Need help with brand of vehicle in old postcard

[machocraine]

I realize this old picture postcard is far from ideal quality-wise, but I am trying to determine the make of the vehicles shown. The story I have been told is that the postcard is ca. 1910 and is from a small KY town and that the advertisement read "I now have fifteen cars on the floor and invite you to come in and inspect the display". The local Historical Society gives the dealers name and claims it was his Ford Garage. I know for a fact, based on newspaper ads from that same town, that the same gentleman had a Chevrolet Garage (dealership) in the same location and building. His Chevrolet ads started appearing in the local paper in 1926. I also know there was in the early to mid 1920's definitely a Ford dealership in that town, but under a different owner. I suppose I'm wondering if the same gentleman might have had a Ford dealership at one time, and Chevrolet dealership at another, or if someone through the years has tagged the postcard incorrectly. Long story short, a positive ID on the vehicle pictured might help solve the mystery.

[JFranklin]

Looks like a Ford.

[Larry Schramm]

Agree on Ford

[Mark Wetherbee]

1915 or 16 T Ford, the firewall to hood section is unique to those two years.

[machocraine]

Thank you all for your help!

 

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Radiator looks black. That would make it a 16

[Terry Bond]

1916 was the last year the radiator was still all brass.  The painted steel radiator shell was introduced with the 1917 Models.  Hard to tell from the photo provided but the headlamps and sidelamps seem to be lighted from an outside source, perhaps a showroom window on a sunny day.  The cars seem to be in a dealer's showroom.  I've enlarged the photo but can't really determine if there is brass trim on the lamps, which would certainly make it 1915.  The radiator is the early type as used on the pre-1917 cars and not the black painted steel shell as used on later cars.  Not sure we can do much better than 1915 or 16 on the dating without better detail.   If the postcard was promoting a Ford dealership, perhaps they intentionally "fuzzed" it a bit so they could use it for several years.  

Terry

 

 

Edited February 7 by Terry Bond (see edit history)

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I thought the brass was only in early 16 and they went to black at some point. They used to have a lot of 16s with brass rads but they weren't correct but they're worth more. you could tell by the 50-50 or 60-40 windshield

[wayne sheldon]

6 hours ago, Dave Mellor NJ said:

I thought the brass was only in early 16 and they went to black at some point. They used to have a lot of 16s with brass rads but they weren't correct but they're worth more. you could tell by the 50-50 or 60-40 windshield

 

A common misconception that persists to this day caused by faulty memories that were relied on in the early days of this hobby. Much of what was "believed" in the 1950s well into the 1970s was incorrect. Serious research didn't begin until the late 1960s. Numerous books and various guides were published before then that contained a great many errors. Serious researchers (including myself!) are still debating on many details and the timelines surrounding them. Hundreds of researchers (I wish included me?) have spent thousands of hours searching through Ford's archives! They have found mountains of important information! Unfortunately, even those records are sometimes wrong.

There are records of changes that have never happened, dated records that for whatever reason were written either before (planning stages) they happened, or "corrected" later and the dates given are wrong. There are also many things that were planned on, written into sales literature but then production delays of some sort would prevent them from happening (like wire wheels being standard equipment on 1926/'27 sedans!).

Ford, like most automakers, usually made a model year change about August to October of most years bringing out the next year's model. However, production delays had the 1915 open cars not going into real production until January of 1915! I generally refuse to debate the "model year" of model Ts built between August and December as too many people are passionately crazy one way or another!

Fact is, that there are at least FOUR different years to be considered. "Model" year, "calendar" year, "style" year, and "fiscal" year. Each of those varies from one year to the next, and for about a third of all model Ts ever built, more than one of those "years" may apply. And there is in fact, a fifth "year" that may apply? The year the car was first sold. And a sixth year, the year given on its registration? Shall we continue?

 

Ford in the early days was so busy building a brave new world that they never made really clean changes from one year to the next. Six months after the 1914 "model" year ended, Ford was still build 1914 "style" open cars! For about four months (part of December 1914 till nearly the end of April 1915, Ford was building both 1914 style and 1915 style open cars in the same factories!

Arguably, the 1915 "model" year was replaced by the 1916 "model" year somewhere around October of 1915. Although, running changes of numerous details had been made during the entire year! Changes continued to be made through some of the 1916 model year. The change to the 1917 model year was a bit cleaner. While there was some crossover while both styles were being built, that particular crossover time was fairly short (in the Fall of 1916 where it basically belonged).

The slightly taller painted black shell covered radiator that defined the 1917 model year came and stayed without much trouble. From a practical standpoint, if it was from that timeframe, and it had the earlier style brass radiator? It was a 1916 "model". If it had the new stylish taller black painted radiator shell? It was and is a 1917 "model".

 

The folding windshield was mentioned. THAT change actually occurred in stages during the 1917 model year! Early 1917s can often be spotted in era photographs because they had the 1915/'16 style windshield with the even folding hinges! If the photo detail is good enough? One can sometimes make out the mounting brackets. The 1915/'16 windshield brackets were riveted onto the frame and bolted onto the cowl. The first few months of 1917 MODEL/STYLE cars, mostly built in late CALENDAR 1916 and into January of 1917 had the same windshield, brackets, and mountings as the 1915s and 1916s. Somewhere early in CALENDAR 1917, the mounting brackets were changed, and they were held to the windshield frame by two round head slotted screws instead of two rivets! However for another month or more, the hinges were still even folding! Then the hinges were changed so that the hinge pin was held higher above the lower glass causing the offset folding windshield frame which continued through "model" year 1922 on USA built open cars. Canadian built model Ts had a major windshield change about 1920 making them different than the USA built Ts, Canadian built Ts had slanted windshields with two folding panes instead of one, as well as one-man tops beginning about 1920. The uneven folding windshield gave somewhat better ventilation in warmer weather as well as affording a bit more protection for the driver and passengers  when the windshield was folded back.

 

A whole book could be written about the string of changes in Model Ts through the "model" years 1914 through 1917!

Edited February 7 by wayne sheldon (see edit history)