South Park and Buick's image problem

[Dave@Moon]

Today's <span style="font-style: italic">South Park</span> episode was centered on the issue of elderly drivers that have become a danger to themselves and others. I didn't think it was not one of their better episodes, but it at least more balanced than some (though the first 15 minutes or so wouldn't lead you to believe that it could be).

The cars that the animators drew for the elderly drivers immediately caught my eye. Most resembled mid-1980's sedans, especially LTD's and K-cars. However the few "new" cars that they gave their elderly drivers were <span style="font-style: italic">clearly and exclusively</span> Buicks. The most prominent car in the episode was a 1997+ Century, illustrated with enough detail to include the tri-shield in the grille.

For those that do not understand the depth of Buick's current image problem, and why younger buyers are hesitant to buy a product that has an average (mean age) buyer that is probably over 70 (the current median buyer is 62), try to watch one of the re-runs of this episode later tonight or over the weekend on <span style="font-style: italic">Comedy Central</span>. When your brand name can be used in this manner, things are not good.

[Guest my3buicks]

Things would not be good in life if I found myself watching South Park.

[6219_Rules]

Dave, I agree whole heartedly. I watched that episode and thought the same. I was relieved that Cadillac was conspicuously absent! Maybe the attempts to change its image is working. However, the Cadillacs of the modern era are not what a luxury car means to me (I'm only 47). Now they are cramped, luxo-sport cars like the Mercedes or BMWs (which I find just as uncomfortable). I like the fact that Cadillac is shooting for the up and coming execu-bum but is some ways it changes the whole face of the car. Then again, I guess that could have been said back in the Fifties or late Thirties even, when a elegant, exclusive machine became the gris for the middle class product mill. Change is always hard.

In your opinion, as well as others here, how did the mid-ninties Roadmaster fair as far as design and durability? I have heard the engine and drive train are excellent but the cars I have seen looked tatty after a few short years of use. Will Buick ever make a full size car again or are we stuck with the Mid-size masquerading as a full size?

[Centurion]

In partial reply to your questions, Randall, I found the '90's Roadmasters to be very disappointing. I cannot speak to the quality of the cars; some friends of mine like theirs very much. I am convinced that there was a market for a full-size, rear wheel drive, V8-powered Buick sedan, but General Motors shot itself in the foot with the styling of these cars. A more elegant and graceful shape would have sold in far greater numbers and might have become a future collectible; as it was, the Buick suffered from the same bloated rear quarter proportions as the Chevrolet Caprice. The Cadillac variant fared slightly better in the styling department, although my initial reaction to that one was that the rear quarters were inspired by the 1972-73 Chrysler Imperial.

The Buick Park Avenue of the same era is far more attractively styled and, not surprisingly, was far more successful in the marketplace -- V6 power and front wheel drive notwithstanding.

[HurstGN]

I regularly make it a habit to watch South Park. I find their irreverent humor side splitting at times. I do enjoy how they pick either recent events (at the time of writing the episodes) or controversial topics and take pot shots at them with no less than a Howitzer.

Last nights episode was a little less sharp than others, but when you're making fun of old people driving, Buicks are always up on top of the list followed closely by Florida. Being in South Park Colorado, I didn't expect to see much aimed at Florida.

You hit the nail on the head with your comments, Dave. Buick does need to change this stereotype, and change it soon or we're all going to be hearing how that new Buick on the showroom floor still has the full warranty backed by GM directly. With automakers trying to capture the youth market with "performance" cars, I can't see why Buick doesn't take a look at the history of itself, and the performance they dealt out with stage motors to compete with the Hemi's of the day...and their turbocharging program when competing wasn't good enough. They went right to the top with the title of "Fastest U.S. Production Car" in 1986. I for one wouldn't mind seeing a Buick Stage motor re-introduced to compete with the new Hemi's being put out today. Heck, keep it in a truck too, like a Buick version of the new Envoy XUV.

Tiger Woods pulls up next to the now familiar Dodge pickup in a Buick XUV: "That thing got a hemi?"

Dodge driver: "Yup"

The traffic light turns green and they both launch...the Buick lays waste to the Dodge. At the next light, Tiger looks over and says but 3 words: "Stage II baby!"

The scene blurs out and the familiar Dodge driver is seen daydreaming at a drive-thru window. He mumbles : "Stage II...whew, what a nightmare."

