6 volt +ground to 12 volt -ground conversion

[Jack Bennett]

The 1929 Fargo express panel truck I have been working on for the past months has became a continual series of unexpected tasks.

Fully aware that the truck was a collection of loosely assembled rust and rot, I was never fooled into thinking it would be a easy project to restore.

In fact, were I looking for a pristine vehicle to drive I would have just bought a new Navigator or other SUV, and called it “good”.

But, the Fargo appeared to be the perfect investment for a guy who enjoys restoring cars more than he enjoys driving them, and the truck seemed to offer years of tinkering enjoyment in one pitiful package.

However, now that I have replaced the original engine, transmission, drive shaft, brakes, and whateve, I was able to start the truck and move it out of the rain to work on the cab interior and upholstery.

Then the truck threw me a curve, which may be expected from a 95 year old truck, but unwelcome just the same.

Having replaced the flathead (25”) six cylinder engine which a 1950 (23”) engine, it was necessary to modify the brake, clutch and accelerator pedals on the new engine to fit into the shorter, and narrower floor boards of the Fargo…..as compared to the donor Dodge Pilothouse truck, from which the engine came.

After some amount of nageling, and a small amount of blood letting, the pedals were completed and declared operational.

But, for whatever reason, and here a explanation “why” would be welcomed, the starter, a Autolite MCH 6101 is a stomp activate starter, and the one originally installed in the truck was a electrically operated starter.

That causes a problem since there isn’t room on the Fargo floorboards to fit a foot operated starter switch between the brake pedal and the accelerator. But I did…….and it worked real good until the bendix of the starter moved rearward, contacting the windings of the armature, and causing the starter to fail.

Now I am experiencing the reality of having to install a very expensive replacement starter into the same cramped conditions as those causing the demise of its predecessor.

Or, I can follow up on my plans to convert the six volt system, with which I have absolutely no problem, with to a 12 volt system which includes a alternator, eliminating the need for a generator or cut-out switch, a electrically operated (12 volt) starter and a new (12 volt) coil.

The truck already is being equipped with turn signal and brake lights which house 12 volt bulbs, has, currently 6 volt headlights, which can be easily replaced with either 12 volt incandescent sealed beams or LED replacements.

The amp meter really doesn’t care, except for a polarity change, or installation of a new gauge, which will probably be required anyway.

other than that I see no problem with conversion of the system from the presently installed 6 volt, positive ground system to a 12 volt, negative ground, and, in a modern sense, easier and more economically manageable electrical system.

I have been advised of the wisdom that, prior to entering upon any laudable, and most certainly expensive undertaking, evoking the aid of Deity is encouraged.

However, in this particular case, I am certain that the consequences of replacing a electrical system on a old truck is of minor significance to a otherwise busy Deity………....

So I am asking for the advice and suggestions of any well versed forum members on the plus, negative aspects of this plan.

Jack

Edited July 15 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[ABear]

Oh dear, prepare yourself for the barrage of pitchfork wielding conversion haters..

 

[Packard enthus.]

9 minutes ago, Jack Bennett said:

 

In fact, were I looking for a pristine vehicle to drive I would have just bought a new Navigator or other SUV, and called it “good”....... perfect investment for a guy who enjoys restoring cars more than he enjoys driving them......., now that I have replaced the original engine, transmission, drive shaft, brakes, and whateve,

So I am asking for the advice and suggestions of any well versed forum members on the plus, negative aspects of this plan.

Jack

Have you considered the advantages of a new vehicle...in terms of being an easier platform for you to improve?  Are you aware that this particular organization encourages participants to encourage historical accuracy?

 

May I make a respectful suggestion - if you are seriously interested in the AACA and its interest in historical accuracy, wouldn't you be more true to our purpose;  our reason for existence,  to buy a new or un-modified vehicle?

 

Yes, you, as you note, may get more satisfaction from tinkering, than actually using a motor vehicle for  1) the purpose it was designed for....and   2) keeping it historically accurate.    But "gutting" a vehicle and replacing what it was,  with more modern components ...well....can you tell us how you feel that fits in with the purpose for which AACA exists?

 

 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

23 minutes ago, Jack Bennett said:

The 1929 Fargo express panel truck I have been working on for the past months has became a continual series of unexpected tasks.

Fully aware that the truck was a collection of loosely assembled rust and rot, I was never fooled into thinking it would be a easy project to restore.

In fact, were I looking for a pristine vehicle to drive I would have just bought a new Navigator or other SUV, and called it “good”.

But, the Fargo appeared to be the perfect investment for a guy who enjoys restoring cars more than he enjoys driving them, and the truck seemed to offer years of tinkering enjoyment in one pitiful package.

However, now that I have replaced the original engine, transmission, drive shaft, brakes, and whateve, I was able to start the truck and move it out of the rain to work on the cab interior and upholstery.

Then the truck threw me a curve, which may be expected from a 95 year old truck, but unwelcome just the same.

Having replaced the flathead (25”) six cylinder engine which a 1950 (23”) engine, it was necessary to modify the brake, clutch and accelerator pedals on the new engine to fit into the shorter, and narrower floor boards of the Fargo…..as compared to the donor Dodge Pilothouse truck, from which the engine came.

After some amount of nageling, and a small amount of blood letting, the pedals were completed and declared operational.

But, for whatever reason, and here a explanation “why” would be welcomed, the starter, a Autolite MCH 6106, is a stomp activate starter, and the one originally installed in the truck was a electrically operated starter.

That causes a problem since there isn’t room on the Fargo floorboards to fit a foot operated starter switch between the brake pedal and the accelerator. But I did…….and it worked real good until the bendix of the starter moved rearward, contacting the windings of the armature, and causing the starter to fail.

Now I am experiencing the reality of having to install a very expensive replacement starter into the same cramped conditions as those causing the demise of its predecessor.

Or, I can follow up on my plans to convert the six volt system, with which I have absolutely no problem, with to a 12 volt system which includes a alternator, eliminating the need for a generator or cut-out switch, a electrically operated (12 volt) starter and a new (12 volt) coil.

The truck already is being equipped with turn signal and brake lights which house 12 volt bulbs, has, currently 6 volt headlights, which can be easily replaced with either 12 volt incandescent sealed beams or LED replacements.

The amp meter really doesn’t care, except for a polarity change, or installation of a new gauge, which will probably be required anyway.

other than that I see no problem with conversion of the system from the presently installed 6 volt, positive ground system to a 12 volt, negative ground, and, in a modern sense, easier and more economically manageable electrical system.

I have been advised of the wisdom that, prior to entering upon any laudable, and most certainly expensive undertaking, evoking the aid of Deity is encouraged.

However, in this particular case, I am certain that the consequences of replacing a electrical system on a old truck is of minor significance to a otherwise busy Deity………....

