Dumbfounded

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

I own a home with a 2 car garage on an alley behind my house ,I keep my 77 Buick & my Dart there. I pull my pickup across the back of the garage , park my Cavalier & my wifes van in the street in front of my house, so Im pretty much at my limit here without parking cars in front of the neighbors houses.And that wouldnt be cool , I have good neighbors. For about 8 years now I have also been renting a 2 car garage not far from my home , I keep my boat & my 300 Hurst in that garage . It is also on an alley > this garage is on the rear of an apartment building . I went over there tonite to fool with the Hurst a little and as usual some inconsiderate fool from the apartment building had my garage blocked. Leaving me no place to put my truck except in front of the building, So I cut thru the yard & go down to my garage . About 1/2 an hour later a Pittsburgh police officer shows up at the garage demanding to know what Im doing there. I tell him , he checks my ID & tells me that he had a complaint about somebody trespassing on the apartment grounds .... ME!!!!. So I mention to him about my garage being blocked & having no place to park or if I wanted to get my car out (Not happening anytime soon , but not the point)I would be unable to do it . He tells me that regardless of the fact that it is a garage , regardless of the fact that It is plainly posted NO BLOCKING GARAGE, that since the vehicle that is blocking my garage is registered to that adress, it has the right to park there regardless of whether hes renting the garage or not . Then he tells me that since I dont live there Im trespassing & if I dont leave the premises I WILL BE ARRESTED . WTF I pay the rent on that garage & have no rights at all? . Just to clarify it , it was not late , I was not making noise (unless you consider scribbling notes with a pencil disturbing the peace)and was not disrespectful to the Officer . So now the amazing part is that even if I want to get another garage (and this one is really nice & cheap too ) I cant even move my stuff out unless this tool that continually blocks my garage decides to go out . Then if he feels like parking in front of MY garage when he gets back I have to move because IM in HIS parking place <BR> <BR>Dan <P>------------------

[rocketraider]

In this city blocking a driveway or street front garage entrance, even if it's yours, is grounds for a parking ticket with attached $100 fine. If you have a written lease, that is considered to be legal use of the property and gives you certain rights to use of it. I think the cop was blowing smoke up your ass. Check with city attorney's office and file a complaint against the cop if what he told you doesn't jive with the CA's office. Believe me when I tell you a city cop doesn't always know the laws he's sworn to enforce.<p>[ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: rocketraider ]

[our51super]

I use to live in New York City, Queens (Astoria - for those who know the place) and I rented a garage and an outside parking spot in this guys yard (he had a big yard). One day I had a note on my windshield that said "Don't park here anymore" - even though I was paying rent to put my car there (this was the outdoor spot). I believe it was placed there by someone that rented a garage near where that spot was and he/she was having trouble pulling out, regardless of what I considered to be ample room. A week later I found a large dent in my car's front fender; probably from the same person that put the note there. I never did find who did it, but man did that burn me. I have been a lot happier since I moved to the middle of the country. I find people here to have a lot more heart and be a lot less selfish when it comes to issues such as these. I guess that's why they call it the Heartland. Leave PA and move to Illinois - park anywhere! I think the only "Do not block" sign that I have seen since I moved out here, 12 years ago, are the OSHA-mandated ones on electrical panels.<P>Cheers!

[Ron Green]

If I were you I would have a nice talk with the police chief and explain your situation. It sounds like you had a cop that was "drunk with power" as I like to say.<P>I once had a cop give me a parking ticket of which I was in the wrong however he kept comming back every ten minutes until I had a total of 5 tickets. I went to the station to plead my case only to be told that the officer could have written the whole book out on me if he wanted to. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose and sometimes you wish you never played the game.

[Dave@Moon]

Dan,<P>If your neighborhood isn't one that respects the Pittsburgh traditional "lawn chair" method of reserving spaces , I'd reccommend blocking your own garage. Find a way to have a car you can legally park in front of the garage, either your's or someone who lives nearby who doesn't drive much and can give you a key. <P>Also, if you have a written lease or sub-lease on that garage, there's isn't a kangaroo court in the U.S. who'd put up with a tresspassing complaint. Keep a copy of it (not the original) in the garage. Chances are you're going to see this officer again.<P>Also, knowing the Pgh. Police like I do, I'd guess that the speed of this response to a tresspass complaint indicates that the cop knew the complaintant (or may have been the complaintant). Or maybe there's a crystal meth lab next door! <P>Also, just so you know, when I was a PA-DER inspector we were trained in the ins and outs of tresspass law in PA. Although local laws may differ, the state law says that you have to be ordered to leave by the owner of the property (or someone excercising his/her power of attorney), to actually be guilty of tresspass. <P>The only exception is properties which are <I>legally</I> "posted" for no tresspassing. Legally enforceable "No Tresspassing" signs must include the citation for tresspass, and be signed or at least identify the owner. There are also elaborate spacing requirements. This is why during hunting season you see properties cluttered with white tresspassing signs on seemingly every tree at the perimeter.<P>Of course, as you know, I'm <I>not</I> an attorney. Do not mistake the above for formal legal advice! <P>Good luck!