Just then Tiger pulls up to the window in the Buick XUV. Fade to Black.

"Wouldn't you really rather drive a Buick?"

Hey, why not bring one of the old jingles out of retirement too? OK, back to an Earth where we know the only Stage Blocks coming anytime soon are coming from TA Performance......

I must say, officially living in the township of South Park, driving a Buick daily, and recently hitting a milestone ending with a 0....I could relate to last night's episode. Especially now that I know the Old Country Buffett on 51 (5 mins away) has closed their doors for good.

[Guest Skyking]

Geeze, I'm really getting tired of reading & hearing about OLD PEOPLE in Buicks. There are just as many old people driving Hondas, Toyotas, and every other yuppie car......

[Guest GS70Stage1]

I agree with all the above, but here in Florida, we actually have a "eventual left turn" - when a car goes for miles with the blinker on, and eventually makes a turn.

Impression is reality. Doesn't matter what the actual count of cars by age group, if the impression is that old people drive Buicks, then we need to at least start taking steps to change it. I think the first step is to recognize the issue. The proposed commercials for the Rainier Buick played at the Flint 100th were definately aimed at the younger buyers. And Tiger is a great statement for them also.

I think a closely related question, and more in our sphere of influence, is how can we as members of the BCA attract younger members to our events and club?

This is a great thread and thanks for starting it.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Geeze, I'm really getting tired of reading & hearing about OLD PEOPLE in Buicks. There are just as many old people driving Hondas, Toyotas, and every other yuppie car...... </div></div>

Not even close, Skyking.

The median Toyota or Honda buyer is <span style="font-weight: bold">at least 15 years younger</span> in <span style="font-weight: bold">every</span> survey. Because we're not talking about perfect bell curves (e.g. a "normal distribution"), this means that the average (mean) buyer is <span style="font-weight: bold">at least 20-25 years younger</span>, probably more so.

That's only a difference of about <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">33% of TOTAL LIFE EXPECTENTCY,</span> or nearly <span style="font-style: italic">ONE HALF THE AVERAGE TERM OF A LICENSED DRIVER!!!</span></span>

The biggest irony is that GM's best hope is now concentrated in Bob Lutz. Age, 71.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think a closely related question, and more in our sphere of influence, is how can we as members of the BCA attract younger members to our events and club?

</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Drive 'em, drive 'em, drive 'em, drive 'em, drive 'em,....</span>

Take your car, repleat with BCA sticker and pamphlets promoting your Chapter, to <span style="font-style: italic">every</span> damn cruise you can think of! Buicks were made for Chevy drivers to look up to anyway!

[Dave@Moon]

And while I'm thinking about it, two more things:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Things would not be good in life if I found myself watching South Park. </div></div> If you limit your horizons enough, then the sun can rise and set on you alone & the world will hold no problems until death's pending kiss. Or at least something like that came to me while I was staring at my navel this morning.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think a closely related question, and more in our sphere of influence, is how can we as members of the BCA attract younger members to our events and club? </div></div> Something else came to me while I was looking at one of my Triumph shirts that shows a line of Miatas with the TR ad copy line <span style="font-style: italic">"TRIUMPH OVER CONFORMITY"</span>. Perhaps there's a Chapter President among us who happens to have a Buick centered automotive apparel line (and who's Chapter holds the T-shirt marketing franchise within the the BCA) who could offer a classy, inexpensive line of embroidered shirts that read: "BUICK: BETTER THAN A CHEVY". Maybe they could include the Buick logos from 1930, 40, 50, 60, 70 and 80 as well for eye catching enhancement. Gee, I wonder.....

[Guest greg72monte]

I definitely to not fit in the age range of the typical

Buick buyer. I am now 46, but I purchased my first new

Buick in 1985, a Park Avenue. I was 28, and was the youngest person

in the showroom. I traded it for a new 95 Park Avenue, and was

still the youngest around.

I heard somewhere that the Grand Marquis is big seller for

the older crowd, I think it is the best selling car in Florida.

My father who is 76 owns one, as do many of his friends.