So I am asking for the advice and suggestions of any well versed forum members on the plus, negative aspects of this plan.

Jack

 

  You asked!!  GO FOR IT.   And don't look back.    YOU will never be sorry.  Alternators are a dime a dozen, figuratively speaking.  Wiring that is marginal for 6V is adequate for 12V.   Bulbs cost the same, maybe less in 12V.  Win, win.

 

Ben

[Packard enthus.]

Just now, ABear said:

Oh dear, prepare yourself for the barrage of pitchfork wielding conversion haters..

Yes - you have a point.   As the generations change, and the culture changes with it,  shouldn't this organization evolve to reflect that?   WHy not rip an old vehicle apart, and install more modern, more advanced components?

 

I for one, bitterly resent the fact that the PACKARD MOTOR CAR COMPANY failed to offer "factory air" until two years after my car was producted.   It steers nicely and easily once in motion...but hot damn....wouldn't power steering be nice when all 6,000 lbs of it are standing still?

 

And that ridiculous obsolete 480 cubic inch V-12....true....with its engine with its wedged-shaped combustion chamber... incredible torque, is doing nicely keeping up with modern traffic......BUT

 

I love tinkering with my new GMC diesel - which gets better fuel mileage moving its 8,000 lb. "crew-cab" body....WHILE TOWING THE PACKARD TWELVE INSIDE ITS 4,000 lb. enclosed "box" trailer....maybe I should shove the Packard back into my garage, and use my chain hoist to rip out its  Twelve,  and install a nice modern GMC/Durmax V-8diesel....hmmm...while at it...that silly old manual transmission should go to.....that ten speed in my new GMC shifts thru the gears so smoothly I really cant feel them.

 

Oh well..why bother...in only twenty years I can call that new truck of mine an "antique"...! (trouble is....wouldn't it be logical to rip out its present "guts" and enjoy "tinkering" with what becomes available in the future?  (oh...some folks might say that makes no sense given what the AACA's purpose is......but...let's get "modern" in our thinking....!)

[ABear]

5 minutes ago, Packard enthus. said:

Yes - you have a point.   As the generations change, and the culture changes with it,  shouldn't this organization evolve to reflect that?   WHy not rip an old vehicle apart, and install more modern, more advanced components?

You know, I "get it" that all attempts should be made to "preserve" a vehicle as close to "original" as possible. But I am also a "realist" and often times finding and using all 100% original parts or keeping every nut, bolt and electrical 100% original just isn't happening due to availability, cost, space and sometimes needing to sub in some more modern parts just to make it "go" again.

 

My point in my post was there always a avalanche of dislike that happens when someone even whispers that shunned phrase in front of  car enthusiasts and it is a very hot button topic, not just on this forum but even places like the Model T forums..

 

This is why I don't come to online forums for advice when it comes to "original" or "modernization" for my vehicles. Instead, I assess what I have, make what I have work and sometimes I am forced to improvise, but they are MY vehicles and I am not restoring them to satisfy some forum jockeys puffed up egos on how "perfect" of a restoration to original it is.

 

It is Jack's vehicle, let Jack do what he needs to do to make it "go" again, RELIABLY.

[Jack Bennett]

10 minutes ago, Packard enthus. said:

Have you considered the advantages of a new vehicle...in terms of being an easier platform for you to improve?  Are you aware that this particular organization encourages participants to encourage historical accuracy?

 

May I make a respectful suggestion - if you are seriously interested in the AACA and its interest in historical accuracy, wouldn't you be more true to our purpose;  our reason for existence,  to buy a new or un-modified vehicle?

 

Yes, you, as you note, may get more satisfaction from tinkering, than actually using a motor vehicle for  1) the purpose it was designed for....and   2) keeping it historically accurate.    But "gutting" a vehicle and replacing what it was,  with more modern components ...well....can you tell us how you feel that fits in with the purpose for which AACA exists?

 

 

Well……..Gee………since the forum is a place for like minded people to meet and talk about the hobby of antique car restoration, and I only have restored four other vehicles, I guess it is time for me to head down to the Bingo parlor or maybe buy a 10,000 piece puzzle to (sedately) work.

Had you read the post, you may have noticed that the 1929 Fargo Express panel delivery came with a flathead six cylinder engine, it also came with a electric start, rather than a bastardized stomp button hidden in a unsafe spot under the brake pedal, and a real pain to press because it was so near the accelerator pedal.

I concur that the hobby encourages use of period correct materials, and adherence to aesthetics is a desirable, but not always possible, part of a good restoration.

A problem I have here though presented itself early into my entry into the hobby. And that was the replacement of the mechanical brake system on my newly acquired 1927 Willys Knight.

Being a perfectionist I suppose you are aware that the only period correct, and purist acceptable brake shoe lining for a 1927 vintage car was sold as being “Green”, and has not been available on the common car parts market for half a century. 
That said, I bundled up my brake bands and shoes and trecked down to Eugene, Oregon to hire a man named Jerry Hiatte, also lauded as a “expert” on antique vehicle friction repairs and replacement to do a “period correct” restoration of the natty, and totally unsafe brake shoes/bands.

Jerry had copious quantities of “Green”…….non asbestos…….non metallic…..brake lining materials, and quoted me a decent price to replace the linings on both the front shoes and the rear bands I dropped off.

A few weeks later Jerry called to inform me that my linings were completed and I could either come to Eugene to pick them up, or he could mail them to me.

Naturally, rather than making another 400 mile trip I asked him to mail them to me.

And then, he, bing a notorious expert on antique friction products, asked me why I went to the trouble of making the trip before, and paying a premium price for the “Green” material when Tacoma Friction products could have done it locally, in much less time and travel expenses, and for about 1/4 the cost of the materials he had used.

”Gulp……!”……..being a man of many words, I was exquisitely embarrassed when I found myself totally without a answer.

I do agree with you though on the bastardizing of a 95 year old (I call them “zombie vehicles” through use of inert gas welders, chrome and powder coating processes which would make grand-dad shudder and three part acrylic enamels on a truck that rightfully deserved to be shredded where it died in Oregon.

The primary reason I work on these relics is because I like to argument and disagreement. But that has proven to fail in cases where some folks use the forum for no purpose other than inciting argument, and disagreeing with anything said, so, I will remove my 80 year old butt to the local bar or get myself a plant to watch, and leave the hobby of preserving history to the “experts”……who are better suited to sit on their couch and attemp to discourage others from spoiling their hobby.

56 minutes ago, Packard enthus. said:

Have you considered the advantages of a new vehicle...in terms of being an easier platform for you to improve?  Are you aware that this particular organization encourages participants to encourage historical accuracy?

