station wagon is back...

[Guest]

Dodge has "re-invented" the wagon, I guess the mini-van earl is over.

http://www.dodge.com/magnum/

The Magnum looks pretty nice, with the chopped roof look. I would guess there will be a woody version in the next model year.

What goes around, comes around.

[Guest greg72monte]

Heaven forbid you should call an SUV a station wagon,

but that's what it is anyway. The Dodge Magnum is a step

in the right direction, but oh that grille???

I guess they wanted to get that Ram truck look!

[1937hd45]

I WANT ONE!!!!!!!!!! That is a great looking car, love the top chop look. The Grill is pure Cummingham sports car from the 1950's, yes they were HEMI powered too.

[Guest BillP]

A couple years ago my sister asked my advice on what would be a practical, decent car to haul her two daughters to lessons, get groceries, and so on. Without hesitation, I told her to get a '55 Chevy Nomad.

She still shakes her head with a wry smile over that one.

BTW, she bought a VW Passat wagon.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

The new Malibu Maxx is another step in this direction.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The new Malibu Maxx is another step in this direction. </div></div>

Or you could buy the Taurus wagon for about $2K less. Ford also still makes a subcompact wagon in the Focus line, which has dramaticly improved in reliablility lately.

[Guest imported_klb]

One thing I noticed was how far forward in the roof the lift gate reaches. Should make loading easier I suppose.

[Guest greg72monte]

The end of the road is near for the Taurus wagon.

Maybe I will buy a new Roadmaster wagon.... oh yeah...they

stopped making them so they could make more trucks.

Have you seen what good clean Roadmaster wagons are bringing

lately, if you can find one? It seems now that they are gone,

it is the wagon to have. (of recent models of course).

My wagon of choice would be a hardtop wagon of the late 50's

to early 60's.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

I liked the Roadmaster wagon's Oldsmobile badged kin, the 88 Custom Cruiser, even better (no fake wood, for one thing), & especially now after the demise of the marque, they are sort of underneath the radar & available pretty reasonably.

[Guest]

But Dave, I just recently saw a bumper sticker that read, "Friends don't let friends drive Fords."

hvs

[1937hd45]

This takes the cake! There was a transporter parked just off Main Street an hour ago. It was a "Hobby" transporter that we see at all the big meets, all painted up and looked real nice, thought it would have some nice Thomas Flyer or Packard 443 roadster inside for some new owner. WRONG! Some Yuppie taking delivery of a new Porsche SUV.

[R W Burgess]

Be kind to your neighbors now, Bob. If the man owns a Porche SUV, he certainly must have a nice "Turbo" in the garage somewhere. Get really close to him, and you may be able to take her for a spin, the Turbo, that is! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

[Guest imported_Dwight V.]

Hmmm, Ford Focus wagon for $15,000+ or a nice Falcon wagon for $5000?

Seems like an easy decision to me.

[juddman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm, Ford Focus wagon for $15,000+ or a nice Falcon wagon for $5000?

Seems like an easy decision to me. </div></div>

Truly...wait three years and the Focus will be $5000 with about 36K miles. Had a pair of Falcons in the family years ago and they were wretched things. Mebbe just a bad batch, but there have been very few Fords in the family since.

[Al Smeraldo]

My wagons never left. My 56 Country Squire hasn't been out for awhile but I put about 60,000 miles on it just going on tours and meets. My everyday car is an 89 Colony Park with 127,000 miles on it. It also has the most useful kind of tailgate that GM has rediscovered for their truckwagons although they hinged it the wrong way.

[Guest]

i posted the dodge web page above.

I've never had a wagon, what is the "best" tail gate design?

Hinged or other wise.... The New Dodge has the hinge have way up the roof. Not sure why.

[kuhner]

Chrysler "re-invents". Sheesh. I remember when they "invented" the mini-van. Yea right.

You can get this one (attachment) with a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder. And all wheel drive. And un-fortunately, many trips back to the dealer for repair

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm, Ford Focus wagon for $15,000+ or a nice Falcon wagon for $5000?

