Buried '57 Plymouth Unearthed 2 Days Early

[Guest BruceW]

The Tulsarama website www.buriedcar.com has photos of the Plymouth and time capsule items at:

http://www.buriedcar.com/photo_gallery_new.htm

[R W Burgess]

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Picture of TG's cousin spoken of in above post. I didn't try the attachment method yet. It seems some members operate the new forum well, while others have problems. I'm sure PeterG will conitue to work out the problems on this new site. "What's that he said?" Have patience!

Wayne

[R W Burgess]

test picture

[R W Burgess]

test picture 2

the post above has a picture that is way too big at over 1600. the one in this post at 800 is much better.

wayne

[R W Burgess]

Ummm, interesting. The large picture became an attachment, while the smaller one is already open.

Looks like a PeterG mystery.

Wayne

[Packard enthus.]

thank you for that VERY interesting material confirming your statement that the Ramblers had LEGIT rust-proofing in the 1950's. I did not know that. I am impressed. Being a snob, I have always dismissed anything less than the biggest, most powerful "super-luxury" cars of ANY era, as "wheels for the peasants"...certainly not with my time learning about. I would have to admit the kind of rust-proofing your literature shows, makes me re-think SOME of my prejudices !

Yes, there was some TOKEN attempt to protect car under-bodies with various kinds of under-coat, (my recollection this was typically a dealer option, usually way over-priced) but nothing by any other manufacturer, at least not that I am aware, that was anything as competent as what your literature shows.

Thanks for the info !

[RShepherd]

One thing that I've never understood is the fact that '41-'42 and '46-'47 62 series Cadillacs are considered full classics, but the 61 series are not. The '42,'46 and '47 62's are a little bit longer, but are really basically the same car as are the identically-sized '41's.

[Guest AlK]

Well to stay on topic, I was at the event the entire weekend and find no fault with what they did.

Fact, the car was buried, can't change that. Fact, they did the best they could in buring it, remember these were C.O.C. people not car people that buried it. Fact, they dug it up. Fact they had almost 400 cars on display for the the entire weekend. Not bad for non-car oriented people, and a first time for them to boot. As for the car, prior to the event there were 2 schools of thought, it would be a pile of rust or it would be pristine. Both wrong, It came up out of the ground worse than they hoped for but better than the doomsayers. Considering that Chrysler used the thinnest steel they could find for their late 50's cars I was amazed that the car was as good as it was. If Coddington could have been kept from getting his stinking nose into it, the whole event would have been better. Is there anyone in the world that is more of a waste of skin than Boyd Coddington? If there is I have not heard his name. All in all I would say the whole event was well done. They will now try to find out who is going to get the car.

[TG57Roadmaster]

Alk,

Does this mean you won't be forwarding your resume to Boyd anytime soon?

TG

[Guest windjamer]

Thank you ALK. for getting back on topic. With the new forum I thought I was loseing it. If they cant find the owner, just ship it to me, Im dumb enough to try and fix it.I thought it would look a lot better,but I guess they didnt cover it with cosmoline as I thought.Old Army saying, 5p,s Pryor planing prevents pi--pore performance. As for the new forum,,,,,Also old Army saying,,, IF IT AINT BROKE, DONT FIX IT....

[Packard enthus.]

for Sheperd - regarding his comments on the Classic Car Club Of America, and post-1940 Cadillacs.

You are right - it makes little sense, as the '41 thru '47 Cads. are essentially the same cars structurally and mechanically (with the exception of some cosmetic sheet metal, and some improvements to the Hydra-matic transmission resulting from World War II experience, taking advantage of the successful "beefing up" of that transmission used in light tanks).

Anyway - here's some background, to help you understand the situation better. Let me make it clear I am not now an officer of the Classic Car Club Of America; these comments are strictly my own.

For the first 30 or so years of its existence, the CCCA was composed primarily of ordinary car buff types, who really didnt care what the cars were worth - we just liked em for what they were.

In those years, we had a pretty clear idea what the word "classic" meant, when applied to automobiles. Taken form the dictionaries of an earlier era, we "knew" that "classic" had two parallel meanings, which explains why we adopted that THEN little used word, for the cars we felt were worth saving. If you can get your hands on a book I am about to recommend, you can learn a lot about what the CCCA was about in those years. The book is CLASSIC CARS AND ANTIQUES by Robert J. Gottlieb, a now deceased Los Angeles lawyer who was active in the Club from its first days.

In that book, he explains why the word "classic", as it was used then, was the correct word to describe the cars that we felt were worth saving. First, the word meant "unique, of first rank, representing the HIGHEST standard of excellence". Thus, as to cars, we were interested in the biggest, most powerful "super luxury" cars. An ordinary middle class Packard, Cadillac, or Lincoln was not of interest to us - only the best for us ! I distinctly remember the scorn I received when I showed up at an early CCCA event in So. Calif. with my '34 Packard Super Eight sedan, since it clearly was not in the same league, either in power, size, weight, top speed, nor interior fittings, as the 16 cylinder Cadillacs, Pierce Arrow and Packard V-12's that were present.