 

May I make a respectful suggestion - if you are seriously interested in the AACA and its interest in historical accuracy, wouldn't you be more true to our purpose;  our reason for existence,  to buy a new or un-modified vehicle?

 

Yes, you, as you note, may get more satisfaction from tinkering, than actually using a motor vehicle for  1) the purpose it was designed for....and   2) keeping it historically accurate.    But "gutting" a vehicle and replacing what it was,  with more modern components ...well....can you tell us how you feel that fits in with the purpose for which AACA exists?

 

 

There was a recent change in what qualified a vehicle as being a “antique” and was eligible for inclusion into a AACA forum post.

That change made a car manufactured in 1995 qualified for antique car status, and made it permissible for cars, presently driven as primary vehicles be considered as hobby vehicles.

So much for Jay Leno and his steamers or even Edsel Ford and his innovative changes in a old, and, he felt, stoic line of manufacture so revered and cherished by his father.

I have been admonished by the moderators of this forum because I have a tendency to respond to posts other than those I originated, and I was instructed to limit my comments to those which I had originally posted.

Thus, I did not post this to the thread I have running under the heading of our restorations, rather, I posted it as a new thread under the heading discussion.

The forum is as much about old people as it is about old machines, and there are those whose participation in the hobby is limited to their ability to follow posts on the forum, and offer their responses, which are totally appropriate for maintenance of a one hundred year old car, on this forum.

More simply put, some people are no longer able to actively participate in restoration and, agreeably driving, an antique vehicle. But this doesn’t mean that their infirmary or physical/mental/financial difficulties should be a factor in consideration as to whether or not they should be included into the AACA related activities.

That includes responding to a mundane and totally entry level proposal to convert a (already over discussed) proposal to convert the electrics of a 95 year old zombie truck from one to another (equally electric) format.

See you at the Bingo parlor, or maybe I will be the drunk laying on the floor, that you so irritability trip over as you also frequent the local bar at 80 years of age.

Jack

 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Jack, you are a MESS!! 🤣   I LOVE it! 🤪

 

  Ben  

[Jack Bennett]

1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

  You asked!!  GO FOR IT.   And don't look back.    YOU will never be sorry.  Alternators are a dime a dozen, figuratively speaking.  Wiring that is marginal for 6V is adequate for 12V.   Bulbs cost the same, maybe less in 12V.  Win, win.

 

Ben

I drive my old cars…….mainly, because I can.

But I am not excused from equipping them to comply with safety standards expected of modern day vehicles.

That includes turn signals, brake lights and head lights that you need to light a match to make sure they’re on.

LED’s are concealed in a period correct housing, and 12 volt bulbs can be bought directly from the rack at O’Reilly’s. I can’t say the same for the rapidly disappearing bulbs used in 6 volt fixtures.

I cannot buy a new Autolite, or Prestolite, 6 volt starter. And, even if I did pop the $400.00 dollars a new one would cost, it would be installed in exactly the same manner as the one which destroyed itself because of inadequate clearance between the Fargo floor boards and the lever which must provide adequate clearance between the floor and the lever atop the (manual) starter which moves the bendix and engages the motor.

And, I cannot even marginally expect a new starter, it being identical to the old starter, which destroyed itself, not to do the same shortly after it was improperly (due to the fact the truck originally had a switch activated starter……rather than a foot activated floor mounted stomp button.

I am extremely tired, and have already made up my mind that the Fargo is the last of my old car endeavors. I will monitor the forum though to watch the trials and tribulations the millennials encounter as they attempt to start that old Pinto or get that heavy Vega on the trailer.

Jack

 

Edited July 15 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

 I think, without actually deciding to, I have reached the place you mention in the last paragraph. 

 

  Ben

[Fordy]

Jack, I am with the "you just do it to suit you" crowd, and the naysayers can continue to turn their noses up at the grass roots guys just tinkering with cars for fun and go back to sipping overpriced drinks and comparing the size of their bank accounts at Pebble Beach and so forth.

Steve

[Jack Bennett]

Undeniably….the best non-contententional compliment you can pay another person is to ask for their advice and/or their opinion.

There is absolutely no requirement that you act upon this advise, or even agree with the opinion, but the simple act of asking is worth its weight in gold.

And, thusly, I do offer some off the wall posts to the forum.

If apologies are in order, I offer them also.

Jack

[Rusty_OToole]

This is one of the few cases where I would approve of this conversion. For one thing the truck is already non original, engine and who knows what else. For another it has no complicated electric equipment, just a starter some lights and maybe a horn.

 

Suggest you keep every part you take off just in case you or a future owner want to change it back.

 

Further suggestions. Mounting of alternator. If you look at your alternator, or generator, you should see a mount at 12 o'clock which is the adjustment. And a fixed mount at 8, 6, or 4. Find an alternator that is the same and it will make mounting a lot easier. A spacer made of tubing for the lower mount may be all you need. Be careful to get all the pulleys lined up in the same plane.

 

You are going to need a rebuilt starter.Get one that fits your engine, that is actuated electrically like a car, and have the rebuilder put in 12v field coils. This means having a local rebuilder do the job.

 

For the lights etc you seem to have that figured out. Can you still get a 12v aoogah horn?

 

If you don't like ballast resistors european cars have coils with internal resistors, no external resistor needed. Suggest a Bosch blue coil for VW as being easy to get.

Edited July 15 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

11 minutes ago, Fordy said:

Jack, I am with the "you just do it to suit you" crowd, and the naysayers can continue to turn their noses up at the grass roots guys just tinkering with cars for fun and go back to sipping overpriced drinks and comparing the size of their bank accounts at Pebble Beach and so forth.

Steve

Thanks for your response Fordy.

I know with a reasonable amount of surety of what I need, and will do with the old truck’s electrics.

But, there is a thousand years experience spread among the forum participants, and when working with a nearly century old truck and a 74 year old power train, it is a crying shame to let this amount of knowledge go to waste.

On another forum, more closely devoted to MOPAR vehicles, it was suggested that a resistor be included in the circuitry of the ignition coil.

I am thoroughly familiar with the failure of the little ceramic resistor in the ignition circuit of many MOPAR vehicles, but that did not lessen the appreciation for the reminder that, were it necessary, the failure to include one in the Fargo’s new circuitry my prevent a catastrophic, and very expensive, failure of the entire system.

Will I include a resistor in the electrical circuit of the Fargo……No!…….but I am sure grateful someone had the ability and concerns to tell me I may need one.

Jack

 

[ABear]

2 hours ago, Packard enthus. said:

Have you considered the advantages of a new vehicle...in terms of being an easier platform for you to improve?  Are you aware that this particular organization encourages participants to encourage historical accuracy?