Seems like an easy decision to me. </div></div>

OK, lets assume a few things:

$2.00/gal gas for the next 5 years, 15K miles/yr. driving for the next 5 years, all Falcons get the 18 mpg that my '60 got with the 144 cu.in. 6 cyl. that was so weak it was replaced by the 170 in short order, that Focus wagons get 30 mpg (roughly city figures for both cars), Falcons have stopped rusting and remain more or less intact over time like Focus wagons, and that both the Falcon wagons and Focus wagons go 75K miles without repairs or maintenance costs (which scenario do <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> think is the more likely?).

The Falcon wagon just burnt $3,333.33 more gasoline than the Focus. We can talk about grease, spark plugs, points and other ignition parts, carb adjustments, brake shoes, etc. later.

Now the $15K Focus just depreciated about $10K, and the Falcon <span style="font-style: italic">was</span> a $5K car 75K miles ago. Assuming the heroic/unrepaired Falcon is now a $500 hulk (IMHO the most likely outcome), the Focus cost just $2167 more to drive than the Falcon.

Do you think "your" Falcon is going to cost $2000 less to maintain in the next 5 years under that kind of stress?

[6219_Rules]

The Falcon may be less of a car due to many things, modern advances etc.. but I can see the desirability of the car over the Focus. Especially on an antique car forum. Come on...for the common man the Focus is the best choice but to a group of car lovers, a plastic, poorly fitted, blah jelly bean is no substitute for a car that has history. I hated the Focus....smells like a new diaper. Ick. Dave, just remember this group is in the minority and the cars we like to drive get as good mileage as most SUVs. My '77 Eldorado is getting about 16 mpg with the few minor things I have done to it. Clearly the maintenance is higher on an older car, but consider this...my Eldorado is nearly pristine (one or two tiny blemishes), runs beautifully and cost $1950.

I do not pay interest on credit, and my insurance is lower. I own the car outright. I do pay more in up keep as older parts fail, but the oil and grease is minimal. Gas is the highest cost...and I can take that since I drive less than most. Personally, I cannot afford the newer cars. And the cost of buying is serious enough that it would be detrimental to try, even if I COULD qualify.

Let's see....paying a monthly payment, plus interest, on a car that I don't like or at best gives me no real feeling at all, verses owning a car outright, that gives me some pleasure, is fun to work on, and gets better mileage than a modern SUV. Hmmmm.

Obviously this is a highly personal choice. On the whole, I suspect the majority of Americans will buy and do buy modern, efficient cars. The manority prefer something older. I think there is room for both.

[6219_Rules]

I like the new Chrysler products basically. I think the Magnum is a good looking wagon...almost chopped and channeled! And the 300 is really interesting....getting back to a shape that looks like a car...but I still can't get my mind around all the plastic and how, up close, it looks cheap.

Its hard to place but something, maybe the bright work, makes it look cheap.

I suspect it is the plastic and composit panels on the body. Metal just looks more substantial.

But plastics are here, they are cheaper and safer, according to the government so there is no going back.

[Guest]

randy my boy,

you just don't under stand the reason for plastic panels....

simple, the fire dept. will not need the jaws of life, but a candle and X-acto knife to get what every large body parts are left inside the plastic container.

And we have all set a fire a plastic model in our youth, so it will also draw all the neighood kids to watch the melting wreckage....

[Guest imported_Dwight V.]

Dave, you take all the fun out of statements like mine.

Would I actually want to live with a 6 cylinder, no a/c Falcon every day? No, probably not. But I certainly think I'd have more fun with the Falcon, and definately would get a lot more attention!

No, not as a primary car, I agree. But as a second car, it could make good sense. I bought my '65 F-100 instead of a 'new' truck because the cost was far less, fuel mileage about the same, and I could live without all the creature comforts. I gained more fun, better looks, better quality (arguably), easier maintenance, lower insurance, no interest and virtually no depreciation. It hauls 3 yards of mulch just fine.

Not everyone would be happy with that. My comment was tongue-in-cheek, but there are a lot of people in AACA that probably do subscribe to my sentiment.

[Guest Skyking]

Before my wife and I bought a used 2000 Century, she wanted a new Focus wagon. I didn't see any with a $15,000 price tag, they were more like $17,000 & change. Truthfully, I wouldn't buy new because of payments & insurance & taxes. There are some on this forum who thought I was crazy buying the Century, but you know what? It's paid for and it serves us just well! If I want fun, I'll drive my old cars..........

