Frank Dialogue re: BCA Forums

[Centurion]

The regulars on this forum know that I check in here frequently and make an effort to contribute to the extent that I can. I appreciate this forum and the strong level of participation here. I've learned a great deal from many of you. As noted in another recent post, the Buick Club forums are the most highly utilized of all the forums in the AACA system.

I have concerns, however, that I want to address with you all, and I hope that Roberta (our moderator), the BCA Board Members, and all the regular forum participants and visitors will provide some input and perspective.

The Buick Club of America embraces all Buick enthusiasts, and is "dedicated to the preservation and restoration of the automobiles built by Buick". My concern here is that our forum is serving only a small slice of our total membership. BCA members who own earlier Buicks -- those built prior to WWII -- are not being particularly well-served by this forum. I think that many of you would agree with me that the BCA should want to maintain enthusiasm and active participation among owners of early Buicks. Since the BCA commits resources to making these BCA Forums available, I think it's important to consider ways to make these forums a useful tool to as many of our members as possible.

My concern for owners of the earlier Buicks prompted me to enter the following post this morning on the AACA General Forum:

http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/showflat....;o=&fpart=1

I think that Howard Scotland's response to my AACA post was instructive, and he confirmed some of the thoughts I've had about creating some additional forums here for Buick Club members. [Edit note: Be certain to read the responses on the AACA Forum from fans of pre-war cars who no longer read our forum because almost all topics relate to the post-war cars.]

For a long time, I have been reluctant to suggest anything that would fragment our forums here. I've checked out the V8Buick.com forums for comparison, and I have not been excited about the fact that there are so many different categories for posting items. Whenever I go to that site, I find myself wondering where I'm most likely to find any items that interest me. When I come here to the BCA General Forums, in contrast, I know that I will always find items of interest.

There's no denying, however, that the V8Buick forums have been enormously successful, particularly among the performance-oriented Buick people. There are probably many reasons for that, but perhaps the opportunity for forum participants to "zero in" on categories of particular interest is a major factor. I can't help but think that some of the people on V8Buick -- particularly those with the Buicks from the 1950's or earlier -- might have been better served here. For Smartin and others who routinely utilize the V8Buick forum, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts regarding the success of that forum. What can we learn from the success of that forum, or is it simply that the audience that forum has targeted is much more likely to utilize the Internet for Buick discussions?

It's also useful to look at the Reatta forum here. By establishing a forum dedicated to the Reatta, the BCA has created the single most popular forum in the AACA system. If you have an interest in the Buick Reatta, it's pretty clear where the action is.

So, I want to throw out a proposal here for a re-organized BCA discussion forum. I would like to keep things as simple as possible, and I also realize that our forums here operate under the authority of the AACA. Many of you may also think that the forum works just fine as it is. If it's not broken, why fix it, right? Here's a trial balloon:

BCA General Discussion Forum: for BCA event notices, club business, or items of general Buick interest

BCA 1903 - 1930 Buick Forum: for technical questions and discussion relating specifically to these early Buicks

BCA 1931 - 1953 Straight-Eight Buick Forum: for technical questions and discussion relating specifically to the straight-eight Buicks

BCA Buick V8 Forum: for technical questions and discussion relating specifically to the V8 Buicks from 1953 and newer. (I foresee much of the current forum activity falling into this category.)

BCA Buick V6 Forum: for technical questions and discussions relating specifically to the V6 Buicks. Would this be an appropriate place for those with the V6-powered Buicks built from 1962 - 1967, however?

BCA Buick Reatta Forum: would continue doing what it does so well.

BCA Buick Performance Forum: for technical questions and discussions relating to performance modifications to all Buicks. Or, should this be discontinued with the assumption that people will post in the appropriate V8 or V6 category?

BCA Buick Buy/Sell Forum: would continue doing what it does so well.

How about it, folks? Is there some merit to this discussion, or do I just take this all too seriously? Are there better ways to get the early Buick owners interested?

[chub chub]

personally i like the idea. i also use the www.buicks.net forum. i appreciate that they have a category for straight eights. you may want to check them out for ideas. as far as a performance section, i personally would post under straight eights, but the s-8 is a very different monster. others may prefer a performance section.

[BigFella]

Hi Brian,

Your post and topic does have some merit. You even answered part of your own question! The V8 forum can be kinda overwelming (sp?) and if you add more categories here or break them up would you create the same thing here?