 

May I make a respectful suggestion - if you are seriously interested in the AACA and its interest in historical accuracy, wouldn't you be more true to our purpose;  our reason for existence,  to buy a new or un-modified vehicle?

Talk about a forum jockey puffed up ego Not to mention a snobbish attitude on top for good measure.

 

That stance is what discourages MANY folks from getting into the car repair/collecting hobby..

 

Yes, in an ideal world one would ideal use every single original part down to the original nuts, bolts and volts, but often times when dealing with old and totally obsolete parts some considerations and different non original parts may end up in the basket case soup of the day.

 

Plenty snobbish "Pebble beach" 100% restorations attitudes which the common mortal man simply cannot obtain without sacrificing their firstborn, both arms and legs and even that isn't enough to pay the first down payment installment for the next 30 yrs for one vehicle.

 

You would hate my family car that has been handed down from generation to generation to me, it has zero of the original electrical system left, the original electric motor is gone, replaced by a 1903-1907 gas engine, the steering tiller has been moved/modified. By strict AACA "standards" it is not "judge able", period as there is no "category" it would fit into..

 

But, if it wasn't for those changes early in that cars life, it WOULD HAVE been scrapped during the scrap drives during WW2.. It wouldn't be here now.

 

You should be grateful and thankful for those who have found ways to preserve the majority of the appearances of many vehicles. Judging a electrical system voltage "correctness" is being snobbish..

 

While I generally agree with keeping things as close to original, sometimes one must drift outside the coloring book lines.

 

[Jack Bennett]

5 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

This is one of the few cases where I would approve of this conversion. For one thing the truck is already non original, engine and who knows what else. For another it has no complicated electric equipment, just a starter some lights and maybe a horn.

I have followed your posts, many regarding old Chrysler and Dodge Brother’s vehicles, made since 2020, and your advice is valued as solid gold.

I forgot to mention the horn, and I have included a newly rebuilt 6 volt klaxon to the Fargo rebuild.

The voltage change was a major concern so I called one of the well known antique vehicle restoration people and have been assured that, so long as I limit the horns use to short blasts, this should not be a problem.

However, I do honor your input, and, accordingly, have done up a second klaxon horn as a replacement for the first should it burn up.

Surprisingly, had there been on on the truck, the horn relay would have certainty been a concern.

And to anyone familiar with the manner the wiring for the headlights and horn button on this truck is routed, and switched through the steering column, a major concern would have to be regarding the ability of the switch to handle a 12 volt load without eventual failure.

Thanks again for your input, and the preceding statement proves that no amount of experience trumps the need for a bit of information from a person not directly involved in the task at hand.

Jack

[ABear]

5 minutes ago, Jack Bennett said:

And to anyone familiar with the manner the wiring for the headlights and horn button on this truck is routed, and switched through the steering column, a major concern would have to be regarding the ability of the switch to handle a 12 volt load without eventual failure.

Not familiar with your vehicles wiring but if you use 12V accessories with a 12V system like light bulbs the switches and wiring will be fine. 12V items designed for 12V will draw less current meaning the switch contacts and wiring will actually have a longer life since they will be handling half the current.

 

6V items like your horn and 6V relays on the other hand will draw more current and hence the caution of limiting the time you use them to very short bursts and then let them rest a bit longer between the bursts.

 

You also can use a switching DC-DC power converter (called a "buck" converter) to reduce the voltage for the few 6V items you want to retain. This would allow you to safely operate a 6V horn from a 12V system, just need to check how many amps the horn draws and buy one with enough amperage capacity.

 

Here is one that handles a 25A 6V load for $25

 

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Converter-Regulator-Waterproof-Transformer/dp/B01CUA4IR8/ref=sr_1_10?crid=2MNR0XHVS2QDL&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ljYTv1ZKEFxh00g84a8D0TRikBJNPOV_svK4OIEZVT6aS5iI4kEvjxw_imjVgwReVL5uyNk4uubqWEjkJjPyHdiGUf8cqp8Dp0rh9W7ixBROzh2UOmiYtsdQmY55lbgZyDiFKz8aYIYCfD32ZJgmnhohlmLKAV5SzBK5DLL0FE51rgaGSAeW-wtXuPyfxzBsnZZzAOUqL1QNNd2HcEoFeFuMkEtCzNCrgCSgQtgBRZ4.F25abC-c-Ui7rGj6rsPv-jF2y8VbIRpbldWOwfNB1iU&dib_tag=se&keywords=12v+to+6+v+converter&qid=1721071486&sprefix=12v+to+6+v+converter%2Caps%2C84&sr=8-10

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

For the horn, suggest you add a resistor to reduce voltage to 6 or run it off a center tap from the battery. It may work on 12 but will really scream.

 

Also the wiring will be heavy enough for 12 v but if the insulation is at all iffy, cracked, or falling off it will short out worse on 12v. If it still has the original 1929 wiring, suggest you rewire first.

 

Later... if you have 2, 6v klaxon horns and you wire them in series each will get 6 volts even though they are connected to 12 volts. In other words, put both horns on the truck.

Edited July 15 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

3 minutes ago, ABear said:

Talk about a forum jockey puffed up ego Not to mention a snobbish attitude on top for good measure.

 

That stance is what discourages MANY folks from getting into the car repair/collecting hobby..

 

Yes, in an ideal world one would ideal use every single original part down to the original nuts, bolts and volts, but often times when dealing with old and totally obsolete parts some considerations and different non original parts may end up in the basket case soup of the day.

 

Plenty snobbish "Pebble beach" 100% restorations attitudes which the common mortal man simply cannot obtain without sacrificing their firstborn, both arms and legs and even that isn't enough to pay the first down payment installment for the next 30 yrs for one vehicle.

 

You would hate my family car that has been handed down from generation to generation to me, it has zero of the original electrical system left, the original electric motor is gone, replaced by a 1903-1907 gas engine, the steering tiller has been moved/modified. By strict AACA "standards" it is not "judge able", period as there is no "category" it would fit into..

 

But, if it wasn't for those changes early in that cars life, it WOULD HAVE been scrapped during the scrap drives during WW2.. It wouldn't be here now.

 

You should be grateful and thankful for those who have found ways to preserve the majority of the appearances of many vehicles. Judging a electrical system voltage "correctness" is being snobbish..

 

While I generally agree with keeping things as close to original, sometimes one must drift outside the coloring book lines.

 

Thanks for your very much appreciated comment ABear.

Not to boast or give the appearance of having a peacock self image, I will say I am very comfortably retired, and my involvement in the old car arena is 100% for my own self indulgence and entertainment.

Had the thread I post to regarding my progress on reanimation of the Fargo been read, it would have been noted that I have absolutely no desire to “restore” the truck to a showroom condition.

At the minute I am more concerned with preventing nature from erasing any ability I will have to work with it, rather than “restore a truck used to haul truck parts when it was new.