[Azbluewhale]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My wagons never left. My 56 Country Squire hasn't been out for awhile but I put about 60,000 miles on it just going on tours and meets. My everyday car is an 89 Colony Park with 127,000 miles on it. It also has the most useful kind of tailgate that GM has rediscovered for their truckwagons although they hinged it the wrong way. </div></div>

Hi Al!

I'm a Fifties Ford wagon owner too! Do you have a website or any photos of your Squire?

Roy Ireland

Tucson, AZ

http://www.azbluewhale.com

[Guest Moepar]

Ah heck, most of y'all ain't hardcore enough! My newest car is my '76 Olds, use my '71 Chrysler 300 as my daily driver. So far, had minimal upkeep, savings I get in less insurance, a whopping $1.75 in taxes a year, & no interest buys lots of gas (gets about 18 hwy with 440). Have done a brake job, & replaced the water pump is all I've done since owning car (normal maintanence even for new cars & parts are way cheaper), which is a lot less than my one & only 'new' car experience & I've owned the Chrysler for as long as the Ford I bought new. If the new Ford only gave 1/2 as good a service as my oldies, I may have bought another. As it was, between payments, taxes, & CONSTANT repair of the Ford, I couldn't wait to see it go that the road-preferably into the ocean. But that's besides the point-way bad experience there. Another thing about my oldies-usually I can fix the problem on the road easily if it becomes an issue (always was with new car) and when I do, I get to irratate a bunch of guys who think most of us gals are 'car stupid' when it comes to under the hood.

[6219_Rules]

Moepar, we need more gals like you around! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I feel precisely the same way...OK I am an avowed crank...because I use a 1977 Eldorado as my daily driver, and my 1947 Caddy for fun but I am working on making IT my daily! Anyway, your Olds sounds wonderful. I had a 1969 Olds 98 Holiday Coupe as my daily until a drunk teen wrecked it last year. Oldsmobile is one good, solid car. Good luck with it.

[ex98thdrill]

Life without rust.... I wish things were like that in New York. But on the other hand, when you have the rust, and the bad weather, I tend to appreciate the older stuff more because it isn't as common. In New York, If you get 15 years out of a vehicle that is driven daily, it is pretty much a candidate for the junkyard.

[Al Smeraldo]

Answering Tommy's question about the best tailgate design. It is the doorgate that Ford came out with in 1965. It opens like a door or drops down like a tailgate. I use it like a door when putting groceries in or letting passengers into the third seat. If I'm carrying 4x8 sheets I can drop it down or if there are only a few light ones I just drop the window and slide them in. Another thing that seems to have been rediscovered is fold flat 2nd and 3rd row seats.

[Dave@Moon]

Al,

They worked great, except that the upper left hinge was overstressed and eventually would let go of the mount either through rust or simple strain (hopefully this was addressed on similar design newer models). My AMC Ambassador had the same design tailgate, except that it could be opened down like normal or, if you tried to operate it like a door, it would fall off the car!

I prefer the hatchback-type liftgate that is prevelant today, but I wouldn't reject any wagon based only on it's tailgate design.

[Guest]

do you remember those 1970 buicks with the electric gates that the glass when up and the door went down like the "enterprise".

I saw an old dodge with that third row, with the rear axel housing used are an arm rest between the seats.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

Did anyone see the recent announcement by Chrysler that they are going to try to break the stranglehold Ford currently has on the police vehicle market by offering a law enforcement version of the Dodge Magnum?

See:

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/dcx25_20040625.htm

[ex98thdrill]

The only reason Ford has the stranglehold on the police car market is because Chrysler walked away with the Diplomat and Fury and never brought anything back. They threw that business away all on their own.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

The Diplomat/Fury platform was very long in the tooth at the time Chrysler discontinued it, & while the Mopar was okay, it was just only that, & from a fleet maintenance or performance standpoint was not the vehicle that the Chevy Caprice was becoming. In the long run, the Diplomat/Fury would not have retained its share of the police market, & they sure weren't selling otherwise. In any event, the Chrysler's chosen direction at that time was cab forward & front wheel drive, & from the perspective of what could be sold to John Q., that was the right move. GM followed suit by giving up on the Caprice after 1996, leaving the large, rear wheel drive police sedan market all to Ford. Both GM & Chrysler have subsequently touted the front wheel drive Impala & Intrepid for law enforcement duty, but they have never been widely accepted for that application, certainly not by state highway patrols.

