Return to Buick City?

[BUICK RACER]

This was in Today's Sunday's Flint Journal 5-14-06 with pictures, some of you are mentioned in this article.RV

Return to Buick City?

Club's national meet might return here

FLINT

THE FLINT JOURNAL FIRST EDITION

Sunday, May 14, 2006

By James M. Miller

jmiller@flintjournal.com ? 810.766.6318

FLINT - If the national board of the Buick Club of America agrees, the club's national meet will be held here in 2008 - the centennial year for General Motors, and Buick's 105th birthday.

The Buick centennial held here in 2003 drew more than 1,700 Buicks and thousands of Buick fans to the Flint Cultural Center. They came from around the country, from Europe, Australia and New Zealand.

Roberta Vasilow, who was president of the national board from 1998-2000, said the board should decide the location for the 2008 meet at the club's national meet in July. She was the vice president of the national board in 1997-1998, and its treasurer from 2001-2003.

Vasilow said she's optimistic that the 2008 meet will be held here.

After the 2003 meet, she said, "The Buick Club of America tried to get us to do it here every five years."

In 2003, one club member drove from Eagle River, Alaska (near Anchorage) to join a caravan of Buick owners from Seattle, for a drive across the northern U.S. Buick caravans drove to Flint from around the country, and Vasilow said that would happen again.

Jerry Preston, head of the Flint Area Convention & Visitors Bureau, said the return of the Buick meet would be good for the local economy.

"It's huge," he said. "It was a huge deal (in 2003). There were a number of people who said, 'I wasn't looking forward to coming to the national because it was in Flint, but isn't this great?'"

He said club members were impressed with the Flint Cultural Center; if the 2008 national does come here, the center and the Sloan Museum will again serve as the headquarters.

Preston said in terms of the economic impact of visitors, the 2003 Buick national meet probably had the same impact as the Buick Open did that year.

The biggest impact from the Open is in the final few days, he said, and a big convention like the Buick meet has the same economic benefit. The majority of those attending the convention are from out of town, so they rent rooms and frequent restaurants.

Vasilow said planners are now looking at a more low-key event than the centennial three years ago, without the banquet and a big program like the one held at Whiting Auditorium.

She said they are thinking about holding the car show part of the meet on Saginaw Street in downtown Flint, like the "Back to the Bricks" cruise in August, with a stage where bands can play.

Club members in 2003 could take a plant tour or other trips, and Vasilow said organizers probably would offer that again.

The 2003 meet included at least one Buick from every year, from the Sloan Museum's replica of the first Flint-built Buick to the latest models, and some "future cars" - Buick concept vehicles.

***

[Centurion]

Roberta, thanks for sharing this.

I've been curious whether General Motors has announced any plans for celebration of its centennial in 2008. Has anyone heard? It would be fun to see the Buick meet and the GM Centennial scheduled within a few days of each other, allowing BCA members to attend both events during a single trip.

[serb]

Roberta,

You are truly a gem and a wonderful ambassador for the BCA. Keep up the great work. It is too bad you do not have the national in Flint every 5 years.

I can't wait to go to visit Flint, the birthplace of GM and home for so many years for Buick. I have had many good times in Flint and Frankenmuth over the years. SEE YOU IN FLINT IN '08.

Stevo

[jscheib]

Maybe we should try a "straw poll" of the forum members. I say, go for it. Then I hope we could bring a National back east someplace in 2009.

John

[Guest my3buicks]

Yes Yes Yes

[serb]

If my sources are correct, the Flint Nationals is pretty much a go. The Buick City Flint people have voted to hold it, formed committees and are on their way to planning another great and wonderful affair. Maybe it just needs to be made official with the board at the next meet.

How about it Roberta....is this indeed fact?

Stevo

[BUICK RACER]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If my sources are correct, the Flint Nationals is pretty much a go. The Buick City Flint people have voted to hold it, formed committees and are on their way to planning another great and wonderful affair. Maybe it just needs to be made official with the board at the next meet.

How about it Roberta....is this indeed fact?

Stevo </div></div>

Correct. Needs to be approved by the BOD at the Board Meeting 9AM in MN on July 14, Friday.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Hi Roberta,

Is it going to be a non-judged meet again ?

[BUICK RACER]

Bill, that is the plan, there has never, ever been a judged meet in Flint.

