AGNM and driving....

[Guest greg72monte]

On another DF (VCCA) someone commented that a a car

driven to a AGNM can not possibly compete. I was promptly

told by another VCCA & AACA member that driven cars have

successfully competed before, and was encouraged to

participate. My 72 Monte Carlo has consistently scored

982 plus (of a possible 1000) at several VCCA meets.

(They DO return the judging sheets). I drove to Carlisle (180 miles)

and to Hershey (140 miles) and will be driving 350 miles to Buffalo.

I WILL be going, even though I will be in the minority.

What is the general opinion of those on this forum?

Thanks,

Greg Roser

[Guest John W. Harvey]

Yes folks, I am the VCCA & AACA member that promptly told Greg that driven cars have successfully competed before in the AGNM.

Greg,

As you know (but others may not) I am very familiar with your car. In fact, both Cindy and I, on seperate occasions, have had the privilege of judging your Monte Carlo. I would personally be disappointed in you if you didn't attend and compete in the AACA AGNM.

Yes, your car can and will out-point some (many) that are transported in a trailer. I will admit, when I arrived at Moline for the AGNM with an open trailer, I felt like a duck-out-of-water. There were very few open trailers, and even less members that drove their car to the meet. I drove the entire trip through rain. My car was a mess. I worked for 12 hours in front of the host hotel cleaning my car from the 12 hour trip. This was the 1st and only trip that my family couldn't attend with me.

I got great encouragement from Johnnie Garner and his wife (I'm embarrassed that I forget her name). They were parked next to me with 1 of their Mustangs. They have now brought 3 Mustangs through the AACA...... all have now won the AGNM Senior award. They drive their cars to every meet! They spent the better part of Thursday and Friday cleaning their Mustang from the rainy trip.

It felt great when they called my name for the 1st place AGNM award! All the work was suddenly worth every hard minute I spent on the car. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This past weekend in Hershey, I judged Peter Heizmann's car. Peter has an open trailer.... ran through the same rain and mess to get to Moline.... Peter too has "earned" his AGNM Senior. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As you know, I have moved from an open trailer to an enclosed trailer. Less worry, less work, but most of all, because of my health issues that you and I have discussed. I wouldn't go back to the open trailer.

Peter Heizmann has a brilliant idea when he is trailering his car and might need to drive to the show field......... he brings some water and rags. Novel idea...... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, Greg.... bring your Monte! We will be there trying to repeat!

John <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[ex98thdrill]

Hey knock yourself out. We've got older stuff where we won't drive them because of risk of damage to the car, and to keep the cars cleaner. Before we leave to enter a show, we wash and wax everything to include the chassis itself. Because we are only 80 miles away, one of them will be taken on an open trailer, but after the show, it'll be loaded up and taken back home that night. With the newer style hinges on your Monte Carlo, you don't have to worry about some idiot walking up and opening up your hood and scraping the whole side of your fender with those older type piano style hood hinges. We had some idiot do that at a show to one of our other cars while my father went to use the facilities. When I have seen idiots standing on running boards, letting their dogs jump on the sides of cars, letting their belt buckles scrape your fenders as they're admiring your engine, etc. I'd never drive one and leave it unattended. I'd like to see you get your AGMN with your car, but on the flip side, I'd be sick if some idiot did something to damage it. I saw a guy in the Red Field at Hershey that had a real nice '39 Chrysler that had some idiot put scratches in the front and back fenders on the driver's side because they weren't paying attention when they were walking by it. It wasn't noticed until after the fact, but by in either case the damage was done.

[Guest John W. Harvey]

ex98thdrill,

I'm confused... all the damage that you mentioned had nothing to do with whether the car was trailered or driven? Same damage could be done at local event as well?

John

[66 Mystery Chevelle]

I would think the biggest concern once at the show would be not having a Place to keep the car away from the elements, and the criminal at night. At the show itself, and I can only speak for myself... you have to be a security guard... I hardly ever feel comfortable leaving my car, esp. at HERSHEY with parking being so close and the crowds being so huge!