[ex98thdrill]

If you've ever talked to anyone who works in anything other than a Ford, there isn't enough room, and the cars don't hold up as well to high mileage, idle time, high speeds, etc. What may seem like a car with plenty of room for four people, by the time you install the security cage, light switch panels, map light, siren box, radio, radar unit, flashlights, shotgun rack, lap top or MDT (Mobile Data Terminal), briefcase (which covers your basic forms, clipboard, and law books), and with some departments that have video equipment, there is not enough room.

After that you still haven't put an officer in the car (or two depending on the shift and department), a prisoner in the back seat, and in the trunk you still haven't put traffic cones, reflective safety vests, wet weather gear, cold weather gear, a fire extinguisher, first aid kit, emergency blanket, road flares, file folders with spare forms and reports, camera, measuring tape, Dept. rules and regs book, etc.

....and you put even more stuff in the car if you are a K9 Handler who has the dog, and all of the stuff that the dog needs.

....By the way, did I tell you that I work at Krispy Kreme??

(There isn't a Krispy Kreme that pays good enough that is close enough to where I live)

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

Interior room was something of an issue with the Diplomat/Fury, too, at least for larger personnel. One of our local municipal departments took the plunge with an Impala recently. Another had a Lumina at one time. A nearby CHP office even experimented with a front wheel drive Volvo just a couple years back. My own agency messed around with a Taurus for patrol about a decade ago. Another I worked for years ago used to operate Aspens, & those <span style="font-style: italic">were</span> cramped, also absolutely no legroom whatsoever for arrestees behind the divider. No one complained about the competing Novas, though (the local city police were using them).

The Intrepid has a pretty good foothold in places like Kansas where you will see them a lot. Big city eastern departments like the Impala. That notwitstanding, I agree that the big bugaboo seems to be perceived reliability over the long term. But then the Crown Vics (or Police Interceptors, if you prefer) aren't worth a darn after 100K of that kind of usage, either.

[ex98thdrill]

In my county we had Diplomats, Caprices, and Crown Vics. The Crown Vics were the most reliable. The Mopars in their time, took corners the best, but the 4-barrels were cold blooded pigs, and the 2-barrels carbs couldn't get out of their own way. The Chevys ran well but had a lot of transmission problems. The Fords didn't corner as well as the Mopars, but we mananged to get 130,000+ miles on the Fords with fewer problems than what were found with Mopars with almost half the miles.

[Al Smeraldo]

Dave, I've never had a problem with that hinge. I've had 3 wagons with that type of tailgate [66 Comet, 70 Rebel & 89 Merc]. I once had a 56 Dodge wagon that the tailgate would fall off when opened though.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

First of all, I'm a "crank", "wacko", "curmudgeon", etc, who long ago made it a pretty firm policy not to own cars or trucks "newer than me"...

Next, I have had quite a bit of experience with Falcons...and none that were less than 20 years old at the time, nor under 100,000 miles...

Yes, the 144 cid six was a dog, especially when mated to that air-cooled 2-speed Ford-O-Matic (horrible!). I believe that this was the only powertrain option for 1960-'61.

They stroked the 144 out to 170 CID in late '61, and by '63, the 144 was history.

Among others, I had two '62 Falcons: a 4dr "Deluxe" sedan with 189,000 miles on it when I bought it from one of my merit badge couselors for $100 in 1984 (he took $50 off the asking price when I told him he could keep the "sheepskin" front seat cover !). This car had the 170 cid (101 hp) with a 3-speed stick.

A year later, Mom and I went in together on a "choice, unrestored" 1962 Falcon 2 dr stripper (89,000 miles), purchased from the 94 year-old original owner...this car, although snazzy looking with its "Corinthian White" paint and red & white vinyl interior ( ), was cursed with the 144 cid gutless wonder and the 2-speed slush-o-matic.

The two cars were like night & day to drive...my tired old sedan had a lot more "zip" than Mom's cream-puff (and I drove both back & forth to college - 200 miles one way).