[old-tank]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bill, that is the plan, there has never, ever been a judged meet in Flint. </div></div>

That's a bummer. Some sneer at judging in general, but to some it is important to get some recognition for the hard work getting a car up to standards.

Willie

[NTX5467]

Whenever we were up there in 1988(?) for that BCA National Meet, the lack of 400 Point Judging didn't seem to deter people from coming OR making sure their Buicks were as nice as they could be. Definitely enough "competition" to make one be sure their car was "up to standards", or beyond.

Although there was no 400 Point System judging, there were recognition awards given by local businesses and such. Not sure if that'll be the case this time. OR if there will be a huge parade of the cars this time either. Those things are up to the event planners.

Procedurally, the only "hitch" would be for those people who need to maintain their Senior (or other "certification") status with the 400 Point Judging every two years (Check the judging handbook for details).

Still . . . IF approved, it'll be a good reason to return to Flint!

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[BUICK RACER]

The Chief Judge usually allows for meets without judging to jump to the following judged meet for renewing awards.

[Guest 70 Electra]

As a "local", I look forward to a 2008 Flint meet with great anticipation.

However, since I am a relatively new (2000) member, I'm not sure I understand this long-standing tradition of "no judging" for a National located in Flint. I could see where it made sense at the 2003 Centennial, since the turn-out was staggering, but has outstanding turn-out always been the cause for no judging at Flint meets?

The Centennial was the only Flint meet I?ve been to, so I have nothing to compare against. Would the expected Flint turn-out in 2008 be so large as to make judging impractical again?

[Guest my3buicks]

Greg, Flint has had a good turnout in the past for Nationals, but other than 2003, not any more, and actually fewer than some of the other Nationals I have attended. I have always been under the firm belief that Nationals should be judged regardless (other than 2003). The fellow that just finished his restoration doesn't really want to hear he has to wait an additional year to have his fresh restoration judged - I think in the long run that can only hurt BCA membership and goodwill. The judging process is a MONUMENTAL task, but it IS one that needs done yearly. Just my own personal opinion.

[old-tank]

The meet needs to have judging. I agree that the centennial was a special situation and judging would have been impossible. The first BCA national meet that I attended was the 1988(?) in Flint. I remember the extreme heat, the great engine and vehicle assembly plant tours, the swap meet with only Buick parts. But the cars were a disappointment: most were local and just 'pretty good drivers'. I was expecting the cars to be at least as good as those at some local/regional brand X shows. No one with a fresh restoration is going to trailer a car 1500 miles to display it; and a year later that car will deteriorate even if placed in a museum. The 2007 meet out west will be judged, but will be out of reach for many, so you may have to wait 2 years to have a car judged.

Willie

[BUICK RACER]

Well, I understand your concerns about judging at the Meet, but like I said, we've never had a judged meet in Flint, since the first BCA Nationals, I believe was 1972, and the 400 point judging that we have today started in 1989 at the BCA Nationals in Batavia, NY. We had the Nationals here in 1988, and a Great Lakes Regional Meet in 1993, where nearly 1000 Buicks attended! What really occurs to me, is some of the feedback we got from the Centennial that folks, didn't see all the cars, or the other venues available, in the Flint area and would like to come back and not have such a stuctured timeframe for doing stuff or more likely hanging out with their Buick Friends and making new Buick Friends. Our whole outlook on 2008 and we may be the only ones actually asking to do a BCA Nats, in 2008, was to have a laid back, really fun event where Buick people can spend time with Buick people and their Buicks, and see the sites in Michigan that they missed in '03. Nothing more, nothing less. I understand the 400 point Buick that someone has worked on forever and wants to have it judged, but you know what? There is nothing stopping a Regional Meet from having a 400 point judged show, in fact it is encouraged, so the judges and those to be judged get practice for the real deal at the National event. I hope you understand our ideas for 2008 aren't to take anything away from a judged meet, but just to have some real fun with our Buick Friends and enjoy their company and their beautiful cars. There will be some awards, too, but not based on judging.

[NTX5467]

I was at the 1988 Flint BCA National Meet too, the first time I'd ever been to anything like that--especially in the home town of the marque. Prior to that, I'd been to some higher level car meets in the DFW area, where highly-overrestored cars vied for awards (including the Classic Chevy Meet in Dallas).