As to whether you can compete with a driven car or not. Well, based on some of the other posts going on right now and how judging is flexible and forgiving, and not cut throat...I can see where you can compete with ease. Not so at most BRAND NAME shows...ie..MOPAR Nats or Chevelle Nationals...but based on what has been said of your car and these other judging discussions...I'd say sure...drive it. But I would still look into the possibility of a enclosed trailer for safety and security. and I know someone will say, but we have 24 hr security....not so at most hotels and even at HERSHEY, they had it...but I can tell you first hand..I left my car and trailer in the lot over night and at 5:30 am...just drove right up to my trailer with my friend's car and was not even questioned...

[Guest greg72monte]

Yes, one of my main concerns is security once I arrive.

The elements I can deal with. Those with open trailers

are faced with the same dilemma that I am as a driver,

weather & security. I have contacted the meet chairman at the

Lake Erie Region raising this very question, and am awaiting a

response. I would love to have an enclosed trailer for long

trips such as this, but I don't have that luxury at this time.

What have those with open trailers experienced, as far as damage

and theft in conditions such as these?

John, any response, knowing that you you used an open trailer

for several years.

Thanks,

Greg

[Guest John W. Harvey]

Greg,

Vandalizm is always a concern. Fortunately, I never had any bad experiences with the open trailer. I carefully chose my parking locations and covered the car with a quality car cover with a lock and cable. At the AGNM in Moline, I parked right in front of the host hotel next to the Mustang that I mentioned before. There was a light right above the cars. We both used car covers. I just quit worrying and took comfort in the fact that no one wants a 74 Monte Carlo and that I have it insured! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Fortunate maybe.... but, if someone wants a vehicle bad enough or wants to do damage, an enclosed trailer isn't going to provide much more in the way of security. For the life of me, I don't understand why trailer owners advertise what type of vehicle is being transported in the trailer. I think a safer alternative would be to letter the trailer with "John's Sewer Service", "Everything Is One Turd Off!" I don't think many will break into this trailer!

John <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Ron Green]

I like to go to the AGNM to BS with everyone and show a car. In Montoursville a few years back I watched as these guys cleaned 3 vehicles for 2 days because they drove them there. It didn't seem like much fun to me however they did win the award they went after. Did not do anything but work on them the entire time.

In Moline I spoke to a guy that had his vehicle stolen the night before in Joliet Chicago down the road and he had a enclosed trailer. So to each there own but I prefer a enclosed trailer with guard dog training school decaled on the side.

[ex98thdrill]

No that's true. But what I'm talking about is when you park someplace when you're along the road and have to stop.

[6219_Rules]

I am curious. How much do open trailers cost, and how much are enclosed trailers?

This sounds to me like a part of the hobby some one on limited means cannot participate in other than to show the car as a tourer or just as an interest.

I must admit I am losing interest in showing, but I would still like to go to a Grand National some time just to be there.

[Guest John W. Harvey]

Randall,

Good observation! As with automobiles, the price of a trailer depends on what type, what make, quality, options, GVWR, materials used, etc etc. I have a whole page on my website devoted to the selection of my enclosed trailer. You can check it out here: http://home.comcast.net/~harveyj4/Harvey_Hobby_Hauler_Page.htm

John <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[6219_Rules]

thanks John, I will check it out. My son is looking at getting a trailer for the cars.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, Greg...

Congrats on getting your award.

As John mentioned, that was a challenge going to Moline in heavy rains.

("Hard as Nails, Tough as Bricks, Harvard Class of '46".)

I believe John, myself, and, Mike Crown (66 Mystery Chevelle) bought our enclosed trailers at about the same time. As Mike and Ron Green mentioned, it does give one a sense of security, however, chip damage, too, is a concern. Guess it is a case of to each his/her own.

My practice is, if the car show is about 40 miles each way, I will drive it, any further, I trailer it.

I am quite certain some of the long time DF'ers on here recall that man who had his whole rig stolen (Pickup truck, trailer, and, old car) a few years ago. John is on the ball asking why one would advertise what is inside the trailer. I placed the AACA trailer decals on mine...those are coming off in the Spring.

To show one that advertising attracts...Ron & Judy Flory and I went to the Spring Meet in Greenville, SC. I keep the trailer in a local "Lock & Store" yard. The trailer was in what I considered a secure lot, the trailer was empty. When I walked around the back, low and behold: Someone took a sharp object, sliced the aluminum skin on the ramp door, and, probably became frustrated when they could not get through the plywood interior wall. They saw the AACA decals and probably thought there was a car inside?.

