vintage car exhibition and parts sale in France

[sebastienbuick]

20 hours ago, paulrhd29nz said:

Boy oh boy , seeing first pic with the 504. Does that bring back memories. 
my dad was big on French cars. Had them all and lots of them. He convinced my grandma to buy a new 504 in 78-79 or so. 
luxury to the 9th degree inside the cabin but, what a dog to drive. It’s by far the most gutless thing I’ve ever driven. 
GREAT PHOTO’s and thank you for sharing. 
PS, didn’t see any R17 Gordini’s in your pics. I got my first speeding ticket at 16yrs old in one of those. Amazingly fast car for the era. 
thanks again. Good memories of dads French car phase. 
 

 

Thank you, I'm glad it brings back memories for you .  
Peugeot 504s are beautiful cars, and in the early 1970s (1974) it was available in 4 Cylinder and V6.
A friend who has a Renault Alpine GTA Le Mans also has two Peugeot 504s. A Peugeot 504 convertible V6 in orange color (rare original color) and a Peugeot 504 coupe (two-door) V6 in green color.
At this car show there was no R17 Gordini, but at another show there are often two yellow R17 Gordinis, one is original and the second has a body kit.
Yes, they were sports cars !
Were there many R17s on the road ?  

[sebastienbuick]

19 hours ago, Leif in Calif said:

I've had the opportunity to attend a a few events in Europe and I really recommend it! So fun to see "new" cars!

Here's a couple from last September in Angouleme, a charming walled town about an hour from Paris by TGV. 

 

Very nice photos ! , thank you
Do not hesitate to tell me if one day you are in the south of France, it is with great pleasure that I will show you the region . 
I have a friend who has an old little racing car, a Rosengart . 
Every year in the town of Castelsarrasin (next to my house) there is an exhibition of old cars (from 1900 to 2020) and there is an old Peugeot racing car, with chain transmission  

[sebastienbuick]

20 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

@sebastienbuick 

 

Thank you for your amazing and ongoing contributions to the AACA FORUMS.

Having owned, restored, and campaigned several French cars (17 different Citroens at one time), I especially appreciate your photos.

My Citroen SM was an exciting toy, but the DS-21 Pallas and Break models were fantastic daily drivers, as well a comfortable and safe cross-country cruisers.

My 2-CV and my wife's Ami-6 always attracted attention, as did the Mehari.

Our Peugeot 504 diesel with Automatique 

Our dream car is a Chapron convertible - now unaffordable.

 

The Peugeot 203 Cabriolet is one I've never seen in person, and I especially enjoy the 505 convertible - beautiful !

I used to pass a Panhard Dyna, parked daily on Freret St near a deli when I taught and was administration, as well.

 

Hello and thank you for your answer
I see that you have driven a lot of Citroën and you must know them well  .
The Citroën SM, DS are superb cars, and even Citroën made a new brand in the 2010s called " DS " in memory of the Citroën DS of the time.
The new range of DS cars are high-end cars from Citroën
Here are photos and video of the new “DS” range created by Citroën :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is there anyone else you know who has Citroën ?
I think they are rare
In the south of France there is a company that manufactures all parts for Citroën 2cv/ Acadiane/ Diane and Mehari if you need to restore   .
Citroën Chaprons are very rare, even here in France, and they are very expensive too.
Peugeot 203 are beautiful cars and we often see them, the rarest are the 203 station wagons.
The convertible is very beautiful
I didn't know the 505 convertible, I know and have seen 505 coupes and sedans several times, but I haven't seen any convertibles.
And I did some research and saw that convertibles were for the American market!
It’s beautiful as a convertible too !
I didn't think there were Panhards that had to be imported  

[dictator27]

I think it is obvious that the design of the Peugeot 202 and 302 was influenced by the Chrysler Airflow.  Unlike the Airflow which met with strong sales resistance,  the 202 in particular was enthusiastically accepted by the French motoring public, lasting until 1948.  I think European car buyers were more willing to embrace cars which were unconventional in their design.

[sebastienbuick]

19 hours ago, dictator27 said:

How many people can remember the tv show Colombo starring Peter Falk?  His car on the show was a Peugeot 403 decapotable (convertible).

 

8 hours ago, TAKerry said:

I can probably recite 90% of the lines and can name 99% of the suspects! 

There are a couple versions of his car through the years. One thing I cant remember is if they used 2 or 3 cars. One of them is in a bit better condition than the other. 

Yes, even here in France, Commissioner Columbo with his Peugeot 403 was very well known !  