Greg

[6219_Rules]

I just want to interject here that being an Older person is not a disease (although aging has been likened to a disease...hmmm). We all age. Everyone, even the smarty mouthed punk with his tats and piercing will be 56 in, oh say 40 or so years (and boy won't those tats be pretty then!). He will walk into a convenience store or movie theater and feel the looks of distrust and dismissal from the younger crowd, hear the not so muted comments about Gramps and wonder what the hell do those punks know. Well they don't really know that they will be in his shoes one day too. The real shame here, one that haunts this country, is that older citizens are being excluded, shunned and dismissed as worthless as early as 45 from business, and life in general.

Isn't it odd, that with all that experience no one wants to tap into it? We just keep reinventing the wheel because the Old Folks are out of step, over the hill, stuck in their rut...well you get the idea.

It bothers me that we as a nation ignore and isolate the elderly.

We are so caught up in looking and being twenty that we have forgotten that when you are twenty you generally haven't a clue...its a whole new ball game. I have embraced the aging process because of the perspective it lends me and honestly because I have no choice in the matter. I watch as the elderly shy away from the radical youth out of some fear and revulsion at their no holds barred approach to life, and the youth turn from the elderly because they feel dismissed as irrelevant, ignorant and too immature. This is an old controversy but it takes on a new impetus when advertising and the media constantly play to the 18 to 30 crowd, leaving the aging members of society feeling left behind, abandoned and impotent.

It should be an indicator of desirability and prestige if an older successful man chooses a Buick, or a Cadillac, rather than a badge of decrepitude. The marque is not dying...we are. And were someone of taste, education, experience to buy a car, it means something. When a child buys a car because it is flashy and immediate, it means something too. They are testing the water, finding out what they like, experiencing freedom for themselves for the first time. Yet we base our modern values on the immediate, the gratification of whim rather than experience and taste born of that experience and its education. Sure it is wonderful to be young and beautiful...but that is all transitory. Experience and culture are brewed in time and that takes age.

Just a thought for the day. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[Dave@Moon]

Sorry Randall, but that is not where Buick's image as an old man's car is causing problems. Even the most hard-headed youth out there does not ignore products simply because they see old people using them.

Marketing is geared to 20-30 year olds for a very good reason: <span style="font-style: italic">"when you are twenty you generally haven't a clue...its a whole new ball game."</span> In other words, marketing still works on you when you're young.

How many older BCA members have you heard pine for the the GS/Riviera/Century/Wildcat/Skylark/whatever of their youth because it was <span style="font-style: italic">"flashy and immediate"</span> to them at a time when that would influence them. The fact that that attraction turned out to be rewarding because the product was well made and reliable is why they're still interested.

It's the new interest that's been lost to Buick.

There are some 75 year old Mercedes and Volvo buyers out there who likewise have kept interest in their marque of choice for similar reasons, <span style="font-style: italic">but they share the showroom with 30 and 40 year old buyers who have had a like experience with [color:\\"red\\"]<span style="font-weight: bold">those</span> marques!</span> The fact that there are numerous elderly Mercedes and Volvo buyers out there isn't exactly keeping the upwardly mobile boomer and Gen-X crowd away from those showrooms. <span style="font-weight: bold">Where are the equivalent Buick buyers?</span>

Mostly out test driving Avalons and Acuras right now.

The Buicks that are being ignored by today's 40-somethings are actually pretty good cars. The Regal and the Century in particular rank nearly as well as their main competators from Toyota and Honda, albeit in a slight softer/more comfortable/less performance oriented vein. The poor quality of the <span style="font-style: italic">"flashy and immediate"</span> Buicks of that age group's 20 year old phase are costing Buick dearly today.

And, uhh.... The <span style="font-style: italic">"flashy and immediate"</span> Buicks of today are.... Uhhh.... Well.....

<span style="font-weight: bold">MOSTLY SOLD BY LEXUS!</span>

[HurstGN]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Something else came to me while I was looking at one of my Triumph shirts that shows a line of Miatas with the TR ad copy line "TRIUMPH OVER CONFORMITY". Perhaps there's a Chapter President among us who happens to have a Buick centered automotive apparel line (and who's Chapter holds the T-shirt marketing franchise within the the BCA) who could offer a classy, inexpensive line of embroidered shirts that read: "BUICK: BETTER THAN A CHEVY". Maybe they could include the Buick logos from 1930, 40, 50, 60, 70 and 80 as well for eye catching enhancement. Gee, I wonder..... </div></div>

I hear some sort of buzzing in my ear...I wonder what it could be?