I have made no secret of the fact that I intend on preserving the truck for the day when someone who has never seen a Fargo Express panel delivery truck says…”Can I touch it”?…..”Can I sit in it”?…….”Can I have a ride in it”?…..and I can say “yep” to everything.

Very probably there will be purists who spray their wine through their upturned noses when I remind them that I have used brushes and tractor paint to coat the Fargo and much of the wood, metal, screws and upholstery material comes from cast of couches and a old recliner chair.

And, it gives me a warm and comfortable feeling to know that I still have the ability to reuse cast off’s for this purpose, and enjoy the feel of the truck when I know I am it’s daddy😄.

Jack

 

[Jack Bennett]

15 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

For the horn, suggest you add a resistor to reduce voltage to 6 or run it off a center tap from the battery. It may work on 12 but will really scream.

 

Also the wiring will be heavy enough for 12 v but if the insulation is at all iffy, cracked, or falling off it will short out worse on 12v. If it still has the original 1929 wiring, suggest you rewire first.

Unlike the 1951 Plymouth Cambridge I worked on a few months ago, the wiring in the Fargo is the epitome of simplicity.

I like the idea of using the resistor on the horn, and the increase in the speed of its motor has not been overlooked.

The original wiring harness, presently pretty well mangled due to dismemberment of the truck for body work, is all cloth, and is cased in a cloth tube, rather than conduit or tape.

As time permits I intend on finding a light weight fire hose to use as material, using my upholstery sewing machine to craft it into tubes, and placing new wiring inside the canvas tubes prior to connecting it into a circuit. 
I think I can use a more modern, electrically switched starter with the 218ci flathead, and a one wire, 12 volt alternator to do the conversion.

Any suggestions here?

Jack

[Fordy]

1 hour ago, Jack Bennett said:

involvement in the old car arena is 100% for my own self indulgence and entertainment.

Very Loud applause.!!!

It is the only reason why anyone should be playing with old cars. Not for pumping up egos or buying trophies with outlandish expenditure. As for concourse points, I believe the expression that best fits in my perspective is "bite me" - checking boxes on paper to meet someone else's ideals is definitely not for many of us involved in the hobby.

Steve

[Jack Bennett]

34 minutes ago, Fordy said:

Very Loud applause.!!!

It is the only reason why anyone should be playing with old cars. Not for pumping up egos or buying trophies with outlandish expenditure. As for concourse points, I believe the expression that best fits in my perspective is "bite me" - checking boxes on paper to meet someone else's ideals is definitely not for many of us involved in the hobby.

Steve

Most probably, these two photos say more about the reason I play with rusty metal rather than broken wine bottles.

Contemplation is taking a relook at what you have done in regards to what you are doing and how it will affect what you need to do.

Imagine, if you can, how the folks who depended on this truck to cloth, feed, educate, medicate and provide recreation for their families, maybe 90 years ago feel when the sun starts sinking and the days work on their truck becomes obvious.

Can I share this feeling……..you’d better bet I can.

Jack

 

[Jack Bennett]

3 hours ago, ABear said:

Not familiar with your vehicles wiring but if you use 12V accessories with a 12V system like light bulbs the switches and wiring will be fine. 12V items designed for 12V will draw less current meaning the switch contacts and wiring will actually have a longer life since they will be handling half the current.

 

6V items like your horn and 6V relays on the other hand will draw more current and hence the caution of limiting the time you use them to very short bursts and then let them rest a bit longer between the bursts.

 

You also can use a switching DC-DC power converter (called a "buck" converter) to reduce the voltage for the few 6V items you want to retain. This would allow you to safely operate a 6V horn from a 12V system, just need to check how many amps the horn draws and buy one with enough amperage capacity.

 

Here is one that handles a 25A 6V load for $25

 

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Converter-Regulator-Waterproof-Transformer/dp/B01CUA4IR8/ref=sr_1_10?crid=2MNR0XHVS2QDL&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ljYTv1ZKEFxh00g84a8D0TRikBJNPOV_svK4OIEZVT6aS5iI4kEvjxw_imjVgwReVL5uyNk4uubqWEjkJjPyHdiGUf8cqp8Dp0rh9W7ixBROzh2UOmiYtsdQmY55lbgZyDiFKz8aYIYCfD32ZJgmnhohlmLKAV5SzBK5DLL0FE51rgaGSAeW-wtXuPyfxzBsnZZzAOUqL1QNNd2HcEoFeFuMkEtCzNCrgCSgQtgBRZ4.F25abC-c-Ui7rGj6rsPv-jF2y8VbIRpbldWOwfNB1iU&dib_tag=se&keywords=12v+to+6+v+converter&qid=1721071486&sprefix=12v+to+6+v+converter%2Caps%2C84&sr=8-10

 

 

I believe you just smoothed a bump in my Fargo road in a manner I never even considered.

I added a modern set of gauges, being amp, oil pressure and temperature to monitor the engine as I installed it.

While the truck has only a rudimentary electrical system, it still has the dash panel instruments I have looked forward to using after I finish the reconstruction of the cab.

The oil pressure gauge is mechanical, so electrics are no problem.

But, the fuel tank level and amp meter are electrical, and I am concerned about throwing 12 volts to their tired innards.

This little gizmo would solve that dilemma for a reasonable cost and with nearly no effort.

I have bookmarked the page and will order one in the next few days.

Thanks again!

Jack

 

[kramaton]

35 minutes ago, Jack Bennett said:

I believe you just smoothed a bump in my Fargo road in a manner I never even considered.

I added a modern set of gauges, being amp, oil pressure and temperature to monitor the engine as I installed it.

While the truck has only a rudimentary electrical system, it still has the dash panel instruments I have looked forward to using after I finish the reconstruction of the cab.

The oil pressure gauge is mechanical, so electrics are no problem.

But, the fuel tank level and amp meter are electrical, and I am concerned about throwing 12 volts to their tired innards.

This little gizmo would solve that dilemma for a reasonable cost and with nearly no effort.

I have bookmarked the page and will order one in the next few days.

Thanks again!

Jack

 

I like it. 

[Packard enthus.]

UPGRADES:   

I see a bit of anger and passion in some of the responses in here - apparently, a good number of the posters like the idea of modifying old cars;  believe those of us who like the focus/purpose of the AACA and similar clubs are a bunch of rich,  trophy-seeking Pebble Beach goer snobs..

 

I believe those assumptions are in error.   My understanding is most AACA & CCCA members are ordinary mid-income folks, who joined the above organizations because we agree with their focus.

 

I personally have been attending various old car events since I started driving (with a learner's permit) in mid 1955.  At such events, I am frequently impressed, sometimes overwhelmed with the outstanding workmanship on some of the "modified" cars I have seen.   