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

57 minutes ago, dictator27 said:

I think it is obvious that the design of the Peugeot 202 and 302 was influenced by the Chrysler Airflow.  Unlike the Airflow which met with strong sales resistance,  the 202 in particular was enthusiastically accepted by the French motoring public, lasting until 1948.  I think European car buyers were more willing to embrace cars which were unconventional in their design.

 

American automobile buyers have always been fussy that way. Hence the short run of that particular series of 1929 Buicks. Something as minor as a slight bulge below the beltline chased away the buying public, causing Buick to redesign the series to the previous more straight sides. Ford's Edsel in the 1950s was another example of American buyer's reluctance to some styling changes. The Edsel was a very good car, ahead of its time in many ways, but most Americans simply would not accept it. The Chrysler's "Airflow" is another well known automobile well ahead of its time that most people that could even afford one would not buy one.

 

While my primary interests in historic automobiles has always been in earlier automobiles (1900 through the mid 1920s), I have always been attracted to the European automobiles of the 1930s with their sleek designs. So many incredible marques with aerodynamic designs that just exude elegance! 

[Marty Roth]

2 hours ago, sebastienbuick said:

 

Yes, even here in France, Commissioner Columbo with his Peugeot 403 was very well known !  

 

 

Yes, along with his beat-up 403 Cabriolet and rumpled trenchcoat

(and sometimes his dog).

 

There was always a mention of his wife - but we believe it was strictly as a ruse, and to mislead the suspect. 

 

I try to record episodes when they are repeated on Cable TV

 

and thank you for the videos of the new DS versions - beautiful - and even the new emblem in the grille is special !

Edited November 18, 2023 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[dictator27]

2 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

American automobile buyers have always been fussy that way. Hence the short run of that particular series of 1929 Buicks. Something as minor as a slight bulge below the beltline chased away the buying public, causing Buick to redesign the series to the previous more straight sides. Ford's Edsel in the 1950s was another example of American buyer's reluctance to some styling changes. The Edsel was a very good car, ahead of its time in many ways, but most Americans simply would not accept it. The Chrysler's "Airflow" is another well known automobile well ahead of its time that most people that could even afford one would not buy one.

 

While my primary interests in historic automobiles has always been in earlier automobiles (1900 through the mid 1920s), I have always been attracted to the European automobiles of the 1930s with their sleek designs. So many incredible marques with aerodynamic designs that just exude elegance! 

Another Peugeot that was a leader in innovation was the 402 with the retractable roof introduced in 1938, 19 years before Ford brought their retractable. 

[sebastienbuick]

21 hours ago, dictator27 said:

I think it is obvious that the design of the Peugeot 202 and 302 was influenced by the Chrysler Airflow.  Unlike the Airflow which met with strong sales resistance,  the 202 in particular was enthusiastically accepted by the French motoring public, lasting until 1948.  I think European car buyers were more willing to embrace cars which were unconventional in their design.

 

I didn't know about the Chrysler Airflow and I just looked it up on the internet.
And it’s true that she looks a lot like that.
Some people think they see a Peugeot 203 when they see my parents' 1941 Buick Eight Special, and it's true that it looks like Peugeot was inspired by Buick for this model.
There are often TV shows on the history of French cars, and many French people go to America to see the cars and get ideas.
Even in the 1990s, the Renault manufacturer went to America for inspiration, and he saw that there were a lot of minivans/station wagons in America. And he said “in France we don’t have that, we have to make a large vehicle with space!”
And when he arrived in France he manufactured the Renault Espace series 1, and to create the front of this vehicle he was inspired by the front of the TGV train.

And the Renault Espace was a great success
Many French vehicles are inspired by America.

 

Renault Espace 1

 

 

[sebastienbuick]

20 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

American automobile buyers have always been fussy that way. Hence the short run of that particular series of 1929 Buicks. Something as minor as a slight bulge below the beltline chased away the buying public, causing Buick to redesign the series to the previous more straight sides. Ford's Edsel in the 1950s was another example of American buyer's reluctance to some styling changes. The Edsel was a very good car, ahead of its time in many ways, but most Americans simply would not accept it. The Chrysler's "Airflow" is another well known automobile well ahead of its time that most people that could even afford one would not buy one.

 

While my primary interests in historic automobiles has always been in earlier automobiles (1900 through the mid 1920s), I have always been attracted to the European automobiles of the 1930s with their sleek designs. So many incredible marques with aerodynamic designs that just exude elegance! 

 

Thanks for the information, I didn't know that.
But I seem to have heard that Edsel was not popular in America in the 1950s. And I remember a sentence in a film with the very good actors " Mr. Terrence Hill and Mr. Bud Spencer " (I love their film), where there is one who says to the other " you got it still your Edsel ? I need it to ride ", and the other replies " no I cut it up ".
Do you know why the Edsel was not liked ? I really like the Edsels, I found them very beautiful !  

