alsancle Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 Hi,My father and I recently aquired this car (see attachment). I've set up a websitehttp://www.townisp.com/~alsancle which talks about its history. We are looking for any additional information or insight that you may have. There was numerous sightings in and around Boston in the 1930s. regards, A.J. SanClemente 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1956Packard Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Sorry, I have no info about this very interesting car.I would however love to see pictures in its current or as found state. Maybe posted here or on your website.....(hint)Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 What a great find, thanks for posting the info. Was the car built in Boston? I have a 1925 Henderson 4 Motorcycle powered Midget that came out of Boston that I'm tracing the history on, wonder where the sports and race shops were in the 1920's in Boston. Was this the car that was intered in the 1937 Vanderbilt Cup race as the Schumaker-Cusick Special, driven by Al Cusick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted November 12, 2005 Author Share Posted November 12, 2005 I'd love to give you some pictures as the car looks remarkably like the very last pictures on my website. Unfortunately I can't give you any current pictures as my dad committed to allow Fed Roe (author of Duesenberg: pursuit of perfection) to write an article for the CCCA magazine showing the discovery. Fred was the author of the original article. Hopefully that will happen in the very near future so if you don't mind waiting a few months I can post a bunch of current pictures.I'm sure there is some sort of race history somewhere as everything about the car says it was built for speed with the one exception of the long vs short chassis. I don't know if it was in the vanderbilt race but that is just the sort of clue I'm looking for!This is pretty neat in that it really was in a barn covered in junk! The man that had bought it in 1951 would talk about it around town but would never allow anyone to see it. He always referred to it as a Duesenberg. He died a few years ago and his son finally allowed my dad a look. The son remembers playing in it as a young boy (he's in his 40s now) We bought it with the understanding that we would restore it and allow the seller's son to see it and ride in as a memory to his grandfather.regards, A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 I have updated the website with some current photos. http://www.townisp.com/~alsancle Also, see attached front view.I would love suggestions on how to research the speed/racing scene in and around Boston in the late 20s & early 30s.A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I believe the front shocks on your car are from a 1930/1931 Stutz, not 1928. Stutz used the two piston Delco-Lovejoy type in 1929, and then switched over to Gabriels sometine in 1930 which is what your car has. That's a neat car. I do have to question the practicality of a 145" wheelbase race car though. I would think it would be a little "truck like" to drive & cornering would be a challenge. Most guys who made Stutz racers cut a couple feet out of the center section of the frame. I even saw one made into a midget car where they simply cut the back half of the frame off completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BruceW Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 AJ,There may be several more ways to research the racing but I can provide two suggestions.The first is the AACA Library & Research Center. It contains thousands of pieces of valuable literature on old cars, including some on vintage racing I believe. The L&RC web site is at http://www.aacalibrary.org/. A listing of the L&RC holdings up to M is listed and can be searched online, but the L&RC staff can conduct searches for anything not listed online.Contact info for the L&RC is:AACA Library & Research Center501 West Governor RoadP.O. Box 417Hershey, Pa 17033Phone:(717)534-2082kmiller@aacalibrary.orgKim and the staff at the L&RC are very helpful and can often provide information on very challengine automotive subjects.The second suggstion is the Eastern Museum of Auto Racing (EMMR) located near York Springs, Pennsylvania. The EMMR houses a collection of vintage race cars and artifacts, as well as a research library of rare books, documents, and photos pertaining all types of auto racing on the east coast. The EMMR Reference Library contains a collection of books, photographs, scrapbooks and weekly racing publications on micro-film.The EMMR web site is http://www.emmr.orgThe EMMR contact info is:Eastern Museum of Motor Racing P.O. Box 688Mechanicsburg, PA 17055 Phone:(717)528-8279 Hope these help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 3, 2005 Author Share Posted December 3, 2005 Thanks, those are great suggestions. The 28 stutz had single action shocks so ones on the there now are definitely later. The car is a bit of an engima in that many things about it say race car, such as the open wheels, exhaust about 2 inches from the passenger, no top, no windshieldwipers, all aluminum body. However, the long wheelbase doesn't make sense unless you were going to stay in a straight line. One of the stories passed down is that it was intended for some sort of speed run.A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 Thanks to Bob's posting above about the Schumacher-Cusick special I was able to track down the complete history of this car. I have updated my website at http://townisp.com/~alsancle with all the info.A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I sure hope the qualifies me as riding mechanic once the restoration is finished! