there's a difference, but would like to be enlightened on that as well.

Thanks! There's a few on Ebay right now and one Roadmaster shell at the local yard. Getting ready to get the car back on the road this afternoon and going to be going over the brake system very soon, the Roadmaster plates will help with the wider drum and shoe. Whats the part #?

Just out of curiosity (and because I don't own a parts book), but what is the interchange for front Roadmaster backing plates that fit on a 1956 Buick?

What type of system are you using? The original or your modified? If you're using the original, then the residual valve is built into the pressure regulator block. If not, then yes you need a residual valve for both the front and back brake lines. This keeps fluid from re-entering the master cylinder if it is mounted below the calipers, which it is in our case. It's 10lbs for drums and 2lbs for disc. How far are you planning to go Thomas? The whole system or just the front discs with the original system? I only ask because I hate beating a dead horse, but please take it from me: unless you are going completely modified and redoing the entire system, then go all disc/disc with a brand new master cylinder in the proper position, otherwise a front disc conversion will work with the stock system without modification to the rest. I'm not sure how far you've gotten, but my brake modifications have been almost as expensive as my engine rebuild and I have had little gains. IIRC you're better off finding a pair of aluminum 45 fin drums and pounding the original hub off and pressing the 56 hub on than going to a full on conversion. Discs on the front work just the same, but then its about whether you want period correct drums or discs. Here is my pitfall. I put discs on the front. I wanted more (and pressured by family) to put a dual master cylinder in the stock location. I went a step further (and also pressured by family to remove all drums) and put discs on the back. My braking hasn't been as good as I'd like it, so now I'm going to reinstall the original master and proportioning block. I'm afraid when I do, my braking will still be inadequate because I've already spent the money on the other parts. So then I have to take the rears back to drums and check if its inadequate before I go to the front discs. I'm hoping that's not the case because I spent quite a bit of money on the brakes that changing them too much would just mean putting more dead weight in the garage. The reality is that you can't leave one thing constant in the equation. Unless you can manufacture the perfect set of hardware to fit your system, you're always using a hodgepodge of components engineered by different people for other cars that were only intended for those cars. The front discs work, to what extent is conjecture and you hear differently from folks who are stock vs folks who have done the conversion. Personally I went to front drums because I like to drive my car yearly. It hasn't been on the road in 30 years, it needed to be driven. I live on hills and 20 miles from Seattle, where there is constant traffic and a small street race scene filled with hatchback Hondas and the like. I can't tell you how many times I've been cut off or my brake distance has been cut in half on both level and steep driving conditions where I feel the discs have ultimately helped me. But as to how well it's helped me is up in the air. They could be marginally better or worse depending on (at the time using stock MC) how well they work with the other equipment. They could be worse than drums, but only being 24 and never driven a car with front drums, I think they're better because they're discs. They could be better but I'd never really know unless I buy new drums and hardware and invest going back to stock (which I'll most likely have to do). What I do know is that car manufacturers went to disc due to their heat dissipation ability and other gains, but then car geometry has also changed significantly in the last 60 years as well. Sorry to ramble, the brakes on this old Buick has been something I've fought for, too. I don't like to admit failure in places I've been a proponent for, especially when I've spent quite a bit of money on said places, but that's the joy in learning from costly mistakes I suppose.