 

May I respectfully suggest those of you who favor modifications, ask themselves whether you are familiar with, and if so, do you agree with the purpose of this particular organization?

 

May I suggest those of you who have access to AACA publications, read carefully the article 'UPGRADED"  by WEST PETERSON on Page 8 of the May/June '23 issue of ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE?   

 

Yes, of course it is nicer,  more comfortable, healthier to ride around in an air-conditioned, power steering equipped vehicle of the post-war era (well - let me qualify that about eras....my '41 Cadillac could be ordered with "factory air", a high-speed rear axle ratio and four speed (effectively that "top" gear was, at least from a numerical standpoint, an overdrive.   Cruises comfortably  at 80 MPH plus, with no overheating thanks to a pressurized cooling system).  Sure more pleasant on a hot, humid day than driving around in my '38 Packard Twelve.. (which, incidentally, starts instantly hot or cold, thanks to its PROPERLY MAINTAINED  "bone stock" 6 volt electrical system.!). (headlights work well too !)

 

Which reminds me.... I get a big "kick" out of people who call my cars "antique"....to me...an "antique" car is one with ANTIQUE features...meaning hi pressure tires, no brakes on front wheels,  accetelyne gas lighting, "progressive" / "sliding gear" style transmissions...

 

So why not "gut" and throw away the old car you like- saving the exterior sheet metal & mount that on modern components? 

 

Don't blame me - I did not write the guidelines/purpose of this particular Club.  The AACA's purpose and objectives were set up long before I arrived on the old car scene.

 

May I respectfully suggest that after reading WEST'S outstanding articles,  you ask yourselves whether you "up-grade types" are participating in the correct organization for your needs?

 

 

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

3 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

Unlike the 1951 Plymouth Cambridge I worked on a few months ago, the wiring in the Fargo is the epitome of simplicity.

I like the idea of using the resistor on the horn, and the increase in the speed of its motor has not been overlooked.

The original wiring harness, presently pretty well mangled due to dismemberment of the truck for body work, is all cloth, and is cased in a cloth tube, rather than conduit or tape.

As time permits I intend on finding a light weight fire hose to use as material, using my upholstery sewing machine to craft it into tubes, and placing new wiring inside the canvas tubes prior to connecting it into a circuit. 
I think I can use a more modern, electrically switched starter with the 218ci flathead, and a one wire, 12 volt alternator to do the conversion.

Any suggestions here?

Jack

Only that I am not crazy about the 1 wire alternator. They were an adaptation of the GM Delcotron for bulldozers, tractors etc. also known as a self exciting alternator. About the only real drawback is sometimes you have to rev up the engine to get them to kick in. I don't mind the standard alt, it only has 2 more wires.

[Grimy]

@Packard enthus. please lighten up on your daily airing of your superiority complex.  Had you paid attention over the past year or so, you would know that @Jack Bennett rescued his Fargo from a certain scrapyard fate, and I believe he will be the first to acknowledge that it was beyond "restoration" in the usual meaning of the word.  He continues his Herculean attempts to make the vehicle (1) functional and (2) less crusty looking.  He clearly enjoys the problem solving and achievement-in-small-bites.  This is in the fine tradition of Depression and World War II saving of resources, and he is a model to us all (well, clearly not you).

 

P.S.  Your Cadillac Hydramatic has a 1:1 final drive ratio so it is not "effectively...an overdrive."  Despite your protestations that Authenticity Must Be Obeyed, you apparently like SOME modifications because your Packard 12 does not have its factory 4.69 gears--and someone has said you have an Oldsmobile differential in that Packard.  Care to comment on that from your perspective that All Modifications Are Anathema?

[Jack Bennett]

28 minutes ago, Packard enthus. said:

 

 

So why not "gut" and throw away the old car you like- saving the exterior sheet metal & mount that on modern components? 

 

Don't blame me - I did not write the guidelines/purpose of this particular Club.  The AACA's purpose and objectives were set up long before I arrived on the old car scene.

 

May I respectfully suggest that after reading WEST'S outstanding articles,  you ask yourselves whether you "up-grade types" are participating in the correct organization for your needs?

 

 

 

 

 

I have paused my brain, and shut out all superfluous thoughts which may interfere with logical thinking, in order to closely examine what it is you’re saying, but to save my soul, I am still without a clue.

Discussing religion or politics on the forum is banned because they tend to eventually drift toward contention, disagreement, and all too often, reveal that a person is obsessed, rather than recreationally involved.

I have no choice but to replace a foot activated starter with a push button starter because the foot activated starter, which is not original to the truck presents a safety hazard to operation of the truck as well as mandates the replacement of a bastard part with another bastard part.

You appear to be a wizard of old car magic, so you should be providing ways I can replace a obsolete, and excessively expensive, yet still a 74 year old starter with another 74 year old starter, which is equally unsafe, as bastardized as the starter I am trying to replace, and equally

as prone to failure as the 74 year old starter it is intended to replace.

Thanks for participating in the forum, and be assured your helpful input is appreciated.

I just hope you need some help one day and instead you are reminded of what a fool you are for messing with a heap of metal the elites have abandoned as a worthless cause 47 years ago.

Here is what I was looking for, and here is the purpose of me appealing to the members of the forum.

I simply asked for a hand-up, and not a foot-up, and it really isn’t welcome in the nether region area to which you aimed it.

[Jack Bennett]

22 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Only that I am not crazy about the 1 wire alternator. They were an adaptation of the GM Delcotron for bulldozers, tractors etc. also known as a self exciting alternator. About the only real drawback is sometimes you have to rev up the engine to get them to kick in. I don't mind the standard alt, it only has 2 more wires.

I tried to connect a voltage regulator to the generator which was on the 1950 engine I just installed and the generator burned up.

I now have the generator, with the cut-out relay, which was on the original 1929 engine, but now the starter burned up.

I converted my 1947 Ford 8N tractor from 6 volts, positive ground, to 12 volts negative ground, and used a single wire alternator in the process which worked great.

I realize this isn’t a tractor, and you have touched on the reason I posted such a tired and mundane thing as a voltage conversion on the forum.

I had no problem with the 6 volt system n the tractor either, but I sure had problems finding a front mount, 6 volt coil for it when the original failed.

In my post to the forum I mentioned the single wire because it eliminates both the cut-out relay and the voltage regulator when making the conversion.

Any help with a alternate method is appreciated.

Jack

[ABear]

1 hour ago, Packard enthus. said:

UPGRADES:   

I see a bit of anger and passion in some of the responses in here - apparently, a good number of the posters like the idea of modifying old cars;  believe those of us who like the focus/purpose of the AACA and similar clubs are a bunch of rich,  trophy-seeking Pebble Beach goer snobs..