[sebastienbuick]

19 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

Yes, along with his beat-up 403 Cabriolet and rumpled trenchcoat

(and sometimes his dog).

 

There was always a mention of his wife - but we believe it was strictly as a ruse, and to mislead the suspect. 

 

I try to record episodes when they are repeated on Cable TV

 

and thank you for the videos of the new DS versions - beautiful - and even the new emblem in the grille is special !

 

Haha yes it's true. There were a lot of episodes broadcast on TV.
At the moment I'm watching the Dukes of Hazzard TV series (the title is " Shérif fait moi peur ( sheriff scares me)  in French   ) and I'm on season 5 . 
With pleasure, I am happy to have introduced you to the DS brand cars, created by Citroen  

[sebastienbuick]

18 hours ago, dictator27 said:

Another Peugeot that was a leader in innovation was the 402 with the retractable roof introduced in 1938, 19 years before Ford brought their retractable. 

 

yes it's true that there were innovative cars for their time . 

[Marty Roth]

55 minutes ago, sebastienbuick said:

 With pleasure, I am happy to have introduced you to the DS brand cars, created by Citroen  

The first of my many Citroen DS Series cars, I purchased in 1969

[wayne sheldon]

1 hour ago, sebastienbuick said:

Do you know why the Edsel was not liked ? I really like the Edsels, I found them very beautiful !  

 

People have been debating and theorizing about that for more than sixty years now! I have never had one, and am not an expert on them. I know they had a number of for the time supposedly advanced features, which some people weren't ready for. However, chief among the suspected reasons was the styling and that large grill center.  It was often called a "horse collar" grill due to its resemblance to the horse collars that farmers and teamsters used for draft horses a generation earlier. While there was something imposing in the appearance of that grill, I never thought it looked bad, nor was it so different from the exposed radiators thirty years earlier. About a decade later, Pontiac used a similarly centered grill protrusion on their cars, which was quickly accepted and became the identifying characteristic for the marque. 

The car and its overall styling was big and imposing, however, most American cars during the mid and late 1960s were large and imposing.

Some people think the problem was Ford Motor Company's marketing approach. While Ford was a large, solid, and very well established company, they tried to make the Edsel into a "new" and separate entity. New dealerships were established, and they began to compete for sales against themselves! That created a level of distrust to some longtime automobile customers.

The final two years for Edsel, they toned down the styling. Whether that was the real issue or not, it was basically too late to save the new car-line. The Edsel had been, and became synonymous with, an utter failure. The new dealerships had invested great amounts of money, and suddenly had no product to sell. Unable to get franchises for American built automobiles, many of those new dealerships went to selling European automobiles! Which in turn created greater competition for American automobile manufacturers.

 

The long history of the automobile, and its cultural connections is fascinating. Studebaker, during the 1940s and 1950s, was quite different than most other American automobiles. Their styling was nearly always during those years about a decade ahead of any others. While most of Detroit was building the big imposing automobiles, many with big tailfins and other imposing features, Studebaker was building stylish smaller and more economical cars. Studebaker did have a niche and very loyal following which helped their survival for awhile. But Studebaker's differences and some level of success makes one wonder about how much of a role styling does play in the failure of the Edsel?

But the demise of Studebaker is another subject and debate for another day and thread.

[sebastienbuick]

9 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

People have been debating and theorizing about that for more than sixty years now! I have never had one, and am not an expert on them. I know they had a number of for the time supposedly advanced features, which some people weren't ready for. However, chief among the suspected reasons was the styling and that large grill center.  It was often called a "horse collar" grill due to its resemblance to the horse collars that farmers and teamsters used for draft horses a generation earlier. While there was something imposing in the appearance of that grill, I never thought it looked bad, nor was it so different from the exposed radiators thirty years earlier. About a decade later, Pontiac used a similarly centered grill protrusion on their cars, which was quickly accepted and became the identifying characteristic for the marque. 

The car and its overall styling was big and imposing, however, most American cars during the mid and late 1960s were large and imposing.

Some people think the problem was Ford Motor Company's marketing approach. While Ford was a large, solid, and very well established company, they tried to make the Edsel into a "new" and separate entity. New dealerships were established, and they began to compete for sales against themselves! That created a level of distrust to some longtime automobile customers.

The final two years for Edsel, they toned down the styling. Whether that was the real issue or not, it was basically too late to save the new car-line. The Edsel had been, and became synonymous with, an utter failure. The new dealerships had invested great amounts of money, and suddenly had no product to sell. Unable to get franchises for American built automobiles, many of those new dealerships went to selling European automobiles! Which in turn created greater competition for American automobile manufacturers.