Another update: double checked points gap at .016". I had to move all my spark plug wires back one terminal on the distributor cap because the Pertronix was that far out of sync. Is that common? I couldn't figure out why the car wouldn't start so I had to bump the crank with the starter until the timing mark was in range, then turn the engine over by hand to set timing at 5* on the balancer. I then put the distributor cap on the distributor with the wires, marked with a silver sharpie where #1 was, took the cap off and then rotated the distributor so the dot and rotor were next to each other for initial timing. Car started up, checked the dwell and it was steady 28.5. I checked another source because my book was missing the page and Dwell is supposed to be between 26-33. Is the lower the better or the other way around? I any case, I waited for the car to warm up, just to be sure, gave it a good ten minutes. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't get it to idle below 800RPM. Well, when I set the initial throttle blade adjustment to 1 turn in, it was connected to the throttle shaft. I disconnected the throttle shaft and it allowed the throttle arm to fall forward (not by a lot). I readjusted the throttle shaft and the car was idling between 450-650. So then I set my idle screws, initially 1 turn out, to about 1 1/2 turns as a final adjustment at 450-500 RPM and it was running pretty smooth. Checked off idle, the stumble wasn't there and it let me go to the floor. The car also idles and runs a lot better without the Pertronix. Before it would idle hunt and do all sorts of weird things, now the idle is smooth and there isn't any surging or jumping. I haven't been able to drive it yet, my power steering pump should be arriving tomorrow (Monday at the latest), so I'll report back after a road test, idle post idle adjustment and another road test. From what happened today, though, I am extremely pleased with myself and how well everything has turned out. I'm sure there's still some stuff in the idle circuits that didn't get cleaned 100%, but every other fill up I dump seafoam into the tank so we'll see if it cleans up. On my other carb, I had a clogged idle circuit and the car ran like crap. I was advised to use seafoam in the tank, and under load going up a steep hill, the idle circuit was unclogged when I stopped at the light. I'm sure people have difference of opinions when it comes to additives, but it's helped me out before.

Okay I followed everyone's advice and.... We have contact! (Or really, no contact since the contact points are opened...) The battery is dead from over cranking it and not driving the car (supposed to get my power steering pump back this weekend), so I had to use my trusty test light. I just stuck it on the negative terminal and boy was I happy when I started rotating the distributor and having the light go on and off. I moved the connectors vertical like suggested and it pulled both lines away from the edges. I pulled the points back out and ran them over with 600 grit sandpaper and then sprayed with electronic parts cleaner and let dry before re-installing. Thanks for the tremendous help guys! I'll get to timing tomorrow when I get the battery back from Autozone and then back on topic!

I had a pm from someone back when I was looking for a ring and pinion, but the pm was deleted so I'm assuming he was dealt with or if it was the same guy. My rule of thumb is always more than a few posts under their username and if they're actively participating in the forums. When someone contacts you with parts and they have 5 posts and the last post was several months or longer, whether the offer is legitimate or not I would rather deal with someone I know is trustworthy on the site and can be held accountable if need be.

Just to be clear the carb would idle and start fine so I'm not concerned with that aspect right now. I was looking at the shop manual and it had shown a plastic horse shoe for the lead wire. I'm guessing it touching the housing is probably grounding it out? I don't have this part so I'll do as suggested and move it away by rotating the terminal connector on the points. The condenser is wired to the points as well but it's kinda pushed down, so I'll make sure that's not contacting the breaker plate as well. The grease is from me greasing the lobes and the breaker contact, I'll be sure to wipe that all down. I'll try sanding with 600 grit sand paper and see how it goes. Also the vacuum advance pulls the plate CCW so slack shouldn't be an issue. Thanks for all the feedback! The battery is almost dead from cranking so much so I'm going to have to get it charged tomorrow while I'm at the college if I can't get her to fire off.

Thats probably it because I didn't file anything. How would I go about doing that?

I don't know if I should start another thread, but I'm not sure what's going on here. Does this look right? I've cranked the engine to the point where I need to go have it charged. At first I thought it wasn't cranking because the ground and lead wire were touching, but they're separated now and still nothing. Could it still be the coil? I tested it with a meter and it checked out to the factory specs. I'm also running it across the ballast resistor. Maybe one of the connectors at the points is grounding out? They didn't seem to be touching the breaker plate when I tightened them down. Should the lead and capacitor connector not be touching on the terminal? Am I safe to think this is a ground issue? To be fair, I never saw the inside of the distributor when I sent it to be rebuilt other than a brief glimpse one year ago. What I've done is based off the shop manual.