I don't call making something that wasn't working that has been brought back to working by whatever means possible is called an "upgrade"

 

I call that a WIN.

 

No matter what "voltage" one picks to make that happen doesn't really matter. What matters is it is able to move under it's own power once again.

 

I will also point out a blatant issue with being so "correct" in your rules, you do realize that unless you have and are using the factory battery that the vehicle was equipped with you HAVE "upgraded" your own vehicles electrical system. In other words, you HAVE "modified" your vehicles electrical system and is no longer "original". You have aftermarket batteries, not original.

 

To put this a bit further, I am sure you have "upgraded" your tires on all of your vehicles.. I highly doubt you have the original tires on your vehicles.. You have aftermarket tires and not originals.

 

By applying your original parts rules evenly to not only other folks vehicles but your own vehicles your vehicles no longer "qualify" as "original" and therefore are disqualified and should be banned from all shows..

[Rusty_OToole]

1 hour ago, Jack Bennett said:

I tried to connect a voltage regulator to the generator which was on the 1950 engine I just installed and the generator burned up.

I now have the generator, with the cut-out relay, which was on the original 1929 engine, but now the starter burned up.

I converted my 1947 Ford 8N tractor from 6 volts, positive ground, to 12 volts negative ground, and used a single wire alternator in the process which worked great.

I realize this isn’t a tractor, and you have touched on the reason I posted such a tired and mundane thing as a voltage conversion on the forum.

I had no problem with the 6 volt system n the tractor either, but I sure had problems finding a front mount, 6 volt coil for it when the original failed.

In my post to the forum I mentioned the single wire because it eliminates both the cut-out relay and the voltage regulator when making the conversion.

Any help with a alternate method is appreciated.

Jack

The cut out and regulator are built into the alternator, doesn't matter if it is 1 wire or 3 wire. The other wires on the standard alt are for 12 volts from the ignition switch and the alternator light on the dash. The 12v from the key tells the alt when the car is turned on, and when the alt should be turned on. If the alt was "live" all the time it would slowly discharge the battery when not in use.

 

The 1 wire is "self exciting" that means when it starts to spin it makes enough juice to turn itself on - usually. Occasionally you may need to gun the engine to get it to kick in.

 

This refers to the popular GM  Delcotron used on so many hot rods. Not to mention millions of GM cars from 1964 to the mid 80s. If you choose a different alternator just get the regulator with it (if it has one) and wire it according to the factory wiring diagram.

Edited July 16 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

2 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Only that I am not crazy about the 1 wire alternator. They were an adaptation of the GM Delcotron for bulldozers, tractors etc. also known as a self exciting alternator. About the only real drawback is sometimes you have to rev up the engine to get them to kick in. I don't mind the standard alt, it only has 2 more wires.

Keeping in mind that the only relationship the color of the truck (green) will ever have with money is in a negative sense.

I am shopping for a kit with the alternator, coil and starter to convert the truck to a 12 volt system, but I have little hopes of ever finding one.

The starter compatibility chart has helped a lot in finding a 12 volt, key start, starter to replace the foot stomp, 6 volt starter, but I am puzzling over a alternator which will fit the flathead six cylinder, Dodge mounts.

Remind me, since most alternators already has a built in voltage regulator, where the other two wires are terminated.

Jack

 

 

 

Edited July 16 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

11 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

The cut out and regulator are built into the alternator, doesn't matter if it is 1 wire or 3 wire. The other wires on the standard alt are for 12 volts from the ignition switch and the alternator light on the dash. The 12v from the key tells the alt when the car is turned on, and when the alt should be turned on. If the alt was "live" all the time it would slowly discharge the battery when not in use.

 

The 1 wire is "self exciting" that means when it starts to spin it makes enough juice to turn itself on - usually. Occasionally you may need to gun the engine to get it to kick in.

 

This refers to the popular GM 35 amp alternator used on so many hot rods. If you choose a different alternator just get the regulator with it (if it has one) and wire it according to the factory wiring diagram.

To the best of my knowledge the new voltage regulator I just bought to use with the generator is still good.

Of course, I will test it before I put it into a circuit again, but, if it is still good, can I use it with a alternator?

Granted, it didn’t cost a king’s ransom, but Pennie’s mount up fast, and very quickly become dollars when they are wasted.

Jack

[Rusty_OToole]

The regulator is made to work with a specific generator or alternator, will not work with an alternator, but you probably won't need one as all alternators for the last 40 years have internal regulators.

 

Did you check the clocking of the mounts as I suggested in my first post? Will the popular GM alternator fit?

 

Summit has this 1 wire for $118.99 should do everything you want and more. Not a recommendation, I found it on a quick web search, you can probably buy one at your local auto parts store. Get the cheapest, lowest amperage they have, it will still be more than you will ever need.

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-811001

Edited July 16 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

I apologize for whatever I have said which seems to have incited some angst among forum members.

I can only imagine explain that the Fargo has not been rat rodded or modified in any way which would make it stand out in a crowd of other similarly equipped Fargo trucks.

My choices, after I had paid for the truck and hauled it up from Oregon, was to either completely rebuild a engine which sat for forty seven years with no spark plugs, irreversibly pitted cylinder bores, completely unknown condition of the engine internal parts, determine its nomenclature and try to purchase a clutch, transmission, drive shaft, emergency brake and all engine accessories which were later found to be destroyed by age and normal deterioration.

All wood on the framework and cab of the truck was rotted, missing or had been stripped for earlier sale.

The metal of the truck body was a bit of scraps held together by air, and there is nothing strong enough to hold a weld.

The steering wheel was irreparable and the steering gear box was locked in the left turn position.

There was a small portion of the roof slats left. Albeit they were broken, rotted, unusable and the vinyl covering of the roof had disappeared years ago. The wheels were locked, the brake cylinders were frozen and the master cylinder was missing, along with the seats and floor boards.

The tires were missing and I used 18” motorcycle tires to get the truck on and off the trailer. The two tires had been destroyed years before, and the truck dragged with the rims on the ground. The other two tires were missing and the truck had sat on the rim for at least 4 decades.

The truck was disassembled and the body work was done to the extent that the rust would be prevented from total destruction of the part, and the only differences between the original engine and the one which replaced it are so minor that the average person couldn’t tell the differance if viewing the engine from a few feet distance.

Other than that the t appearance of the truck is unchanged from its original appearance.

I do not want to waste a new alternator and starter by making a ignorant mistake in their installation, and I cannot see where ther is any problem with replacing a starter which wasn’t originally intended for use with the engine with one which was. Granted, a new starter, even though it fits the mounts of the original engine, is of the same activation characteristics, and was not made from parts manufactured in 1929. But, even a rebuilt starter, of the same type presently on the engine contains parts made more recently than 1929.