The second parallel definition of the word "classic" had to do with the "school of design" of "claccisim", meaning "form follows function". That refers to the fact that in a TRUE classic car, the fender, the headlight, the hood, the trunk, the radiator, the body, each stands out as a separate design element - the very antithesis of the "art deco" / "streamlined" era that hit in the late 1930's.

Thus the idea that a '41 or later car, with its headlights & grill, hood, all merged into the fenders, could EVER be considered a "classic" would not have occured to us.

That is..until the general car buff public changed its attitude towards us.

Once the idea of saving big luxury cars became "acceptable", values shot up, and EVERYONE wanted to call what THEY were trying to sell, "CLASSIC".

It is that simple. No question that a 1941 Cadillac of any series could be ordered with a high speed rear axle for sustained crusing at 90 mph or better, with air conditioning, power windows, and automatic transmission, pressurized cooling system..etc...etc...would be a more pleasant car to drive around in than a 1931 Cadillac V-16 Empress Imperial limo or town car.

When people have something they want to sell, they want to use "nice" words to sell it. So - there you are - once the word "classic" became a desirable one for merchandising, EVERYTHING is now "classic".

Please dont mis-understand - then as now, the CCCA has a policy of ENCOURAGING inter-mingling old car buffs at events - we LOVE 'joint events' with all manner of old technology buffs. My fondest memories of the old days, are when we had joint events with..well..antique train buffs...boat buffs...airplane buffs...other kinds of old car buffs...etc....etc.

But the fact is..you are RIGHT...today - there is NO logic to what people do when they babble the word "classic".

[Guest AlK]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TG57Roadmaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alk,

Does this mean you won't be forwarding your resume to Boyd anytime soon?

TG </div></div>

Was it something I said that leads you to this conclusion???????????

[Guest AlK]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: windjamer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you ALK. for getting back on topic. With the new forum I thought I was loseing it. If they cant find the owner, just ship it to me, Im dumb enough to try and fix it.I thought it would look a lot better,but I guess they didnt cover it with cosmoline as I thought.Old Army saying, 5p,s Pryor planing prevents pi--pore performance. As for the new forum,,,,,Also old Army saying,,, IF IT AINT BROKE, DONT FIX IT.... </div></div>

Yeah it was not as nice as a lot of us had hoped it would be. they can't tell when the water got in there, or how, as it was fairly well sealed. In any event they have 5 years to find the proper person or their children, grandchildren etc. etc. Then they have to find out if that person even wants the car. My hope is that whoever gets it, gives or sells it back to the Chamber of Commerce for them to put it into a museum, as is, untouched.

[Guest Skyking]

Who on this forum wants to bet that car will be at a soon to be auction by Barrett/Jackson for big money.........don't forget, we're talking about American people with too much money. Any takers???

[Guest AlK]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who on this forum wants to bet that car will be at a soon to be auction by Barrett/Jackson for big money.........don't forget, we're talking about American people with too much money. Any takers??? </div></div>

Well Barrett Jackson can have all of the money in the world they can't get the car until or unless they get it from the person who guessed to population of Tulsa today back in 1957. they have all of the guesstimates and it will take a week to get the correct one, then they have to find out if that person is alive and then track them down. they have 5 years to get this all don. At that time it was mentioned anywhere at the meet what would happen to the car if they could not find the winner. There is also the possibility that if the winner is dead and had no living relatives they could possibily give it to the next closest guess. so I think my bet would be that it will not wind up on B.J. soon.

[Twilight77]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My hope is that whoever gets it, gives or sells it back to the Chamber of Commerce for them to put it into a museum, as is, untouched</div></div>

With all that rust wouldn't it just decay away into nonexistance if something isn't done?

[Guest windjamer]

77 I saw only the pictures posted on this site and the news. It looked like the interior was a total loss, but if you look at the pictures close and yes my eye sight is lousy,the rest just might supprise you. I would sure like to see it after a high pressure wash. I thought the stainless looked da-- good, is the rust rot,or surface????? Wish I was there.

[Bob Kinker]

Check out this site for pictures of the Plymouth. The undercarriage shots look very much like Titanic pics!!!!

http://www.tulsachevys.com/Images/buriedcar/index.html

[Steve Braverman]

Wow, that is the most rusted thing I have ever seen. A person would have to be nuts to try to restore this hulk. Maybe they can recycle it into something useful, like a Hyundai or a lawnmower.