(Anyone want to invest in a money maker...John Harvey and I have a patent on "Water Jug and Rags". Look on the NYSE under: "Almagamated Common Sense Corporation" for investment opportunities.) And, No!!, we won't pull an Enron deal on you.

Regards, Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[novaman]

The place where I work, we had several trailers in the past couple of years broken into. We had fencing with brab wire on top installed. They cut the chain on the gate. Broke into the trailer parked there the day before. They even borke into the generator compartment and stold that. They also spent a while trying to get into my boss's double high car trailer. Two more good pulls would have had them in. They tore up the door big time. Ashame they didn't get in though. As soon as that door would have opened, the secruity alarm people would have been calling the Sheriff's department and an employee 3 minutes away. Might have been able to get them.

[66 Mystery Chevelle]

I know this is now turning into a new topic...sorry...but I have to respectfully disagree John...If someone wants to steal your car, an Enclosed trailer provides WAYYYY more security than an open trailer. Locks on rear door, Locks on side doors, car locked inside, car strapped down...truck attached to trailer....all that and the fact that nobody can see what you have inside..unless you advertise <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />No chips in the paint on long trips, no fear of a hail storm while traveling or at the show, and mine doubles as a rest stop with my twin bed inside...came in handy for my trips to Nashville and Atlanta this summer.

As for price, expect to pay in the hood of $1700 for a good Open trailer, $2300 for a better one....Enclosed trailer...depends...22ft or 24 ft, options, brand name...and GVW...I tell everyone to get a 10,000LB GVW....but in a nut shell...about $6500 is a ballpark.

All that said, one has to enjoy the hobby within their financial means...not everyone can afford the luxury of a trailer, enclosed or open...My car is very valuable, I have SCARY money in it...so I have to protect my investment.

Mike

PS sorry I missed ya Peter in Hershey!

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, Mike...likewise, but, as you pointed out, the great throng of spectators did not allot much time for socializing. Glad you had a good time...

Be in touch, Peter J.

[Guest John W. Harvey]

Mike,

We are on the same page..... I don't know what you mis-read in this statement:

[color:"red"] "but, if someone wants a vehicle bad enough or wants to do damage, an enclosed trailer isn't going to provide much more in the way of security."

I never intended, stated, indicated, or even hinted that an enclosed trailer isn't more secure than an open trailer.... or did I by mistake! My point was that if someone wants in bad enough, they will do what is necessary!

My car is in an enclosed for many of the reasons that you have mentioned..... and more! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

John <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[DizzyDale]

After a day at the drags,i use to spend 1/2 a day cleaning my assorted cars before racing the next time,sometimes the next day sometimes the next week.Can not imagine getting caught in the rain driving for hours,bottom of the car can NEVER be the same.diz <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[ex98thdrill]

Same here. Locks only keep honest people honest. You can have your car in a building with an alarm system on the building and the car, and if the thief wants it bad enough, they'll take it.

We have a homemade open trailer that we paid $800 for about 14 years ago, and our enclosed trailer is a 26' that we bought used for $3,500 back in '97.

[Guest greg72monte]

Thanks all for your responses. This topic seems to have

drifted from "can a driven car compete" to "the merits of

trailering". I never disputed the benefits of trailering.

I would like to have one myself, some day, but will not

have it by the AGNM. All of you have very valid comments

and I appreciate them all.

The end result is I am going to the AGNM, and I am

going to have a good time, and meet some new friends,

and renew some old friendships. Yes, I am very protective

of my car, and I LIKE to drive.....and there is always

insurance.

Greg Roser

[6219_Rules]

Greg,

I say in the end, it comes down to what makes you happier. We all love our cars. Some decided to show that by trailering them, others prefer to drive them. In the long run it is your car, your money, and your time and efforts that are represented. I would not like to drive my car were I to have the money and have it restored to new. It would KILL me to see rock chips on that paint.

So I made the decision that I would not have a WINNER but a car that gives me the greatest joy possible...driving around in a 1947 Cadillac. Neither is a better solution than the other...in this regard it IS relative, relative to the joy it brings the owner. I think your attitude is sound. Drive it, show it, and enjoy the experience.