1923 dodge ignition problem

[M.Sinclair]

Hello, I’ve got a 1923 dodge and after sitting it will not start again on its own. On occasion when it does this the coil is physically hot to the touch but it will not start on its own aftiteling being run and shut off

[Mark Gregush]

What coil are you using? Sounds like a 12 volt modern coil without a resister. 

What do you mean by will not start on its own? (Personally, I would not want mine to start on its own, I would be afraid of it running away from home lol)

[maok]

If the coil is getting too hot to touch, check that the points haven't closed up. Too much heat in the coil suggests that too much current is running through it.

[nat]

3 hours ago, Mark Gregush said:

Sounds like a 12 volt modern coil without a resister. 

 

[Jonathan.sinclair]

Hi, this is M.Sinclair's brother. we are using a modern 12 volt coil. towards the start of the problems the car would not start without the assist of the starter and the crank. Now the car will not start at all.

[MikeC5]

It's quite possible, the coil does not include a ballast resistor and so full current is going through it.  This will make it heat up (I've melted one doing this).  If there is a part number on the coil, you may be able to research it and find out for sure.  I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'will not start on its own'.  Are you thinking of how Ford Model T's sometimes get a 'free' start if things are just right?  The Model T uses a much different type of ignition system; the DB can't do that.  Also, a coil can be intermittent when it gets hot (internal open circuit).  

 

[Jonathan.sinclair]

MikeC5 the car will not start with the power of the starter motor itself. Once you have someone holding the starter button and someone cranking to assist it  was starting, but we haven’t been able to do that recently

[Mark Gregush]

6 hours ago, Jonathan.sinclair said:

MikeC5 the car will not start with the power of the starter motor itself. Once you have someone holding the starter button and someone cranking to assist it  was starting, but we haven’t been able to do that recently

Does it have a rebuilt engine or is the starter/generator is in need of service? How is the battery?

Edited September 8, 2023 by Mark Gregush (see edit history)

[MikeC5]

How fast does it crank with starter motor?  I think normal is around 60 rpm (one rev/second).  You shouldn't need to help the starter motor with the hand crank (if I understood you correctly).  Have you taken one of plugs out and grounded it so you can observe the spark while cranking?  If weak or no spark, I would check points operation.  If they appear to be functioing, it may very well be a coil issue.  You can measure resistance of coil primary and secondary to check if either is an open circuit (with a cheap multi-meter).  A new 'modern' coil isn't very expensive and you can make sure it has the internal ballast resistor.  It's also quite easy to bypass the the starter switch, starter/generator and associated wiring by 'hot-wiring' the engine and just running the ignition off a 12 V battery for test purposes.  Just disconnect the small wires from the coil terminals and hook up leads direct to the battery.  Then hand crank to start.  This at least lets you know that the basic ignition system works and that you have either a starter/generator problem or wiring issue.  

[RAH]

Guys, This problem sounds like a faulty capacitor in the distributer. That cap is in parallel with the points  and a leaky cap will let the coil draw current and NOT let the points get to an OPEN circuit where the spark occurs. I would recommend removing the capacitor from the distributor then see if the engine will start in a regular fashion. DO NOT run it for any time without that cap in place as it may cause excess wear on the points. O.K. for a test. 

[Farmallregular]

First thing to do is fix the problem with the starter not turning over the engine fast enough instead of getting hung up on the coil getting hot.  You should not have to help it turn over with the crank.  If it stops with the points closed the coil will get hot even if it's the right coil.

 

Need to determine if the problem is the engine being too tight for the starter to turn or an electrical problem with the battery/cables/switch/starter.  How hard is the engine to turn with the crank?  You should be able to feel it come up on compression on each cylinder.

 

Start with the battery, is it fully charged and of sufficient capacity?  Are the cables in good shape and connections tight and not corroded?  Are the contacts in the foot operated start switch clean and in good shape?  If there aren't any problems  with these, it may be an issue with the starter/generator itself.

 

Keith