It is terribly difficult being 80 years old, and it is more difficult when even a hobby becomes a source of toxicity.

At separate times, and individually, I may be able to gracefully handle either in turn. But at the minute I am getting a craw full of ignorant BS, and will probably delete this thread in a few minutes.

Jack

 

[Jack Bennett]

34 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

The regulator is made to work with a specific generator or alternator, will not work with an alternator, but you probably won't need one as all alternators for the last 40 years have internal regulators.

 

Did you check the clocking of the mounts as I suggested in my first post? Will the popular GM alternator fit?

 

Summit has this 1 wire for $118.99 should do everything you want and more. Not a recommendation, I found it on a quick web search, you can probably buy one at your local auto parts store. Get the cheapest, lowest amperage they have, it will still be more than you will ever need.

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-811001

I bought the one wire alternator I used on the tractor from Summit Racing, and it was a real quick fix.

I have no intentions of ever making the truck a long haul source of transportation or entertainment. Accordingly, as with the wood work and body/fender repairs, my intentions right now are to finish up the mechanics and body work to the extent that the bad weather we can expect by October doesn’t destroy whatever I can do outside.

I can always replace any part, mechanical or body, at any time later so long as I can move the truck under cover and out of the weather. 
I keep my other antique cars in drivable condition and the only decisions I need make prior to a weekend drive is which car to drive, and where I will drive it to.

Thanks for your responses, your input is appreciated.

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

3 hours ago, Packard enthus. said:

UPGRADES:   

I see a bit of anger and passion in some of the responses in here - apparently, a good number of the posters like the idea of modifying old cars;  believe those of us who like the focus/purpose of the AACA and similar clubs are a bunch of rich,  trophy-seeking Pebble Beach goer snobs..

 

I believe those assumptions are in error.   My understanding is most AACA & CCCA members are ordinary mid-income folks, who joined the above organizations because we agree with their focus.

 

I personally have been attending various old car events since I started driving (with a learner's permit) in mid 1955.  At such events, I am frequently impressed, sometimes overwhelmed with the outstanding workmanship on some of the "modified" cars I have seen.   

 

May I respectfully suggest those of you who favor modifications, ask themselves whether you are familiar with, and if so, do you agree with the purpose of this particular organization?

 

May I suggest those of you who have access to AACA publications, read carefully the article 'UPGRADED"  by WEST PETERSON on Page 8 of the May/June '23 issue of ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE?   

 

Yes, of course it is nicer,  more comfortable, healthier to ride around in an air-conditioned, power steering equipped vehicle of the post-war era (well - let me qualify that about eras....my '41 Cadillac could be ordered with "factory air", a high-speed rear axle ratio and four speed (effectively that "top" gear was, at least from a numerical standpoint, an overdrive.   Cruises comfortably  at 80 MPH plus, with no overheating thanks to a pressurized cooling system).  Sure more pleasant on a hot, humid day than driving around in my '38 Packard Twelve.. (which, incidentally, starts instantly hot or cold, thanks to its PROPERLY MAINTAINED  "bone stock" 6 volt electrical system.!). (headlights work well too !)

 

Which reminds me.... I get a big "kick" out of people who call my cars "antique"....to me...an "antique" car is one with ANTIQUE features...meaning hi pressure tires, no brakes on front wheels,  accetelyne gas lighting, "progressive" / "sliding gear" style transmissions...

 

So why not "gut" and throw away the old car you like- saving the exterior sheet metal & mount that on modern components? 

 

Don't blame me - I did not write the guidelines/purpose of this particular Club.  The AACA's purpose and objectives were set up long before I arrived on the old car scene.

 

May I respectfully suggest that after reading WEST'S outstanding articles,  you ask yourselves whether you "up-grade types" are participating in the correct organization for your needs?

 

 

 

 

My “modified” 1929 Fargo Express Panel delivery.

Pay special attention to the power disc brakes, super charged 440 hemi and the plush (real camel skin) upholstery.

My bad….the guys from Iraq seems to have repossessed their camel skin upholstery, and the windows will remain blacked out until I can go to Cleveland and kill a tiger or zebra.

Jack

[37_Roadmaster_C]

@Jack Bennett,  That rig looks GREAT. Do what YOU want and enjoy your ride!  I just don't know about those WW tires.....they seem to clash with the green spokes..... kidding 😇.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

7 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

I apologize for whatever I have said which seems to have incited some angst among forum members.

I can only imagine explain that the Fargo has not been rat rodded or modified in any way which would make it stand out in a crowd of other similarly equipped Fargo trucks.

My choices, after I had paid for the truck and hauled it up from Oregon, was to either completely rebuild a engine which sat for forty seven years with no spark plugs, irreversibly pitted cylinder bores, completely unknown condition of the engine internal parts, determine its nomenclature and try to purchase a clutch, transmission, drive shaft, emergency brake and all engine accessories which were later found to be destroyed by age and normal deterioration.

All wood on the framework and cab of the truck was rotted, missing or had been stripped for earlier sale.

The metal of the truck body was a bit of scraps held together by air, and there is nothing strong enough to hold a weld.

The steering wheel was irreparable and the steering gear box was locked in the left turn position.

There was a small portion of the roof slats left. Albeit they were broken, rotted, unusable and the vinyl covering of the roof had disappeared years ago. The wheels were locked, the brake cylinders were frozen and the master cylinder was missing, along with the seats and floor boards.

The tires were missing and I used 18” motorcycle tires to get the truck on and off the trailer. The two tires had been destroyed years before, and the truck dragged with the rims on the ground. The other two tires were missing and the truck had sat on the rim for at least 4 decades.

The truck was disassembled and the body work was done to the extent that the rust would be prevented from total destruction of the part, and the only differences between the original engine and the one which replaced it are so minor that the average person couldn’t tell the differance if viewing the engine from a few feet distance.

Other than that the t appearance of the truck is unchanged from its original appearance.

I do not want to waste a new alternator and starter by making a ignorant mistake in their installation, and I cannot see where ther is any problem with replacing a starter which wasn’t originally intended for use with the engine with one which was. Granted, a new starter, even though it fits the mounts of the original engine, is of the same activation characteristics, and was not made from parts manufactured in 1929. But, even a rebuilt starter, of the same type presently on the engine contains parts made more recently than 1929.

It is terribly difficult being 80 years old, and it is more difficult when even a hobby becomes a source of toxicity.

At separate times, and individually, I may be able to gracefully handle either in turn. But at the minute I am getting a craw full of ignorant BS, and will probably delete this thread in a few minutes.

Jack

 

 

 Just carry on, Jack.  

  You are doing a great job.  

 

  Ben

[31nash880]

Keep going Jack.

We love you!