The simplicity of this forum may be one of the reasons alot of folks visit and post. Maybe you just add a new group for the pre-war or pre '53 Buicks? The hardest part of the question is how to break it out, even if your just adding one new group. If your goal is to make it easier and bring in the "pre-" or "brass-era" Buicks, then maybe you just add the one group for them and see how it goes? Kinda like an experiment. If it goes well then see what others could be broke out without making the forums seem daunting to the newcomer or losing content because less people look at them. Myself I like reading most of the posts about all the years. It's all pretty interesting stuff and provides me the oppotunity to learn more Buick...good, bad, and sometimes ugly!

I don't think I would eliminate the performace group. There are alot of discussions that happen there that would turn ugly in a forum where you had folks who modify and folks who return to factory. Maybe rename it "Modified" to match the new BCA group? There is a real need for the seperation there, just look through some of the posts in the general area where when anyone ever suggests a change from stock, or the opinion of such...the beatings can be brutal!

[Guest my3buicks]

Brian, I frequent the BuickV8 forum daily and enjoy it - but I do get tired of wading through the multitude of non-Buick related posts and for that matter completely non-automotive posts- As far as the BCA site, this forum is what people/US/We make of it - if the forum is not catering to a particular groups/niche's needs, then it's their fault - make a post, that's all it takes to cater to the their needs- an open forum is just that, open to ALL. Keep it simple. While on rare occasion there are some "spats" on this forum I find them to be much more numerous on the V8 site. We have a great group of people here we just need to let more people know about us. I think a little more exposure in the Bugle about the site would help also.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Well, let's try this again. I had just completed a long reply to your post, went "Back" to look at another post and when I "Forwarded" again, you guessed it, the whole damn thing was gone. So...here is a shortened version, as I am tired and in need of rest.

What makes this such a great site to me, other than the great people that use it, is the simplicity of the format. I think that branching out too much with the number of members we have would tend to segregate and folks would end up falling into certain little niches. Personally I think there is a value in the "Community" type board that we have. As I have noted in some recent posts, I have here lately taken a liking to the mid to late teens Buicks. How did this happen. Because there were some posts relative to them in the General Discussion Forum. Had this discussion been in a pre 30's forum I most likely would not have even read the post. I don't read the Reatta Forum, but when someone posts someting Reatta related I usually read it and that little Sports Car part of my brain starts thinking "Boy those are some neat little sports cars, I'd kinda like to own one when I win the lottery". Now I'm not saying growth is bad.Growth is good. But slow growth such as that of the mighty oak is stronger than that of the weedy Sweetgum. So before we go branching out into a lot of different year forum why not strengthen what we have now by dividing into some more general areas that will help folks know where to post. I'd like to suggest the following menu:

Buick Events and Club News: Actually any old car event Buick folks might be interested and Chapter/Club news, formations etc.

My Buick(s): Photos and braggins about your prized Buick

General Forum: For all the good old stuff from "Same 54 Skylark-Two Different Ebay Auctions to Did Ed McMahon Sell 56 Buicks.

Buick Tech and Restoration: Discussion and questions about restoration and technical issues with any year Buick.

Performance and Modified: They get to be grandfathered in...

Reatta: Grandfather them in too.

Buy and Sell:

Now in the future, we can start branching out into certain years ie Buick Brass, The Straight Eight Years, Nailhead Years, and the New Jobs.Brian, I realize this doesn't accomplish what you were trying to address right now but I think it will better organize and make the current Furum more Buick user friendly. As to your suggestion that we are not serving the early Buick crowd, I don't understand. They can post just as freely and often as the guy with the 96 Roadmaster Station Wagon.

What ever we go with though, you can count on me to check in daily. Morning lunch and night. I also check in on the V8 Buick, Buick Tech and Buick Street sites. But with them it's maybe once a week.

Hopefully we will get a lots more feed back from Forum members and you can affect some changes that will satisfy the majority of the group.

Now aren't you'all glad you didn't have to read the "long" post?

[Smartin]

Just a quick blurb regarding the v8buick site:

There are close to 7000 members "signed up" on there (probably closer to half of that for the people who actually use it) but if you wee to lump all of the threads into 3 or 4 forums every day, you'd end up with more of a mess than you could wade through in all the other specific forums together.

Success of the v8buick site comes from extreme simplicity to use (attachments that are viewable without having to click on a link to see it)..

Also, I hate to say this, but age comes into factor when talking about this vs the v8 site. As Brian mentioned, v8buick is more of a performance-oriented site, and therefore the audience and participants tend to be on the more "youthful" side of the group. Guys looking to juice up their "brand new" 70 Skylark Custom they just inherited from their grandmother-type folks. So they find v8buick and get the answers they want almost INSTANTLY from the many seasoned veterans who surf the board on a daily. That's when they get HOOKED and never turn back.