G and I have discussed this and it's on my future plans for the club assuming I'm re-elected at this next meeting. I think that's in the bag tho...I mean, no other foo....er member is prolly willing to stand still and not leap backwards when somebody asks for someone to step forward.

I have one other project in the works Dave...once I get that project all sorted out, I'll be addressing the buzz in my ear. You may now go back to pondering the meaning of life while examining your navel.

[Gene Brink]

Thank you Dave. Another good chain and a thought provoking subject to say the least. I think you have hit the nail pretty much right on the head! A couple of thoughts from the following; <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's the new interest that's been lost to Buick.

There are some 75 year old Mercedes and Volvo buyers out there who likewise have kept interest in their marque of choice for similar reasons, but they share the showroom with 30 and 40 year old buyers who have had a like experience with those marques! The fact that there are numerous elderly Mercedes and Volvo buyers out there isn't exactly keeping the upwardly mobile boomer and Gen-X crowd away from those showrooms. Where are the equivalent Buick buyers?

Mostly out test driving Avalons and Acuras right now.

The Buicks that are being ignored by today's 40-somethings are actually pretty good cars. The Regal and the Century in particular rank nearly as well as their main competitors from Toyota and Honda, albeit in a slight softer/more comfortable/less performance oriented vein. The poor quality of the "flashy and immediate" Buicks of that age group's 20 year old phase are costing Buick dearly today.

And, hush.... The "flashy and immediate" Buicks of today are.... Hush.... Well..... </div></div>

Yep, new (read as young) buyers are scarce. More a matter of perception than objective evaluation <span style="font-style: italic">I think</span> but in actuality there isn't anything wrong with their choice of cars - they are good cars (mostly Japanese for the young buyer) delivering excellent performance and value.

Yes there are 75 year old buyers of Mercedes, Volvo and Buick (as well as virtually every other marquee) but you are correct that there are significantly fewer 30-40 year old buyers (by percentage for these two marques since they do not see that many cars...) buying Buicks. You are correct in that this probably stems from their past experiences with cars which leads me to perception. As you stated the performance (on the road - certainly not resale and to a lesser degree reliability) between Buick and its counterparts from Toyota, Nissan, et al is very small. Comparing performance figures shows Buick to be right in the pack (which is not a bad place to be) with most of its offerings BUT I'll bet that most people would not guess this to be the case. Somehow this perception has to be changed (not just for Buick but generally for the entire U.S. automobile industry) to avoid further market share loss. How to do it? I don't know what would work but do know that if I were in charge Buick would:

1) Sell nothing but the handling suspension system in all it's vehicles (even though it is a "performance type" suspension it rides comfortably and few, if any, would actually notice. 2) Buy components with a "high quality" feel (like window switches, headlight switches, upholstery materials, etc...) so interiors did not feel "cheap" (sometimes in comparison to cars costing less). 3) Push hard to get some innovation under the hood (this may be changing with the new engines slated to be on the market soon - certainly hope so) as this is an area where people feel as though the imports have it over the U.S. offerings. And, 4) Manufacture a car with the ability to perform well in all categories (acceleration, stopping, going around corners with control, be reliable, excellent build quality, etc...). I don't think they are that far off but getting people into the showroom to sample what is there is a difficult proposition.

[Guest Skyking]

I guess at this point, the only thing I can say is, maybe, just maybe, the older people are much wiser....

[Guest]

Don't watch much TV, so am not familiar with South Park. However, I've been driving 'old people's cars' for 40 years before I became an old people (72)- I like 'em! Went from Chryslers to Rolls-Royce to Lincoln and now to Buick (fixed income & all that). I'm the Saturday morning Q-tip and toothbrush type. If a car is spotless, quiet, refined and comfortable, and that makes it an old people's car, so be it! Besides, the blue-haired chicks at Safeway often remark about my beautiful car (though I prefer more recent models in that area). There's too much noise and gee-whiz running around already - I'll take the quiet ride!

[BigFella]

I think some of you guys are digging to deep at South Park for the Buick comment. South Park has always been known for taking some incident out of the news and plastering it with comment in their cartoon. This issue seems to be based on the Gent (82 Years Young?) in California who made national headlines when he plowed his car (A Buick) through a crowded street market. By the way, they proudly displayed the car on every TV station and news media that carried the story. There was no doubt it was a Buick, especially when they showed the front of the car!!! It's also quoted in every article "Butts said he did not have an estimate of the car's speed. Witnesses said the red 1992 Buick was moving very fast." Not a good thing for the Buick image for sure. I don't know if they intended to portray Buick as an older car and it is the only model shown with the distinctive markings, but it was also the one in the media for the incident that had Californians asking about restricting or retesting elder drivers...which created a pretty big political storm until the issue died down and went away...It just seems to me that they were replicating this in a funny way as they do with other hot topics of the day.