I was amused by a picture in the local paper of a Ford dealership mechanic that had gotten a tarp, put it in the back of his Ford Ranger pickup, and was enjoying a noontime-dip in it, as the "heat wave" of middle 80s was happening. At that time, I was in better condition than I am now, so the heat didn't bother me, but I was still amused at the statements by locals like "Get out of the heat before your brain fries!" A point of reference situation more than anything, at least to me.

I was highly impressed with the apparent support of Buick and GM in helping with the meet. The audio-visual presentation on the history of Buick (and related items on Flint) at the banquet was FANTASTIC!!! Plus Ed Mertz's comments as he previewed the (then-new) advertising tag line of "Buick: Premium American Motorcars". A tag line that was the result of much research (which he illustrated for us) as the "heritage of Buick".

Unlike Old-Tank, I was impressed with the 1200+ Buicks on display on the parking lot across from the host hotel, with all due respect. Seeing a 60K mile car with the original paint (in this case a '57 Caballero!) is something we just don't see down here in TX, too often. I was in the swap meet area one day and a white 1964 or 1965 Riviera drove up. The attendant raised the rope for him to drive in. He stopped and chatted with a friend in another swap meet space. In the conversation, the "just turned over 12,000 miles" comment was made. I thought, "Sure . . ." and eased over to look at the car after it was parked. What I saw was a highly pristine, unmollested ORIGINAL car. Every hose clamp where it came from the factory. Everywhere I looked that might indicate a restored rather than original car, I found original factory items ONLY. With all due respect, my conditioning in being around car events had prepared me to not find what I did . . . a completely original car.

The way the cars were lined up by model year was really neat. A walk down history lane! The displays in the lobby of the host hotel were straight out of Buick Heaven! Many factory drawings and graphics, which probably had never been out of the corporate air conditioning ever before! And the Lucerne show car (later to be the last gen Riviera), which I have a story to tell about that too.

At the reception, prior to the awards banquet, Wayne Meadlin and I were standing there with the newly-pre-relased "History of Buick" book when I looked over and pointed out Ed Mertz to Wayne. We then went over to get the autographs of Mr. Mertz along with Mr. Gustin and Mr. Dunham.

The BOC Powertrain tour was great too! The excitement in that group was energizing! They had just started shipping the Buick V-6 to Australia and Holden. Prior to the use of the Buick 3800, Holden had been using Nissan engines.

And then there were the seminars. The (late) professor that had the seminar on Billy Durant's life obviously knew that he was preserving history for future generations. A highly neat talk he gave!

After going to that meet and seeing what it cost, I started going to a national-level car meet each year after that. I've missed about three years (including this year), but there were several years that I did two per year, so that evens things out. I also decided that when I did another one, flying in, I'd have a rent car and the keys in my pocket so I could go exploring if I wanted to. In other words, although it was not a judged meet, it was a great meet to me. LOTS of great people to meet for the first time. LOTS of good looking Buicks to see, admire, and (many) to see for the first time. And that 1000+ car parade, that was awesome! The streets were lined with people and expensive (back then!) video cams getting it all on tape (of course, we waved like we were celebrities!).

I know that much of what we saw in 1988 has been "removed" and there just isn't as much there as there used to be. Back then, much of what I read about was "somewhere else" in the area, but now I know where a lot of it is. Not to mention what's in Detroit itself! Or the smaller facilities that dot the map of the Detroit/Flint/Ann Arbor/Lansing areas! Sooooo much automotive history up there--period! I'd welcome another Buick "meet" to be up there to see more of it!

But then, I will not be bringing a car up there to show. I'll be flying in and getting a rent Buick in Detroit (as I did last time). Therefore, the whole judged show issue is not that big to me, other than a draw for those that desire to have a judged show in Flint. It's always good to see the cream of the crop at a national-level marque show . . . and I also respect the time, effort, money, and expertise that made it happen. I also respect the non-judged tradition of Buicktown Chapter hosted BCA National Meets in Flint.

I know what it's like to get 100 cars judged in time for the awards banquet THAT NIGHT, PLUS building the awards for those presentations too. I'd hate to think of the manufacturing assembly line necessary to do the same for 1000 judged vehicles! Not to mention the procurement issues of getting that much award stock to make them!

In 2003, there just didn't seem to be quite enough time to get to everything that we might have gotten to. I agree that in 2008, perhaps we can get those loose ends tied up? Maybe even some of the loose ends from the Kokomo meet too (i.e., meeting people)? I also understand that 2003 was one of those "lifetime" events,so to expect the possible 2008 meet to be of the same intensity and size might not be accurate, but I feel that it could be similar to the 1988 meet in many respects.