The key to success is having a thick group of people who are willing to go an extra step and answer every question that they can...which we DO have here. But the secret is appealing to a broader audience. Sorry to say, but the audience we have here at the BCA forums is limited compared to the variety we get over at v8buick.

Not to mention the fact that other folks from different brands frequent the v8 board a bunch. There is a completely separate forum for them called THose Other Guys - http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay.php?f=36

Virtually every base is covered on v8buick, with the exception of pre-war Buicks (going back to Brians original idea).

Another thing which comes to mind is the free-flowing atmosphere over there. Lots of guys/gals post some WAY off topics that have nothing to do about cars, which I think is GREAT. It promotes lots of conversation and comradery (sp?) between the members. Threads relating to issues such as family problems, the World Series (which I'm about to puke over), their pets, new houses, etc....

I just don't see any of that over here. The last big off-topic thread I remember here was the SUV-Terrorism thread I started almost 2 years ago, which exploded into oblivion with some pretty intense debate.

I've gone and met bunches of people from v8buick who go to the national events, and they're all just like I remember them on the boards. I've met a few people from this board and it's the same story here also - Brian Laurance, Keith Bleakney, Crin Dima, amongst others.

I think I'm beginning to ramble here, so I'll quit while I'm falling behind

I could talk all night about the hows/whys regarding v8buick and how it started.

There are bunches of other boards that have popped up in recent months like www.buickland.com and BuickStreet's new forum. They just don't draw the traffic that this and v8buick draw though.

Once people find a home, they stick there. It just so happens that v8buick was found by a bunch of people at once, (the breakdown on the GSCA board) and they became a VERY solid foundation of knowledge for other to follow and teach. Now the board has grown into amazing numbers and uses over 100GB of bandwidth per month.

[NTX5467]

I'll concur that possibly there might be some "expansions" of this site in some cases, but I also concur and have observed that too many "segments" in a board can do more harm than good or be "harder" to use.

Over the past few years, I've been into many other boards (Buick and non-Buick). Some seem to have "pages" of sections to cater to every whim of any enthusiast of that particular marque, which looks good on the surface. One would perceive that "anything" they desired to find might be in those forum's posts. Unfortunately, I've seen that such is not always the case. Some websites/forums have great amounts of statistical information on the vehicles they pertain to. Others are more conversationally oriented. Many have links to other websites with additional information.

It used to be that "webrings" were one way to find lots of information on particular vehicles. But the way the proliferating forums/boards have evolved, the webrings seem to be of lesser importance in more recent times. Webrings can find you more people of specific interests (that have put up websites on their cars and interests), but the forums will bring you "everybody" at one time or another.

My observations have usually been that certain types of people will tend to gravitate toward each other and the same seems to be true of these forums/boards. That's what makes the RegalGS site "work" just as some of the other GM vehicle sites/forums--some degree of specialization within a given "dimension" or niche. For example, if you desire to learn how the knock retard system works on the newer 3800s, that's in one of the websites/forums devoted to the current production Regals/Grand Prixs. Yet, looking for those things for me, and possibly others, is not a daily thing.

And then we have this forum on the BCA website. The "General Forum" is just that--someplace that Buick enthusiasts can come together in ONE place to share information, relate historic information, and learn about the many things that have made Buicks great automobiles over the decades they have been produced. Not specific to any one area, but Buicks in general. A somewhat "non-intimidating" forum, when compared to others where a certain amount of knowledge is presumed for someone to even post in there. As was mentioned, this forum is what the participants make of it--which has been a very good forum and can continue to be in the future.

One of the main reasons that I normally monitor these forums is the ease of use of the AACA forums compared to some of the others out there. Sometimes, having "too many posting options" can be more detrimental than beneficial to the site as a whole. Plus, one login gets you into the other AACA hosted forums/boards too.

When I go into one of the "large menu" websites/forums, I usually come away underwhelmed. Some have good data or information, but with so many posting options, you have to check everything to see what's actually there. Unlike these AACA forums where you have more to look at without clicking on a multitude of posting areas.

What might be a possbility could be some sort of archiving operation to sort the threads by subject and then have them archived in an appropriate section of the BCA website? Plus possibly an expanded "Links" section to known quality Buick-related websites/forums. Using the "networking" orientation might be a good orientation as we are all part of the larger family of Buick Enthusiasts.