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Would love to see a picture of the Packard engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 West,It is what I believe an early 30s straight 8 when the distributor came out of the head. I would charitably say it needs a complete rebuild. Do you need one?A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Could use a 1931 Super Eight block. One indication that it could be a 1931 is the exhaust ports are at a 45-degree angle rather than vertical. This could mean it's a 1932 or later, also. There's a number on the top of the driver's side front "horn" (engine mount) which will tell us what year it is from.Also, the length of the head should be around 36", while a standard eight would be about 6 inches shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Fascinating car and history...At a first glacce, it looks a lot like Ab Jenkin's "Mormon Meteor"...Glad that this example got hauled out of the barn in time ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 I will make a note to myself to measure it and get the numbers off of it.regards, A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I have a number of images taken at the 2003 Stutz Club meet held at Elkhart Lake Road America race track in Wisconsin. There were several Stutz DOHC & SOHC racing cars present and I took many photos. They are too large to attach in this forum so I will email privately in case they have any value in your interesting restoration. Oh, I see just now they have increased file size limit to 1meg, I'll put one here in that case. Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 I have one good shot of the drivers side which shows 4 downdraft carbs. I need to get permission to post it which hopefully I will be able to do but if you had one of those (for the single overhead cam engine) I would appreciate it. Fortunetly we still have the remains of the original outside exhaust manifold so that won't be too hard to reproduce.thanks, A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stude8 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Well I am not a Stutz expert by anymeans, there was Dual Valve Over Head Cam engine with 4 down draft carbs, I have a photo of that arrangement but the single cam engine was supercharged and had a "Vorsetzer" setup blower in front of the radiator and I believe only one carb somewhere buried in the hardware. Stude8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 I was able to get this picture off of eBay. Thought you might enjoy it. For those that don't know, I have a detailed restoration thread going here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrhd29nz Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 An unbelievable thread going on their!! just spent more than 2 hours reading it all. Simply amazing. Cant wait to see the engine in its home.Inspiring to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Too bad those Lee tire molds were busted up. Some company a while back had the molds and ran a few sets of reproductions (probably not the right term, since they came from the original molds). Whatever company owned the rights to the name "Lee" demanded that the molds be destroyed. Beautiful tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 It would have been nice to put the Lee tires back on. I tried a few different tires to get the right look and settled on Excelsior Racing Blackwalls. Similar look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Forum member Roadster found this for me. I have some period newspaper clippings talking about the car, but this is the first time I've seen published photos. This is Motor Age December 1935. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Thats cool.........Im waiting to drive it like I stole it.............. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I get to ride shotgun with the owner around Lime Rock when it is finished, I always turned down seat time for fear of being behind the wheel when something broke, at 67 I wonder if I missed anything. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: I get to ride shotgun with the owner around Lime Rock when it is finished, I always turned down seat time for fear of being behind the wheel when something broke, at 67 I wonder if I missed anything. Bob Bob, I used to be the same way. I've turned down seat time in some crazy cars (think big) because I didn't want to be responsible for wrecking them or blowing the engine. I've come around in the last few years and turn nothing down now. You can see Ed is not too worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 AJ, I promise not to rev it any faster than the valves can float............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 53 minutes ago, alsancle said: Bob, I used to be the same way. I've turned down seat time in some crazy cars (think big) because I didn't want to be responsible for wrecking them or blowing the engine. I've come around in the last few years and turn nothing down now. You can see Ed is not too worried. Does driving them make them seam better? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 I've noticed there is a big difference between a Model J and a Model A from driving them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 1, 2018 Author Share Posted July 1, 2018 Somebody has made my dad's birthday a lot easier this year. https://www.ebay.com/itm/153079965498 Nicely done in 1:43 scale by Autocult, this is the 1970 Stutz BB145 Schumacher Special! This is a Limited USA Edition of just 333 pieces! At the end of the 1920s Gustav Schumacher ran a mechanical workshop named “Schumacher – Motor-Service” in the city of Yonkers near New York. He was described as being talented in the fields automotive engineering, design works and metalworking. If he was aware, that the race driver Frank Lockhart did a world record run attempt on the beach of Florida on April 25, 1928, is not known. For his run on the beach of Daytona Lockhart designed himself a special car with an extremely streamlined body. This car definitely entailed something sensational back then. Lockhart named his racer “Stutz Black Hawk Special Streamliner”, which reflected the fact that the car based on a chassis of the company Stutz. Lockhart’s attempt ended tragically as he was killed in an accident during his run. But this tragedy did not deter the son of a very rich New Yorker industrialist from entering the business premises of the company Schumacher – Motor-Service and asking Gustav Schumacher to design and build him a similar car like the world record car in 1928. The real work for Gustav Schumacher began only after the purchase of the chassis and the engine. He sketched an open race car, which was strongly guided by the design of Lockhart’s record car. Due to the collapse of the stock market the wealthy customer lost a big part of his asset and was no longer able to finance his project. Gustav Schumacher ended up without having a customer for his special automobile. But the clever mechanic made a virtue out of his necessity, continued building the car for himself and used it until the mid of the 1930s. The model is brand new and comes complete with the original factory packaging. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Happy Birthday to your Dad! Nice model of your project. Just like the Lockhart car except for the MILLER V16, center seat, wheel pants, and minor body work differences. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 The detail I can pick from the first low-angle shot from the front indicates that the dampers are hydraulic rotary vane Houdaille. By means of different flow rate metering plug sizes for up-and-down axle movement, the damping is much more sophisticated than the friction rotary Hartfords that were also used by Mercer. In September 1980 Ralph Buckley gave me a blueprint of the chassis drawing for the 1916 115" wheelbase Raceabout chassis frame for Mercer, which shows clearly without comment Houdaille shocks. The same Houdaille units were used on a lot of wartime army four wheel drive Ford and maybe also Chev blitz vehicles, though other types may also have been used. The engine photo with the four downdraft carbs is fairly clearly the twin cam DV32. Stutz. In the middle at the top of the block you should find the cast number of the foundry pattern that was used. Near this should be the actual casting date of the engine block. The Stutz engine number was stamped on the horizontal surface behind the distributer on the front right hand side of the engine. The engine number of mine is DV30004. The casting date is ( from memory ) "60 27 28", which indicates 27th of June 1928. It is a late BB pattern casting. There is also cast on the left of the engine block the word SPECIAL which is upside down. Now if you check p261 of John Bentley's book "Great American Automobiles" the statement is that according to its builders, the DV32 incorporated "m the first dual-valve , double -overhead-camshaft principle in a stock car costing under $10,000, introduced after two years of exhaustive tests at Indianapolis Speedway and over the desert and mountain roads of the Southwest"". It is possibility that your car may have another prototype DV32. Another interesting possibility is that the first prototype DV32s could have been running around as un-recognised "sleepers" at the same time as the first prototype J model Duesenberg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 13 hours ago, Ivan Saxton said: The engine photo with the four downdraft carbs is fairly clearly the twin cam DV32. Stutz. Thanks for the comments. Rebuilding those shocks was a HUGE job. They refused to come apart. I have an engine shot from around 1935 and it was originally powered by a SOHC engine with 4 winfields and not a DV32. The engine shot of the DV32 in this thread is from a different car. The good news is that I know what most of the performance mods were from the original builder's son and we have replicated them carefully. I'm looking forward to a dyno test. The engine now has steel rods too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) Let’s see.......the motor has the four Winfield’s, custom intake and exhaust headers, hot cam, pop up pistons, steel rods, trick valves