I'm 35 and have a Buick...and keep wishing Buick would do something for my age bracket...I'd love to see a sporty full size car with a V8. How about a full size drop top again? Ford is contemplating it with the Merc Marauder...Buick seems to wait for three to five years before jumping into an arena like it did with SUV's...or restyling...or advertising with vintage style...I think they still have the sales to take a chance, but if they keep waiting they will not. As my age group climbs in age alot of us remember the cookie cutter cars from the late 80's, when we could finally afford a car, and that is when the Asian invasion took full swing...so will we think of Buick when we're closing in on the Buick targeted age group? It's a tough question we should ask Oldmobile to answer for us now before it's too late...

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

The Foo.... I mean the Sheriff is gonna do it

Dan

[Philippe Racicot]

I think that the problem with new Buicks is that they seem like old people's cars to older people! My grandfather who is now 88 says that new Buick look like old people's cars! Being young (I'm 26) I don't care driving a car that's designed for 85 years old people but someone who is 62 probably cares more!

I think that even the current Buick buyers are loyal Buick customers that continue to buy Buicks because that's what they always did (that will probably happen to me). I'm sure that these persons would be pleased to buy cars with younger image.

The nineties Roadmasters could have been great cars if they would have looked like the Park Avenue Ultra and would have been powered by a Buick engine. I guess that more dynamic looking Roadmasters would have sold in much greater quantities than they did.

[Redrob]

I think there are a few things going on here. No question Buick has been marketing to the 'mature' buyer. I think they have seen the error of their ways now, too many of their customers have been downsizing to wheelchairs. What Gm exec said you could market a young person's car to an old person, but you can't market an old person's car to a young person? Was it Bunkie Knudsen? Buick had made the same error as Pontiac did. I hope we figured it out in time. Time, and Bob Lutz, will tell.

The other thing happening is that South Park is a ridiculous show that exaggerates whatever they make fun of. Buick has an immediately recognizable symbol and clientele, we become an obvious target. I think we're all big enough to take a little ribbing, as well as recognize that South Park is generally full of it.

[ranchero]

Even "mature" buyers, like me, appreciate a COUPE. Where are Buick coupes? For those of you who think a Buick can only be a Park Avenue or LeSabre four door sedans, coupes are two door cars. Maybe you've seen Mustangs? Those are coupes. Buick made coupes at one time. These are the Buicks that are remembered, loved. These would includes cars named "Riviera", "Reatta", "Skylark", "GS", "Grand National", "Wildcat" and even "LeSabre". Either pillarless hardtop (see one of the first - a Roadmaster Riviera) or simply a two door sedan (a T-Type LeSabre maybe)is a coupe, is attractive and if one were available it might change Buick's demographics. Mature buyers like me (who owns two older Buick two door cars) can buy coupes, but only from brands with younger demographics. But it need not be a Mustang. It can be a fine, understated, quality car like a Mercedes CLK or BMW 3 series. It can be a bit more flashy and from an American brand that markets to mature and younger buyers (Cadillac XLR, Chrysler Crossfire). To get any buzz about a desirable car it must be a two door (coupe or convertible). Nobody makes a trip to a dealership to see the new four door sedans. Buick needs a coupe!

[HurstGN]

No lie...this morning on KDKA Radio in Pittsburgh, I discovered Buick doesn't have an image problem. Buick is actively marketing to the Senior Citizens. They are offering discounts for card carrying AARP members.

"But wait...I'm old, and I'm not an AARP member. What am I to do?"

You say you're old? You say you don't have an AARP membership card? Well, don't you fret none pondering your navel for the meaning of life...just head on over to your Buick dealer ole Buckaroo!! You can fill out your AARP application right at the dealership and STILL get your old fart discount!! Oh yea! If you weren't officially old coming into the dealership, you will be upon leaving!

NO TIGER!!! DON'T GO IN THE DEALERSHIP!!! D@mn! Now he's gonna have to play on the senior tour.