Yet getting reciprocal links to other websites/forums can be a little more difficult to do that some might perceive. Just like getting some of the members of other Buick-related enthusiast organizations to join the BCA.

It can be a somewhat difficult "balancing" act to "be all things to all people" yet still offer the necessary specialization that can be beneficial to the enterprise. We certainly appreciate the great job that Roberta, the BCA operatives, and the AACA hosts do to give us this great tool to enhance our automotive interests! The "proof" is in the activity levels of this forum compared to others.

Thanks,

NTX5467

[chub chub]

i usually would never break topic... but since you brought up the world series... i have to say, thank you boston for ending the curse! THANK YOU.

[Buicks Rule]

I too like the simplicity of the Buick General forum. By keeping almost all Buick stuff in one place, it gives all of us the opportunity to learn about other eras of Buicks. Like many, if a topic looks interesting, I'll read about it even if it's an era that I don't own. I usually end up learning something too. But, while I might open a thread on this forum about say a 26 Buick I probably wouldn't go into a special area for pre-straight 8 Buicks very often to see what's up.

Wouldn't it be nice if that person looking for service info on their 96 Roadmaster read one of the posts about an earlier era Buick that looked cool, got involved and bought one?

I've gone on the V8 Buick forum occasionally but find the multiple forum listings a huge pain and often end up checking 5 or six different areas because the info I'm seeking "could" fit in more than one place.

When in doubt use the KISS rule. Keep in simple stupid. By keeping everything in one place, we all have the opportunity to be intrigued by a thread title and learn something new. If we have to go searching through 5 or 6 different areas, many of us will just check the era we're currently interested in. I think we would all lose.

[Smartin]

The "Search" function comes into use pretty often over at v8 if you're trying to find specific info.

Otherwise, just post a thread asking a question and it'll be answered by at least 3 people by the end of the day

[Centurion]

Thanks, folks, for all your honest comments, and I find myself in agreement with the good points all of you have made.

The two common themes I'm hearing are:

1) Keep it simple

2) We enjoy the "community" we have here

Your points make sense to me, and I'm feeling a little silly for having even brought up the whole thing. I got a bit carried away, and I hope I haven't frustrated you all.

In a nutshell, my concern was that I saw at least three pre-WWII Buick questions from different individuals within the last week. There were no responses to any of their technical questions, and I learned from the AACA forum that enthusiasts of the early Buicks were not checking our forum because they didn't want to have to look through all the topics relating to the newer cars.

If we did anything, then I would limit it to adding one more forum for pre-V8 Buick technical questions. If there's no compelling sense that we need to do anything, then I suggest we leave well enough alone.

This forum is a great place, and I look forward to continuing along as we have.

[Gene Brink]

Read this last night and have mulled it over since then and it seems to me that there might be a number of factors here. 1) More participation by those interested in "older" old cars and whether or not that is desirable or not; 2) Whether or not BCA Forums needs additional categories to further useage; 3) Do other forums adequately cover everyone's needs as they presently are. My thoughts are:

1- I'd love to see additional participation. While I very much enjoy looking at older Buicks (define older as say pre 1937) my primary interest is not in them probably because of very limited experience (I'm only 57) with them as well as wanting cars that can be driven in today's traffic with few compromises. If a posting is made on an old Buick I generally read it.

2- I'm straddling the fence on this one. I love how inclusive the general category is right now and feel as though all of us probably read postings because they are there and would not read them if they were in a segregated category. The flip side to this would be that someone whose primary interest is in another category of car would be more inclined to use a dedicated segment forum listing. If one should be set up I would certainly explore to see what types of postings were made and if I found interesting add to my daily (almost) reading list. (Note: As Keith, Lamar and others have pointed out there are other forums that also cover a wide range of areas [buickV8 and Buick Street among others] that have active participation presently.)

3- I suppose other forums available would cover anyone's old car addiction but that is not to say "one-stop-shopping" at the BCA forum would not be nice.

One other thing also occurs to me. My gut instinct tells me that a factor in how active a particular interest group is in using this forum probably relates to how computer literate that group is. I've read a number of articles talking about interest in old cars and the type (era) of cars that are generally at shows and the consensus is that: 1) old car nuts tend to love and own the cars they drove in their teens and twenties; 2) as the old car population ages interest in newer cars grows in direct reflection of the aging pattern in the general population hence it is to be expected that newer (50's & upward [especially the 60's]) has grown and will continue to do so as we babyboomers age (I suppose the next surge will be for 70's & 80's cars which is hard to figure for me). I'll bet the same correlation can be made for computer useage today based upon prior useage. Some older folks will never use a computer so can not participate.