[Restorer32]

Years ago I went to look at a '47? Plymouth convertible that had been stored for many years in an underground potato cellar. Very complete car but you could literally poke your finger straight thru the sheetmetal anywhere on the car. The owner was upset because I poked my finger thru the upper part of the door. He wanted $500 for it but I wouldn't have taken it for free. I doubt if even one part of the car was salvageable. Maybe the stainless trim pieces if there were any, I don't remember. Even the engine block was rusted into a useless hulk. Wish I'd taken pictures. Some of the chrome was just that...just a chrome shell, the steel substructure totally rusted away. I suspect the Tulsa car to be a total loss. Who would want it? Might make a nice "how not to store a vehicle" article in Antique Automobile. Possibly a museum display but really there is not much unique about it. No different than thousands of other cars out there in the woods/fields/swamps slowly returning to Mother Earth.

[mrpushbutton]

It's <span style="font-weight: bold">GONE</span> the cosmoline protected the ouside of the car, which is why it <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">appears</span></span> intact body-wise, but the metal is as thin as tin foil due to rust from the inside-out. Those cars were not immersion--primed, just painted where they got painted going down the line.

Boyd's boys violated the "as found" artifact status by cleaning trim pieces, etc.

it's an artifact that should be left as is. You can dent the body by pushing with your finger.

[Fred Zwicker]

I bet someone could make a lot of money on this '57 Plymouth by doing the following:

1) Take hundreds of pictures of the car and locate as many news articles and other photos as possible - hopefully before and after.

2) Restore one-half the car (right down the middle). No engine work required, other then half of the outside of the engine. Do the same to the exterior paint, interior, trunk inside, chrome, tires, etc. (Would a half-restoration cost less than a full restoration?)

3) Leave the other half as it was when removed from the container. I guess the mud should be washed off, but no other work on the surface of the car.

* The car is worth far more half-restored than fully restored in my opinion.

The potential value of this car might be more than anyone could imagine. Old car displays in Las Vegas hotels or other locations would love to have this. Even the AACA museum might be interested. Or take it to the B-J auction and see what happens.

Fred

[MCHinson]

I was intrigued with this when I first heard about it. Disappointed with how it turned out. I think they should just give it a decent burial. I would drop it back in the hole, fill it up with dirt and put an appropriate marker (tombstone?) over it.

[Packard enthus.]

As I noted in an earlier "post", in my view, this whole "deal" was nothing but an advertising promotion. Again, there have been standardized technqiues for PROPERLY preparing machinery for long term storage, known since well before the FIRSTD World War, when we shipped thousands of vehicles to Europe, knowing they would be in a highly corrosive enviornment.

In this case, as I noted, the pool contractor who poured the "casket" was a licensed concrete contractor, who knew darn well you dont try and use poured concrete until it has "cured". That concrete "sweats" a highly corrosive vapor and liquid is not exactly late news - the Roman Empire, who made wide use of poured concrete thousands of years ago, knew this, and passed their knowledge on to subsequent civilizations thru elaborate engineering publications.

Tossing that thing into that casing after the concrete had only three days since it was poured, is in my view, the most definitve proof that those people couldn't have cared less about the car or its contents - they just wanted some publicity for their various products.

Given the promoters obvious contempt for the vehicle, I dont see why the general car buff public should feel any differently !

Oh..sorry..I forgot...reading the publicity nonsense, I forgot to say...it wasnt a 1957 Plymouth...it was a CLASSIC 1957 Plymout. Ooops...sorry..folks..I didnt read the latest publicity articles...it is a TRUE CLASSIC 1957 Plymouth....!

[ex98thdrill]

Knowing how TLC pays Boyd Coddington money to build cars on TV, and knowing how Boyd Coddington played a role in bringing the car out, I wouldn't be a least bit surprised if TLC doesn't do an episode having Boyd restore the car (or what's left of it) on American Hot Rod.

[mrpushbutton]

The rear leaf spring mounts rusted out and the springs went into the trunk--

<span style="font-weight: bold">IT'S GONE,IT IS AN EX-CAR,IT HAS GONE TO MEET ITS MAKER</span>

I agree with M.C.Hinson, re-bury it and put a marker on top

Boyd ain't gonna do Jack with it, there's no "There" there

[Twilight77]

I've seen Boyd send cars with very small rust holes to the crusher. Cars that us east coast folks would fight over. He wouldn't touch this one with a ten foot pole. She's done. I don't think it'll last another 50 years in one piece. I bet most of it will end up in a dustpan over time.

[Guest Ranchero79]

Regardless of how poorly the car survived, the buried Belvedere story sparked some great conversation with my father. His first car was a 1957 Plymouth Belvedere coupe. It is the car in which I took my first ride - the trip home from the hospital where I was born.

His Belvedere lasted until 1965 and was never garaged. He says the most interesting feature was the Plymouth ventilation - just lift the floor mats and enjoy the cool breeze!

[ex98thdrill]

I was wondering that when I saw it on TV. I noticed the car sitting low in the back but wasn't sure if it was rust, flat tires, or weight in the truck.

I can't say that burying a car in a concrete vault for 50 years and then digging it up and finding junk was a surprise by any means. It also makes you wonder what's left of the engine and transmission.