 

The long history of the automobile, and its cultural connections is fascinating. Studebaker, during the 1940s and 1950s, was quite different than most other American automobiles. Their styling was nearly always during those years about a decade ahead of any others. While most of Detroit was building the big imposing automobiles, many with big tailfins and other imposing features, Studebaker was building stylish smaller and more economical cars. Studebaker did have a niche and very loyal following which helped their survival for awhile. But Studebaker's differences and some level of success makes one wonder about how much of a role styling does play in the failure of the Edsel?

But the demise of Studebaker is another subject and debate for another day and thread.

 

Thank you very much for all this explanation, it is very interesting.
I've seen very few Edsels (two or three maybe) and it's a shame there aren't many.
It's true that Studebaker are rare too (in France they are rare, I have only seen two since I have been going to car shows since around 2005).
And it’s true that they have another style.
For the 50s I really like cars with a lot of shape and with large "wings" like the Cadillac 58/59 , Chevrolet 58/59, Buick 58, Dodge 58/59 , ... , (I also really like all American cars from the 50s).
There was also an innovative car which unfortunately was not sold, the Tucker. I saw the film on TV and I loved it, and I bought the DVD of the film.

[dictator27]

How about the Panhard Dynamic or the Tatra 603.  Both very individualistic, incredible cars.

[wayne sheldon]

1 hour ago, dictator27 said:

How about the Panhard Dynamic or the Tatra 603.  Both very individualistic, incredible cars.

 

Quite a few years ago, I had an opportunity to look over a Tatra (I don't know the model number?), from the early 1950s. I was told it was virtually identical to the late 1930s models.

I have seen a couple Panhard Dynamics over the years.  One If I recall correctly was in the former William Harrah collection. Those great European designs of the entire 1930s were fascinating! 

[sebastienbuick]

On 11/18/2023 at 10:34 PM, Marty Roth said:

The first of my many Citroen DS Series cars, I purchased in 1969

 

I see you've known them for a long time !  

[sebastienbuick]

14 hours ago, dictator27 said:

How about the Panhard Dynamic or the Tatra 603.  Both very individualistic, incredible cars.

 

12 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

Quite a few years ago, I had an opportunity to look over a Tatra (I don't know the model number?), from the early 1950s. I was told it was virtually identical to the late 1930s models.

I have seen a couple Panhard Dynamics over the years.  One If I recall correctly was in the former William Harrah collection. Those great European designs of the entire 1930s were fascinating! 

 

These two cars are very rare, I have never seen one.
I know someone in Switzerland ( Suisse )  who has a Tatra 603 but I have never seen it in real life.

[cquisuila]

👋

Bravo à toi en effet pour ce super reportage !!!

 

philippe

Edited November 20, 2023 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[sebastienbuick]

8 hours ago, cquisuila said:

👋

Bravo à toi en effet pour ce super reportage !!!

 

philippe

 

Salut Philippe et merci !  , je ne savais pas que tu étais sur ce forum aussi  

[cquisuila]

16 hours ago, sebastienbuick said:

 

Salut Philippe et merci !  , je ne savais pas que tu étais sur ce forum aussi  

ici super forum !!!!! et aussi moins de com "désagréables" comme on en trouve sur certains forums en France....

[8E45E]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:38 PM, sebastienbuick said:

 

yes it's true that there were innovative cars for their time . 

The same was true with the Huliez concept Peugoet 407 Macarena four door retractable convertible:  

Unfortunately, it only remained a concept.

 

Craig

[8E45E]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:25 AM, sebastienbuick said:

 

 

These two cars are very rare, I have never seen one.
I know someone in Switzerland ( Suisse )  who has a Tatra 603 but I have never seen it in real life.

I don't have a photo of a Tatra 603, but here are a couple; one each of a Panhard Dynamic, and a Tatra 87.

 

Craig

[sebastienbuick]

4 hours ago, 8E45E said:

The same was true with the Huliez concept Peugoet 407 Macarena four door retractable convertible:  

Unfortunately, it only remained a concept.

 

Craig

 

 great concept, I didn't know (I'm French and I had never seen this video of this Peugeot concept).
It's a shame that it's only a concept and that there are no sales.
Peugeot also created a new futuristic 504 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the 504.
I like the bodywork of the new 504, but I don't really like the interior, I find it too futuristic.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, 8E45E said:

I don't have a photo of a Tatra 603, but here are a couple; one each of a Panhard Dynamic, and a Tatra 87.

 

Craig

 

very beautiful cars, rare and intriguing ! The Tatra looks like a car from a 007 James Bond movie