Sorry guys/gals. I did not mean to be so lengthy... Brian, thanks for raising an interesting subject.

[Guest brh]

Brian,

I also frequent our little community, new thoughts and perspectives are a healthy way to look at things. At times I have made suggestions that didn't go over too well, but it just a thought, some input. Thats why we are here. Thanks for your efforts.

[The Old Guy]

One thing that has not been mentioned is that older cars are owned by older people, and many of them do NOT LIKE computers. They refuse to learn ,and so are not aware of all the info available.

PS I am 71, I talk to many of the ones we are refering to

[Patrick W. Brooks]

Hello All: I have read the posts with much interest. This is because in the past several years I have made a number of posts concerning parts for sale from the 1920's and had very little response. I have had maybe two responses from the Buick website and none from the AACA site. Also, I have advertised in the Bugle on several occasions and had either no response or only one or two. It is very hard to get any discussion going on the older cars for reasons already stated. I center my interest in the 1936 to 1953 straight eights and they are not as "hot an item" as they were ten years ago. I am sure there are some BCA members who are computer literate and interested in the older cars. My oldest car has been a 1904 Olds and I have had four cars from the 1920's. Still when I take parts to the National to vend from the 20's there are few lookers and fewer buyers. Many of the venders do not bring the older parts because noone is buying. To revamp the site and our agenda to accomodate people who may not be on line with us is questionable. Sure, some will consider themselves better served, but how many and will the effort be successful. Why don't they write some articles for the Bugle about cars from this era? In the past two weeks I have made several posts on the BCA web about 20's parts for sale with not a single response. Patrick W. Brooks

[Centurion]

Pat, I appreciate your interest and response here.

After weighing everyone's input, I think you're correct. As some have pointed out, those owning the older cars have the same access to the forum that all of us do. If those individuals are frustrated by the lack of interest in their topics, then they can make the effort to recruit others having a similar interest. For now, let's leave it alone rather than risk messing up the good thing we currently have here.

[Buicks Rule]

Brian,

It was good that you raised the question. It made all of us think about what we would like to see.

Take care,

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Whoa here now, Brian. Let us not put this Buick in the garage yet. I was so glad to see this issue brought up and all the response you got.It appears we have reached a consensus on the particular issue of adding additional forums of different year and era Buicks. Possibly that will change some day as we grow.I would like to reiterate that as I understand it, this is the "official" Buick Club of America website/forum. And before I forget I would like to commend Patrick Brooks, our BCA president ( and a damn good one at that) for the "Presidents Message" in the October Bugle dedicated to promoting this Forum as just that.

I have long wanted to suggest that the members consider breaking the existing forums out into a couple more that would help people know where to post. Here are my suggestions:

Buick Events and Club News: This forum could serve the BCA by allowing the Association or it's chapters and even other organizations to list events such as regional meets,all Buick shows, swap meets and such. The messages could be sticky notes until the event passes. Granted it would probably mirror a lot of the same info as is in the Bugle's "Coming Events" but it should be able to include more and possibly reach a larger or different audience.

My Buick(s): Need I say much about this. Who doesn't want to show off their Buick(s).A sticky could be used to describe how to post pictures. The members could give a description either brief or long of their prized Buick.

General Forum: Just that... all the good stuff as is currently covered there

Buick Tech and Restoration: Some folks don't want to wade through the GF BS and simply want to cut to the chase and get answers relative to restoration or technical and mechanical. When I first started on this forum, I assumed these type of discussions were meant for the "Performance" forum. NOT so, as I slowly learned.

Performance and Modified: "Performance gets to be "grandfathered in" as there are a lot of great posts in the history of this forum. Eh Bquick and Roberta!!!

Reatta: I'm surprised these folks haven't flown from the nest. They have a great forum going. We need to keep them by all means!!

Buy, Sell and Wanted: I've added "Wanted" here as I am always looking for that 54 Roadmaster Convertible that if I buy, my next Wanted post will be for a place to stay. (edit) actually, I suppose "Buy" and "Wanted" are the same thing...so, never mind...it's fine just the way it is.

I'd like to continue this thread by asking the members to consider this menu and offer their thoughts on adopting these changes.

(edit2) one more Topic that I think would be a lot of fun, educational and keep things lively would be Buick Trivia. Different members could take turns posting trivia questions and the first to answer would earn a point or something. Just a thought (that came to me at about 3:30 am after I threw the cat out the door.)