I didn't notice the accelerator pump was broken until I had it out. It only depressed halfway, but was no big deal because the kit came with a brand new one. Still very grateful for the carb! A little update this afternoon, I re-adjusted the floats so now the fuel level sits comfortably at the peep hole. When I pulled the floats, the fuel barely seeped into the accelerator pump reservoir and was extremely low in the bowl. The fuel filter, at least when cranking, was holding fuel again like it did with the other carb so that's also a plus. Per the shop manual, I reset the idle screws to 1 1/4 turns out and the throttle plates 1 turn out from fully closed, so hopefully she's ready to fire. I also tossed the Pertronix. I picked up a set of points, a condenser, an OEM coil and 8 new spark plugs. Except wouldn't you know, the terminals on the coil were stripped and the parts store was closed when I got to it so more waiting. As for setting lobe adjustment, I didn't have the luxury of pulling the distributor at this time, so I was belly over inside the engine compartment trying to set the point gap with a .016 feeler gauge. The shop manual said no more than .0175 and no less than .0125, so I feel on the specific lobe, .016 will be a decent middle ground for initial point timing. The shop manual was also specific in saying to achieve the highest point gap possible, my feeler gauges went from .016 to .018 so that's the best I could do with what I have. I won't know if everything is working until I get a replacement coil tomorrow.

That's too bad really, that's a really solid car. Looks kind of like mine.

I don't think the carb you sent me had ever been in to. I found a cocoon inside the fuel inlet ports and the jet and accelerator pump were original as far as I could tell. The accelerator pump actually was broken and doesn't compress all the way and the carb must have had a fire because the primaries were deeply scored with soot. It works great now, it's just I didn't set the floats right so when I can adjust them and eliminate them as the problem, then I'll move on to the next problem. The carb was in really good shape otherwise, cleaned up extremely well but the surface was just tarnished on most of it so I painted it.

Apologies for not doing what I said I would do today. Between work and a perilous differential equations exam today, I didn't have time to exchange air horns. What I did do, however, was contact CarbKing and put together a plan of attack. Between studying, I was also doing some research on the side. Having a lower float level than the peep hole causes an atmospheric imbalance that inhibits the operation of the venturi and likewise having a higher float level causes the engine to dump too much gasoline. This pressure differential is balanced by the floats at that specific level for the purpose of proper venturi operation. So a lower float level creates an overly lean condition. As we were discussing via phone, compensating for this lean condition by adjusting the idle mixtures to be more rich causes puddling in the intake that bogs acceleration to the point of shut down. So, I can assume all floats are different despite their solder joint and will be bench testing the floats for proper fluid levels with the carb that is off and then swap floats between the two and continue bench testing. The key fluid level is the peep hole bottom threads, outlined in the shop manual as the correct float level, which is funny that their specification of 1 35/64" was too low in the bowl... also makes sense to have the primary floats sit higher due to the added volume in the bowl from the accelerator pump shaft... I must also admit right now that I have a pertronix ignition module. This question wasn't asked of me, but through my research I've obviously messed this up big time. No need to scold me, the speed shop that rebuilt my distributor almost one year ago talked me into the 'benefits' that I was naive about and didn't know any better. I'm picking up the points, condenser and coil tomorrow from NAPA. You guys must shake your head a lot at my threads. "Dumb kid, he'll learn eventually." In my defense, only two people in my family owned and maintained classics - my grandfather, whom cared for his Buick from 1956 to 1978 (when his son junked the Dynaflow) and is too old to help me or remember how to help me, and my father, whose eager to help and his earliest car was a high performance 1968 Dodge Charger with an alternator... if you get what I mean. Maybe my first carb was perfectly okay and it was the pertronix playing tricks on me? Who knows, we'll find out by the end of the week!

If that's the case, why would the shop manual specify setting the floats the same level? I'm assuming the floats are higher in the primary to accompany the added volume from the accelerator pump and power valve assembly? So if this is the case with the arms, then the float with the arm soldered higher would be for the secondaries since they would drop more? I'll be giving you a call later today when I purchase my second carb kit and a new bowl gasket.