and valve job, improved oil system, tricked out distributor, ect,ect,ect..........I’m quite sure it will be the fastest single cam Stutz on the planet when it’s done. With the high speed rear, tricked out chassis, and light weight body........I can’t wait to take this thing to the Monterey Historics and thrash it around the track. We shall treat it as it was built to be treated. Coincidently That is our “shop motto” and the words we live by..........”Drive it like you stole it!” And we shall. ............? As fantastic as this car is, and a great piece of history, we will run it. With enthusiasm, but respect for what it is. It would be a sin not to display and run this car, to share it with others, the history, the design, an immigrant who came to this land and built a business and a dream. It's the story of America. Rest assured that we won't go overboard when we run it. But we will let her out to see what she can do.......... I'm dieying to do 100 MPH laps in this thing.....if it can be done safely..... as long as AJ approves! Now I only have to talk him into letting me have the keys and the car for a few days to "properly" tune it. Edited July 3, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 John Hancox and I have correct Houdaille 2 way dampers for our Series 6 Rochester engined Mercers . They are tough to get apart. Best way is to lock the cover with the 4 jaw independent chuck of a big lathe. then you can bolt a solid bar across the mounting bolt holes in the base. It is probably best to drain whatever oil is inside, and give a dose of ATF with a small addition of Acetone. The purpose of the acetone is not so much to lighten the viscosity of the ATF, but for the Non -polar end to help Wet and lubricate the thread of the cap. If you intend to really work a replacement Stutz engine in the car, it is smart to replace the original light cast main bearing caps with new caps machined form a good alloy steel. Grades that would be adequate include 4140, 4340, and En25. I can look up the analysis of these if you want it. Stutz knew they had problem with the centre main bearing cap. The engine from the Lebaron bodied sedan is engine # 91845, and the casting date is March 1928. The centre main bearing cap has a single strengthening rib. A second engine has a late April/early May casting date, and engine # 92335, The centre main cap has Two strengthening ribs'. Geoff Ringrose in Sydney has been running a BB for decades, with engine # very close to my # 91845. Once on a club run his engine developed a Knock. He shut it down, and had the car carted home on a tilt-tray. The centre main bearing cap was broken.... It is possible that Frank Lockhart was involved when those first few prototype DV32s were planned. All the main bearing caps of mine are massive; possibly 3-4times the strength of standard.. This also means that because the main bearing caps are significantly longer, then the energy stored through stretch in the studs is significally greater... This probably gives us clue to the reason for the Blow-up of the Black Hawk in the match race against the 8 litre short wheelbase Hispano Suiza. If the Stutz broke a main bearing cap, they could not have fixed it. They just had to cross their fingers and keep going ; and say nothing. I am well familiar with Hispano Suizas, and from what he had, 8 authentic cars are now restored, plus 2 with WW1 aero engines. I regard it as probable that HS had commercial reasons to ring-in that light, high speed semi-racing Hispano; But under section 12 of our Commonwealth Competition and Consumer Act, that would constitute Deceptive and Misleading Conduct, which carries a massive penalty. If you would like photos, I would be happy to email them to you A J. I apologise that I do not have a clue how to enter them into the forum: and I just cannot make the time to learn how to do something that does not seem to fit my logic. Regards........... Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 The model arrived fast. Looks pretty cool. My dad will be very happy so lets not spill the beans. Ed, if you want to go 100mph sitting between a couple of chassis rails 8 inches off the ground with slight skim of aluminum around you that will be fun... .to watch from a safe distance. Btw, there are two keys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Alsancle - the headlights are 1920's "E J Model 20" headlights, which were used on certain 1922-1923 Kissel Gold Bug Speedsters and after-market on other period cars. Original polished aluminum ones with original Edmunds and Jones badges and rear keeper washers are very very rare. There are good repro lenses available. Nice car! RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 Hey Ron, yes - I always thought the E&J lamps looked great on the Kissel. Fortunately there are guys making all kinds of parts. Problem is my dad restored these for me 10 years ago and at that point it was all about Halogen instead of LED lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 With a 12 volt system, you can run anything you want. LED's are the way to go all around except the headlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 How does this car, or any car for that matter get on the lawn at Pebble Beach? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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