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Patrick - I'm not organized enough to have my breakdown by years of BCA cars that was in the Bugle a couple months ago handy, but I would suspect that the vending of the 20s and earlier stuff may have something to do with the number of these cars around and the number being actively restored. It is still quite common to find cars from the 50s and 60s in a barn somewhere and start restoration, but I suspect it happens a lot less with cars that are 80 years old. Many of those barns would have fallen down around them.

As to the forums changing, my opinion wavers. Like many others have stated, I likely wouldn't follow as many of the threads if they were in segregated forums. I'd be all for a restoration / technical forum. Out of my collection, I have one driver and 4 patiently awaiting restoration. As time moved on, and I get more cars on the road, I might be inclined to use the performance section more to try to tweak things a bit.

Just my 2 cents Cdn (so about 1.6 cents US).

[Guest my3buicks]

If the Forum "topic Titles" would be expanded - I do think Lamar's suggestions are very good !!!

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Roberta,

I have just realized (actually at about 3 am when the stupid cat woke me in the middle of good dream) I may be a little out of bounds in making the suggestions to the extent I did without at least running them by you. After all this is your baby. I apologize and meant no dis-respect.

[Gene Brink]

I could vote in favor of changes like Lamar proposes. A bit of expansion but not so much to become daunting. (Lamar, If you are at all like me it is a good thing the cat woke you otherwise you would have forgotten everything you proposed when you sat down to add to this chain. )

[Centurion]

Mr. Earl, your ideas should certainly be discussed, and I apologize for being so hasty to "put the Buick back in the garage". In fact, I hope you realize that your involvement has been one of the really positive aspects of this forum ever since you arrived here!

I can't speak for Roberta, but feel confident that she would be comfortable with an honest discussion of the forum formats. I, too, appreciate her efforts here, and realize that she will ultimately be involved in any final decisions and changes.

Here are my thoughts on each of your suggestions, Lamar:

<span style="font-weight: bold">Buick Events and Club News</span> : Currently, the BCA Home Page has a link to a calendar of upcoming events. Here's the calendar as it currently stands:

http://www.buickclub.org/Calendar/calendar.html

Many people access this forum through the AACA, however, rather than through the BCA Home Page. It is likely, therefore, that many of the regular forum users miss the calendar link.

If the BCA Home Page had a link to a Buick Events and Club News Forum, the forum could replace the current calendar. One benefit of having the calendar as part of the forum is that it would allow for questions and responses regarding upcoming events, as well as reports on recently-completed events. Examples of reports on recent events would be Smartin's recent photo report on the Gateway Chapter's show at a local dealership, or my recent photo report on the Puget Sound B-O-P tour.

<span style="font-weight: bold">My Buicks</span> : Once again, the BCA Home Page already has a provision for this, and there is a link to Members' Buicks. Here's the link:

http://www.buickclub.org/MemberGallery/index.html

This current members' gallery works well for any and all BCA members to post photos of their vehicles, and it makes sense to me to keep this in place. As I recall, in order to get photos into this gallery, they need to be e-mailed to Roberta, who then posts them to the gallery. Unfortunately, many of the photos and much of the information is now outdated. Last time I looked, for example, two Buicks that "MyThreeBuicks" previously owned are still displayed, and I would like to update the photos of my cars with better ones. I'm certain that Roberta would be happy to make whatever changes anyone suggested, but the point is that there are several steps to the process.

I do like Lamar's idea about having a forum to post photos of our Buicks. As noted in some of the earlier posts on this topic, there is a sense of "community" among the regulars on this forum, and this would provide a great mechanism for us to provide current photos, descriptions, comments, compliments, etc. about our current Buicks and upcoming acquisitions. The nice thing about having this on the forum is that each of us would have the ability to change, add, or delete our photos, and it would be a useful tool for introducing forum newbies to ourselves and our Buicks.

<span style="font-weight: bold">General Forum</span> : This is my favorite forum, and, of course, it needs to stay. However, we should recognize that placing Buick events and reports as well as photos of our cars in separate forums will reduce the volume of posts on the General Forum.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Buick Tech and Restoration</span> : Once again, I like this idea, and this might address some of the specific concerns I had regarding forum visitors who own the pre-war or pre-V8 Buicks. If there is a simple place for people to check on current technical questions/topics, it might be easier to get answers for some questions. With this forum, I would recommend that posters be instructed to always identify the year and model of Buick that the question pertains to. This should appear in the title of their post.