Around '64 or so, they again increased the six to 200 cid, and began to offer the 260 and 289 cid V-8s in the Falcon.

That said, Dad went on to buy a 1965 Falcon Futura 4dr (from the same merit badge counselor), and drove that back & forth to work (Balto. to Wash. - 45 miles each way) for several years...putting over 100,000 add'l miles on THAT car...

All of these cars were between 20 & 25 years old when we acquired and started running them.

My '62 Deluxe was finally killed at 210,000 miles by an unfortunate meeting with a '77 Buick Regal (when they were still tanks!)...it still drove, but the front frame section was twisted, and the car was too rusty for any frame shops to touch it.

Which brings me to the next Falcon thing: Rust.

Yes, they did rust. So did every other American & foreign unit-body car made then.

Station wagons started out as UTILITY vehicles. They were made to haul stuff. PERIOD.

So, most pre-1970 wagons aren't far from the spartan end of the spectrum. Particularly with lower-priced offerings like the "compact, disposable" cars such as the Falcon, Valiant, Dart, Lark, and their bigger cousins such as the Chevy 110 and Del Ray or Biscayne...plain jane.

With extra weight of a wagon body, particularly if loaded to the gunwales with "Stuff", even the 170 Falcon might've been a bit doggy...

For today's world, I won't argue that the Focus is probably safer and far more technologically advanced; but that simple, straightforward, rugged Falcon will be a lot easier to keep on the road year, after year, after year...(rust not withstanding).

Wonder how all the electronic gimcracks and plastic trim will be holding-up on that Focus when it celebrates its 20th birthday, if it lives that long...?

I have had a '93 Ford Excort GT (HAH!) for the last four years as a "daily driver"...it spends most of its time being parked, in favor of the various cars & trucks in the "25 or older Stable"...it runs okay, and only requires gas & oil; but I'd rather drive a 60 year-old jalopy than a 10 year-old "new" car...

(Like I said at the top, I'm a wacko... )

Most of the present-day "drivin' with the cel-phone" crowd, wouldn't be able to deal with the spartan surroundings of a "real" vintage SW; so they're probably best-off in a retro-ride (no matter how contrived they might be)...

But for the record, the four or five Falcons I have known in my little life (37 years) have been fine cars (considering what they were when new, and their place in the automotive kingdom).

All this wagon talk makes me think about resurrecting my mothballed '59 Edsel Villager wagon...332 V-8 (Ford), 3 speed on the column, radio & heater, no PB or PS. Now THERE'S a "classic" wagon (would be better if it were a '58 Bermuda!)

I just love all these City / Suburb folk who suddenly "can't live without" a four-wheel drive SUV/ uber-wagen.....

Well, enough ramblings...I'll be happy to give all the unwanted '62 -'63 Falcons "a good home"...

[Guest imported_Dwight V.]

Thanks, Frank, for posting your Falcon experiences. We are actually considering adding a Falcon wagon to the fleet, and knowing a bit about the smaller, less spunky engines is welcome news. As always, I hope for a V8, but if it's a six, that's okay too.

Unrelated Falcon note: my boss has a Econoline Falcon van he's owned for years, it's been parked behind his place for 5 years. He moved it this week to a new location, all it needed was a jump and fired right up.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

Dwight,

They always did fine by me...the '60-'62 certainly were no luxury machines; by '63 I think they were beginning to offer more creature comforts, particularly in the Futura and Sprint packages...

For their size, I found them to be reasonably roomy and comfortable, and they rode fairly well for a small car.

If you get one, try and find a 170 or 200 cid six...the 144 has only "historic value", as far as I'm concerned.

If you can, get a stick; if you do wind up with the 2-speed auto, I would suggest getting a replacment radiator that has the tranny cooler in the bottom tank, and removing the U-tube from the passenger side of the tranny, and in its place connecting steel lines to incorporate that tranny cooler...I finally did this with Mom's Falcon after it cooked the clutches in the AIR-COOLED factory-version of the 2-speed.

Also check for rust in the rear frame sections; needless to say, rear quarters are a usual rust spot, as are front floor boards...

Good Hunting !

I still harbor thoughts of getting another '62 Fordor Deluxe for my daily driver...tough trying to find a decent one up here in coal country...