I understand the orientations of a freshly-restored Buick making its first public debut at the 2008 BCA National Meet and being judged via the 400 Point System and winning a high level award, first time out, on a car driven all the way to the meet from "across the country"--an awesome situation, for sure. But I also understand why the particular tradition is what it is (and the logistics of doing a 400 Point System judging on THAT many vehicles). Somewhere between those two orientations, perhaps a compromise can be reached?

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[BUICK RACER]

Willis, Once again thanks for your input on things to be with the BCA Nats, I spoke with Harold Calhoun, our assistant Chairperson for the 2008 Nationals, and he agreed that we need to be a non-judged meet and just have great fun with our Buick Friends, just look at the Buick Roster under Bylaws of the Buick Club of America, Article 1 Name and Purpose and read what it says, about the BCA, We joke about this, but it says "read it and see" And it's the truth! WE are family!

[Guest my3buicks]

This could be a heated debate in the future, I have received several emails since this thread started - many wanting this question to be posed in the Bugle to see what the membership feels.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Willis,

With your liking of Nationals, you realize that the Oldsmobile Nationals will be in the DFW area at the end of the month ? Judging is 6/30.

Non judged in Flint is disappointing as by then I will have a car ready to be judged. I dont know if I can keep it pristine until 2009. I dont know if I can keep from driving it till 2009.

One of the reasons I look forward to going to the Buick Nationals is the judging aspect. Both Dee and I enjoy judging the cars as well as meeting our friends.

[NTX5467]

Yes, Bill, I am aware of the Olds meet in Addison. I also know that the judging is on Friday, 06-30. OCA does their judging on Friday and the awards presentation is the next day. I was advised (by Murphy Walker, who I know and lives closeby) that Friday was the best day to go . . . so I scheduled that as a vacation day at work.

I believe that, historically, the OCA meets are a little larger than similar BCA meets (possibly other than the Buick Centennial Celebration).

As I mentioned, my perspective on the 2008 Flint meet proposal is a little different than somebody that's going to have a car on display (or judged) up there. I respect and understand both sides of the discussion of "judged" or "non-judged" for 2008 in Flint.

Thanks,

NTX5467

[The Old Guy]

There has never been a judged meet in Flint! Having a discussion about it is fine, but having the membership vote on it is pointless! If someone wants to have a judged meet in 2008, all they need to do is approach the National board with their proposal. If the board likes your proposal better than the one presented by Roberta and Harold, then you can have have your "judged meet" where ever you want

[BUICK RACER]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There has never been a judged meet in Flint! Having a discussion about it is fine, but having the membership vote on it is pointless! If someone wants to have a judged meet in 2008, all they need to do is approach the National board with their proposal. If the board likes your proposal better than the one presented by Roberta and Harold, then you can have have your "judged meet" where ever you want </div></div>

Might as well cut to the chase, if the BOD says on July 14 at their meeting that we must have a judged meet at the 2008 Nationals in Flint, then you better find another place to have the meet, cause this is a Buick Homecoming in Flint, with a plan to kick tires and have fun with our Buick friends, and for them to see the sites in Michigan that they may have missed in '03. Please read Article 1 of the BCA Bylaws, says fellowship, experience, and socializing amougst the members, and that's all we wish to do. Judging is ok, but in Flint it's all about fellowship and not your Buick, but your relationship with other BCA Members and having the time of your life not cleaning and prepping a car, but having fun with your Buick friends. How many of you didn't see, enough Buick folks you wanted to meet in person, in '03, LOTS! So this meet is to give you a chance to meet those folks, and have fun. And if you don't like that then, I suggest you get your chapter that wants to put on a Judged National to get on it now, and propose to do it! We are not changing our plan, sorry, but no way, there are too many things already set up, to change at this point.

[Centurion]

Thanks for making the Buicktown Chapter's position entirely clear, Roberta. What you're saying makes perfect sense to me, and it's why I look forward to the meets in Flint.

Meanwhile, judging is part of the program for Rochester next month and in Seattle next year. We're working to make the Seattle '07 meet as fun and unique as possible, and hope that everyone will give serious consideration to traveling to the great Pacific Northwest. Please be sure to stop by the 2007 National Meet table while you're in Rochester.