Should we specify that this forum is for collector Buicks at least X years of age, or should this be left completely open? Do we want to be responding to questions about the fuel gauge in someone's 2001 Park Avenue? Or, should we simply leave it open, allowing any Buick-related tech questions? If no one chooses to answer questions that seem out-of-bounds, then so be it.

Again, the sole caveat I have here is that creating a separate forum for this purpose will diminish activity on the General Forum. Will adding the three new forums that Mr. Earl has proprosed dilute some of the interest?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Performance and Modified</span> : I agree that there has been some confusion about the proper use of this forum. The focus generally appears to be on performance modifications rather than performance questions or technical questions on completely stock Buicks. Changing the name to include "Modified" makes sense to me, and will hopefully clarify the intent of that forum.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Reatta Forum</span> : Our shining star, this forum works great!

<span style="font-weight: bold">Buy, Sell and Wanted</span> : Once again, this forum works well, and I like the idea of adding the "wanted" classification to the title.

Mr. Earl, I think you've proposed some great ideas that could work well for us. One approach would be to try these changes, then evaluate periodically how well they're working. If Roberta is willing, it seems like it should be possible to tweak things along the way. And, we may find that a few simple changes will draw additional folks onto these forums, and I think we would all enjoy seeing that happen.

Any other thoughts? It would be nice to develop some consensus before approaching Roberta and Pat Brooks about any changes here.

[Guest Rojo22]

I came to the Buick Forum just a little while ago, after buying a 1950 restoration project. I have enjoyed the discussions here, and have expanded my Buick knowledge with the help of MrEarl and his delightful companions. I have enjoyed seeing the cohesiveness of the group here. I have Packards and the Packard forum is a bit "divided" into the pre war and post war crowds. They bicker back and forth, and distracts from the real joy of seeing cars on the road no matter from what year or era. I would like to see the forum remain as a cohesive group. My interest has been focused on the 1950's info, but that is self serving for now. I do enjoy reading the posts about earlier Buicks, and even the later Buicks. I would tend to stay in one date range or the other if we were to divide the website up, and I think that is the sentiment I have heard from others. MrEarl does bring up some interesting flavors of the website as well.

[vkohanski]

This is my first time to post over here (just registered 5 minutes ago). I've been a member of the V8Buick board for a couple of years. This is an interesting thread. I don't have much time to scour the internet, but was looking for something particular and it hit this site. That said, looking over it very quickly, I can see that this will be extremely useful for finding information a bit more relevant to me. Like Smartin, I'm a Centurion fan. I drive a Crystal Blue '72 convertible. There's some extremely valuable information on the V8 board, but I do admit that most of it is geared more toward performance. The important thing is to all help each other keep all of our fabulous automobiles on the road. I think I'll much enjoy looking through the information here. Thanks.

[Centurion]

vkohanski, welcome to the BCA Forum!

There are a couple of recent Centurion topics that you might enjoy from the forum:

http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=247810&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=248240&page=3&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

We look forward to your continued participation here.

[Smartin]

Good to see you found the BCA site, Vic!!

[Guest imported_65gs76limited]

i think it was adam that brought up the age factor and i have to agree with him. just look at your local bca club members. here in the northeast ohio chapter, all the older members have the 30's thru 50's models and no interest in the inter-net.the younger members like myself, 60's thru 90's model and i'am on here everyday. as far as younger i mean like 47. as far as the v8 board goes i think it's great, you have a varity to look at. if your not interested in a certain topic, don't click on it. it's not hard and not confuseing. i'am new to the inter-net myself and if i can do it, anyone can.

[Guest imported_65gs76limited]

i forgot to mention that one thing i don't like about the buy/sell board is the fact that you don't have to list a asking price.i've seen it time after time, someone has something for sale and their are taking offers. make them put a asking price or put it on ebay. just my opinion but when i see that i lose all intrest in the item.

[Judd]

If you post to the V8 Buick site and some one replies to your post you get an e-mail informing you of the reply. Maybe this would work better here than adding forums? Personally I have no problems any sites I follow except the yahoo sites that don't archive the attachments and are filled with add pop ups.

[Terry29-26]

Brian:

Keep it simple. Check my post in AACA General Forum. Too many places to post replies and not enough corralation(sp)

Terry29-26

[lrg50]

Very interesting ideas in this thread. For me this forum works fine. The only changes I would like to see are a link for STRAIT 8s and a mandatory asking price on items for sale.

