Driver To Face Trial For Fatal Classic-Car Crash *DELETED*

[Paul Dobbin]

This case illustrates why Lawyers file suits no matter what the facts are.

With a few claims of this or that and we all become experts about something known of only by others faulty opinions or facts.

From all the posts to this topic, perhaps the surviving driver should sue the deceased. We the jury sure seam to be hung, or should be hung.

Now you know why $20,000 a month for the color ad on the back of the phone book is a good buy. All Lawyers!

[oldpacrats]

i can hardly believe all this hype because some idiot ran a stop sign. pretty black and white issue, be it ford pinto or duesenburg, seat belts or not, one guy ran a stop sign. period

[Dave@Moon]

Thanks Carl,

That's the first state I've seen where the child restraint law is specifed <span style="font-style: italic">within</span> the seat belt statute exemption for older cars. It doesn't exactly make doing without a good practice, but at least you know where you stand.

[Guest sixpack2639]

TBH Dave, I feel safer in my 51 Buick with no seatbelts than I do in my 95 Buick with seatbelts and air bags. Mainly because the 51 is real metal and not inside out Coke cans!

Carl

[Guest imported_CarFreak]

Post deleted by CarFreak

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> TBH Dave, I feel safer in my 51 Buick with no seatbelts than I do in my 95 Buick with seatbelts and air bags. </div></div>

What you "feel" and what you <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> are two very different things. Ask your insurance actuary which one he thinks is safer! Only a fool would believe himself rationally to be safer in a '51 Buick, and I'd spend all day in one tomorrow if given the chance.

There are risks to what we do. Ignoring them or dismissing them makes them worse.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Placing children in a car without seat belts/or not belting them in is a criminal act. </div></div>

Not according to the State of Michigan.... </div></div>

This is another interesting question. Could child endangerment charges be brought in a case like this <span style="font-style: italic">even though</span> the lack of proper restraints is specifically permitted under state law? Bear in mind that just because you're allowed to do something (i.e. give a 4 year old a lighter and some shotgun shells) doesn't make it a good thing to do.

Notice I said "could", not "should". Prosecutors have been known to stretch further to get indictments!

[Buicks Rule]

For what it's worth, the seat belt issue is probably embedded in the original federal requirement that mandates front belts in 1965 and front and rear belts in 1966. The states where belt use is required, as I have heard from friends, do not require the retrofitting of belts into cars prior to these years but IF the car is new enough to have belts, then they must be used.

Let's talk about people riding in the beds of pick up trucks for awhile.....

I suspect that the law may be silent on the specific issue of child safety seats being required in an antique car of date of manufacture prior to that which required seat belts. Safety seats attach to belts. No belts, no point of attachment.

My cars are all steel bodies. They have seat belts. Everyone that rides in them uses the belts. My car, my choice of rules. I do not have kids and would probably NOT choose to put kids of safety seat age belonging to others in my collector cars.

That said, the kids riding in the Duesie were riding with their parents who had restored the car. The kids may have even helped work on the car. Their REWARD for 'helping' was probably the ride in that very special car. If MY DAD had the chance of driving a Duesie, there is no force on earth that would have stopped me from riding in that car. Same for riding in the mother in law running board seat on a Mercer Raceabout.

Dave-I agree with you, and others, that it's probably in our best interest to attach some reasonable seat restraints in our collector cars as some minor protection against the actions of 'the other guy.'

On the other hand, one wonders if the modern drivers expectation that the car will allow him/her to walk away from even severe crashes with minimal injuries doesn't lead people to take chances the might not otherwise take. We've all seen the moron with the cell phone on one hand, coffee in the other, steering with an elbow while eating a bagle at 85 mph in traffic, scanning the newspaper.

[Guest sixpack2639]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What you "feel" and what you <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> are two very different things. Ask your insurance actuary which one he thinks is safer! Only a fool would believe himself rationally to be safer in a '51 Buick, and I'd spend all day in one tomorrow if given the chance.

There are risks to what we do. Ignoring them or dismissing them makes them worse. </div></div>

Dave, I agree 100%.

BTW (in my best southern drawl) My Mama raised ugly chillen, she didn't raise no fools! LOL

[R Walling]

I am working on a 1931 Essex, and after looking at the canvas top; I have incorperated a roll bar into the roof under the headliner.

I hope no one will mind this "unauthorized" addition.

Ps, Seat belts also!

[DizzyDale]

Dear Roger,I too am installing a full Nascar style roll cage in my ALL ORIGINAL 39 Zephyr coupe,gotta tell ya am having a tuff time incorporating some of these bars into the interior of the car.Does anyone know of a source for fire retardant wool broadcloth?.Have you checked out the price of the Simpson full face helmet?Do you THINK the judges at The Early Ford V-8 meet will notice that the car is NOT exactly as Mr.Ford built it.diz

[6219_Rules]

I believe my '56 has seat belts in front (I can see the ones in back). If they are there, I will use them.

I am not eager to be killed in an auto accident. My only concern on pre-war cars is how to fix the belt so it is secure. With all the wood involved in the car's construction, could this be a problem?

[Shop Rat]

Diz, You race so you understand the value of seatbelts and other safety items.

This is a photo of the car after one of Bill's worst wrecks. It was the first time there was damage to the hood. It happened at between 85 and 90 m.p.h. He had a few bruises on his arms but that was it.

His worst wreck demolished the car and all he got was bruises and a slightly sore ankle. We had to replace most of the car that time including a new chassis.

[R Walling]

Note to Dizzy Dale, I meant to say that the roll bar is between the headliner and the roof. It is not visible. It is made of 1" x 2" square tubing 1/8" wall thickness. Not exactly NASCAR, but better than cloth.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Roger,WHAT'S supporting it?diz

[olcarherb]

What happens when you put the top down? Is the rollbar retractable like some of the newer Mercedes roadsters?

[Dave@Moon]

I think it's pretty obvious that Roger is talking about a hidden reinforcement in the roof of a sedan. It certainly can't hurt anything (even if it's only held by the body structure it'll make that more rigid/secure), and is probably a good idea.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Dave,What i was thinking was THIS reinforcement if NOT installed properly COULD be the first thing to hit you in a roll over.diz

[Barry Wolk]

My thoughts exactly. Just putting in steel won't help much unless it's engineered to carry the load. Many a race driver has been trapped in their car by a collapsed roll cage. IMHO, You're just making matters worse by putting additional weight above the center of gravity.