[gbiggers]

Here in TN we would politely ask the guy who parked his car in front of your garage to give you access to the garage or to provide his phone or address so that he may be contacted when you need access...All this may require taking a day off of work to accomplish. This is an attempt to be civil and human.... If the guy still doesn’t understand his position and what he has at risk, he should be politely and privately informed of the next step...I wont go into the details, here, but well just say..."Let the games begin". I don't understand why, much to their own demise some folks insist on being asses!<P>What comes around goes around<big ole' mule grin>

[Dave@Moon]

First of all, Dan, <I>you don't tell anybody who's car it is!!!!</I> We're being stealthy here! <P>Second, I said legally parked. As I recall, and it's been a l-o-o-n-n-n-g time, the law for abandonded cars in Pittsburgh was at least 30 days without moving. So you turn the $#@@%$ thing around once a week, or replace it for a day with Aunt Mildred's piece of....rust. Just be sure it's licensed and inspected, putting the onus on anyone to challenge the vehicle.<P>Using your truck is a good move. There may be less legal-savvy residnets in the area who'll object to the loss of "their parking space", possibly in unsanitary ways. But I'll bet even money the car in front of your garage right now belongs to the cop or someone he knows. <P>Again, not a lawyer, not advice! Ya' dig?<P>Good luck!

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

Dave ,<BR> I asked the cop about parking my pick up truck in front of the garage, since I really dont use it much anymore , unlike Dave Carlssons pickup , mine isnt as reliable as it used to be . His reply was that since it wasnt registered to that building it would be towed as an abandoned car. <P>Dan

[NTX5467]

Dan--you need to clarify with the person you are paying rent to just what the parking situation is and make them aware of any issues, plus tell them about the police visit. Let them see what they can do. Also check the local ordinances and such as the person doing the blocking could well be in violation too (as in parking in a fire lane, for examaple--even if the markings have worn away). If the owner of the blocking vehicle can be found (via DMV record inquiries), then possibly a parking citation can be issued to them.<P>I concur that the officer seemed to be somewhat intimidating in his actions. I suspect he was there only due to a complaint. By the same token, the actions you considered "normal" could well have raised the concerns of area residents (if they did not know you were supposed to have access back there. Keeping a copy of the rental agreement on hand (posted by the fire extinguisher, for example) is a good idea.<P>Perhaps you need to "get legit" and rent some space in a miniwarehouse complex. It sounds like a 20x40 space would work well for you, allowing you room to work and also to ease the parking around the house. Otherwise, a gated facility where you would rent a couple of one-car spaces to keep running vehicles and parts is an option too. Maybe you could move your longer term projects back to the house and use the rented spaces for operable vehicles and the boat. Everything has a cost whether it is cheap rent or parking hassles or more money for a better place. <P>Other side of the issue is that perhaps you might need to thin the fleet a little? These are some short term options. Long term would be to move to a less populated area that would not be too far from work and such--a place with a biiigggg garage area or a place for such and a long driveway for off street parking. Also check for any homeowner's association which might exist in that prospective area and what their "restrictions" are on parking on your premises or any other issues which would not be friendly to a vehicle hobbiest or someone with numerous vehicles (including ones under restoration).<P>This looks like a case where you have to prove your right of access to the property instead of it being presumed. Legal, signed documentation from your landlord would be a start. You've got to consider that the officer's actions could well be viewed by his superiors as "just doing his duty investigating a complaint" (although his demeanor could be an issue). Afterall, he obviously had no knowledge that YOU weren't doing something illegal to start with and you don't know how many times he might have already answered "trespassing violation" calls from that area.<P>Many modern law enforcement people seem to have what I call a "prospecting for business" orientation such that they are always looking for that big drug bust or similar to make themselves look good. It might not be "fair" but that seems the way it is sometimes. It also seems to go against the "innocent until proven guilty" orientation, sometimes even reversing that doctrine, but if you can perceive what their gameplan is, then you can play the game better to defend yourself.<P>Enjoy!<BR>NTX5467

[Guest Teamsterdug]

Dan- Time to move to the country. Sounds like the big city is causing to much aggrivation. Old cars are supposed to be a way to "relax" and take yourself to a more peaceful time! Chill and take a look at the big picture. Do you really want to subject yourself to all of that?