[Guest]

For whatever it is worth, I believe that all of the long time, loyal Buick folks who have posted their opinions here have posted because they are regulars to this Buick forum. What you are not hearing are the thoughts of those of us who have long since stopped coming in here because they feel overwhelmed by the preponderence of more modern Buicks, and have lost interest in trying to find something on "OLD" Buicks. I only came back after an absence of at least 18 months because of Brian's post on the AACA General Forum.

I am not a BCA member, but once was. I dropped out for the very same reason that I do not read the Buick forum. Too little apparent interest in older Buicks. I once attended a BCA Meet in Maryland with my '24 Touring, and outside of a '38, I was the only pre war car there.

This is my two cents worth. I imagine I speak for only a small minority of the participants on this forum.

hvs

[Centurion]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful responses. Terry, Irg50, and Howard, it's great to receive some perspective from owners of the earlier Buicks, and I appreciate your help.

The challenge is to take all of this excellent input and put forth a plan that we can be excited about. My interest is to maintain the appeal of the forum as it presently exists, while also making changes that would attract additional users. I'll be continuing to give thought to this over the weekend. Any other specific ideas?

[Guest my3buicks]

I would like to get some input from Roberta, her thoughts - she gets around

I mean she gets around to the different Buick boards, plus takes care of this one. So her input would be greatly sought after.

[Guest]

Brian,

I think a basic experimental change would be to create a divided technical section, up to 1953 and 1954 and later. That way you could, on a very limited basis, determine if such divisions are worthwhile. If the response is poor you could just merge the two back together again.

Another, but separate, thought might be to establish a trial Pre WW II Buick section to include general, technical and buy/sell all under one heading. That way the limited number of people who would go in there could find everything with one click. If it turns out that doesn't seem to serve a real need or desire on the part of the forum participants, it could be merged back into the main section.

I know "If it ain't broke don't fix it", but are we sure it ain't just a little broke? There may be room for some improvement.

hvs

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Hey Ye Ol'Centurion et al,

I am seeing a lot of good response and feedback. Thanks Brian for your kind remark and appreciation of my involvement here. I would love to see this forum and it's "community" grow and I think seeking input and making a few positive changes based on that input will help accopmplish that. I think we should keep our sights at keeping it simple and user friendly, but at the same time having topics that will draw people and make them want to communicate and help others. The MEMBERS are the only thing that can go beyond the topic names and whatever the menu ends up being.I don't mean to sound crass (sp) here but if the pre-30 or straight eights or mid-fifties or muscle car era folks feel they aren't seeing enough of their era on this forum then let THEM step up to the plate, enter the discussions with questions, issues, information and cars wanted or for sale and make themselves a part of the community. (I think the Trivia Topic forum might could help challenge folks, be fun and help do that also.)

I think we should go ahead and take this opportunity while it is in front of everyone to take our time and make some changes. To ensure we give everyone a chance to voice their veiws and make suggestions why don't we give this thread a few more days, say next Friday Nov 5th, then I'd suggest several of us get together and try and summarize these and establish a new menu and possibly some new guidelines for the BCA Forum. Hopefully Roberta will have joined us by then as well as maybe more BCA officers and other "stockholders" of this great Forum.

[Centurion]

Mr. Earl, thanks for your idea to set a deadline. We need to figure out a way to bring this to some positive conclusion, so I like your idea of continuing to solicit input until the end of the day Friday, November 5. We'll figure out some way for those interested to get their heads together and hammer out a new "straw man". The good thing is that we probably don't have to nail it perfectly the first time around. If we need to tweak it and Roberta is willing, we can make incremental changes along the way.

I agree -- we've heard some great ideas here!

[Guest 53and61]

I agree with Brian's suggestions and with many of the other comments in this thread. However, I haven't seen mention of a problem that for me would discourage jumping among subforums. For some reason, and maybe this problem is a function of my own computers and ISPs, moving around in the AACA forums is very slow. Even waiting for a thread to open for viewing can take a long time, whether I'm on a very fast connection (at work) or a slow one (home). For me, further subdividing the forums would make my staying in touch with areas outside my main interests less likely because of the delay in changing forums within AACA. In contrast, other forums such as BuickV8 seem to be much faster. As I say, this could be a foible unique to my setups and not generally applicable, but if others experience the same delays, the effect of more subforums might be to limit discussion among those of us with different intersts.

[Guest]

Interesting --- I am on a dial up connection and for years have moved around in all sections of the entire AACA forum rather quickly. Even a long item may take less than 5-10 seconds to load. That is fast enough for me, but then since I am retired I have a few extra seconds to spare.

hvs