[BUICK RACER]

Brian, I'll see you in Rochester, and planning on Seattle in '07 too, Roberta

[Guest my3buicks]

Roberta, I don't think anyone has the 08 meet in mind to change - there is far to much planning to change once the ball gets rolling, I think the focus is on future events.

[BUICK RACER]

Keith, I hope that is the case, we want to have a kick tires, get back to meeting everyone that is there and have a great time with our Buick Friends, new and old, learn some things about each others cars and make best friends. What a great meet it will be, if we can do it, especially in Buicktown, even though it doesn't mean much in the new world, it was the best in the best of times for Buick and General Motors, in the beginnine@

[NTX5467]

I went back and re-read Keith's post on national meet judging.

I saw what Keith posted in his question. I have seen the comments in response, just as y'all have. Although a particular year was not mentioned, the responses seem to have interpreted Keith's post as regarding the BCA National Meet in 2008 (as non-Flint BCA National Meets have been 400 Point System judged)--just the way it appears to me. Perhaps I'm missing something?

As I mentioned, my orientation is a little different as IF Flint gets the 2008 bid, I'll be in a "rent Buick" rather than having a "show Buick" up there. If I was doing a restoration that I wanted to have judged and it was on schedule to be ready for the 2008 BCA National Meet, I'd be concerned about the judging issue too. OR . . . if Flint got the 2008 bid AND my Buick was going to debut at a judged BCA National Meet, IF that was an overriding issue, I might slow things down and plan it for 2009, going to Flint in 2008 (if they get the bid) and having some fun for a change (rather than doing the "show car thing"). Perhaps some peoples' schedules are not that flexible? Or funding has to happen at a particular time or it doesn't happen? Many variables! Many possibilities!

Trophies, awards, and recognitions are great . . . but is that all that a BCA National Meet (or anybody else's) national meet about? Personally, I've been deeply involved in two BCA National Meets (which were fun to do and I do not regret it one bit!) plus orchestrating judging for about 10 years in a local car club's yearly show (a non-Buick group), and knowing what it takes (by observation and involvement) to get a car ready to show "at its best" on the show field.

At the present time, all I might want are "nice" and "neat" cars and not "show" cars. If I had the place to keep a "show" car (and EXTRA money to finance one!), I might be more excited about having some--maybe later. I know that many people put a high emphasis on having a winning "show" car--nothing wrong with that at all, but sometimes I wonder if that emphasis might be a little too intense?

These are some general thoughts that I've had on the judging/BCA Nationl Meet issue, not meant to be "about" anybody in particular, just thoughts and observations in general. No more, no less.

Personally, professionally, and operationally . . . this does NOT need to be an issue that will OR can divide the group. There are LOTS of other issues that should be more likely to do that!

All I can say is for the Buicktown Chapter to give it their best shot and see what happens. I know how many cars showed up in 1988 (before the 400 Point System was implemented AND judging at BCA National Meets became an issue) and really see no reason that at least as many great looking Buicks (from near to Flint or Afar) might attend in 2008. IF the meet not being 400 Point System judged is a significant enough issue to keep people (and their Buicks) away, that's the individual BCA Member's judgment call. And it's also a consideration which the BCA Board will have to be cognizant of, with all due respect, just as how many potential BCA members might attend a particular BCA National Meet at a particular venue.

At this point in time, if the Buicktown Chapter might desire to alter their bid to include 400 Point System judging, it might be possible to get things changed before the bid is presented to the BCA Board . . . but we already know their stated and re-stated position on that issue. It might be possible that a motivated BCA chapter might have time to get an alternative 2008 meet bid together, but it would take a good bit of immediate energy to get the bid together PLUS getting the chapter operatives to agree to do the whole deal. Not impossible, just improbable. Maybe there's already an alternative bid in the works? Guess we'll have to wait and see . . .

Just some thougths.

Respectfully,

NTX5467

[The Old Guy]

I have driven a Buick to every National meet since 1971, and I look at the meet more as a reunion than a car show. As the meet moves around the country, you see many special Buicks that do not stray far from their home area. You also see friends with their latest Buick and get a chance to enjoy their company.

I concur that the 400 point system has raised the level of restoration to new highs, but it has also reduced the average member from the mix! It has become prohibitevly expensive to redo a Buick (or any car) to concurs quality. The driven and archival judging has helped immensely, and in conjinction with the "modified" division, will get younger people involved.

Long live the BCA