[BuickNut]

Just out of curiosity - did you ever check with the local ordinances to see what YOUR rights were as to the other guy parking in front of your leased garage ? I DO have respect for the law and the guys in the blue suits - but a lot of them do "blow the proverbial smoke" and state alot of laws that really don't exist to get you do go their way on things. I am curious as to what the actual law DOES say......

[Dave@Moon]

Dan, for what it's worth. If you block a garage entrance when parking in Oakland or Squirrel Hill your car's in the impound lot within about 45 minutes! I'd make a few inquirys around the better offices in the City-County Building next time you're down there!

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

Well I ve recieved a lot of good ideas some usable some not. First I would absolutely LOVE to move but I cannot, I am a City of Pittsburgh employee and am therefore required by the city to live within the city limits. And anything within the city limits that has the space available is well out of the price range I can afford . Dont let the appearence of wealth fool you its not there. The pickup truck is very old , the cavalier is very old , the boat is a smaller craft that I paid for long ago.The 300 is a shambles that I may never get running again but I am going to try . The only reason Im here now on this board was the I bought my Buick for an exceptional value , the car is worth thousands more than what I paid for it. The selling price on my Buick was a 3 digit number . So the warehouse space , tho a good idea , is out of my range . As far as discussing it with the landlord I have on several occasions , I dont want to become a pest to the landlord because the garage is also an exceptional value . I do plan on keeping a copy of the lease in the garage as suggested to prevent furhter isues on that end . As far as activity around the building , there would have been no activity around the building at all if I had been able to park in front of my garage. I believe the person responsible for blocking my garage is trying to drive me out of it so that he can store his business tools there . I do plan on meeting with the landlord this week to try to have the lease amended to state the garage & all areas in front of the garage out to the alley . Then at least I will have something to go on .Thanks for all the suggestions & if anybody comes up with another idea let me know <P>Dan

[NTX5467]

It seems that an "agenda" has surfaced with respect to "why" the neighbor's truck is parked there and maybe a reason the police were called so quickly. It could be just plain and simple harassment.<P>Access to that space should be within the realm of the landlord's responsibility--regardless of whether you are the primary leaseholder or the secondary leaseholder. It could probably be taken care of with a little signage that probably isn't there.<P>For example, signs at the entrance of the alley "Resident Parking Only in Appropriate Space", for example, plus "All Violators Will Be Towed At Owner's Expense". Unless some signage is present, no body can really do anything unless there are applicable city codes/ordinances that pertain to such a situation as you have. In this case, "resident" will mean anyone that has a lease to all or part of any dwelling in the building group. It might be private property of sorts, but it's private property with public access.<P>Additionally, if the guy can't park his truck in the alloted space as another resident or himself has acquired more vehicles, then the landlord should investigate and attempt to remedy that issue too. He might be just taking the only remaining available space because someone else has taken his without really considering that he might be causing a problem.<P>In any event, anything you do should be mature, rational, and legally defensible should your or the landlord's actions be questioned.<P>Also, while you're researching things, you might get a copy of the state vehicle laws and check on the statutes partaining to "inoperable vehicles". In some cases, it doesn't matter if the vehicle is in a locked building out of sight, they can still remove it if it is meets the definition of "inoperable" and possibly "public nuisance". Then check the applicable city codes too. Key thing is to make sure the guy with the pickup does not or cannot have any recourse against you for any reason (i.e., having your vehicles removed/impounded under an obscure city/state statute).<P>You might be getting a great deal on that space, but if it's causing you that much headache, is it really worth it? Forget about the issue of giving in to the guy with the pickup and consider your own financial issues and realities (with respect to your fleet). <P>You might have gotten a great deal on that Buick, but if it and another vehicle are the reason for the rented space then it might be best to fix the Buick and sell it and maybe liquidate another vehicle in the process. But those are judgment calls you'll have to make on your own.<P>Just some additional thoughts . . .<BR>NTX5467