Touring Top Bows

[pkhammer]

I was wondering if there is any way to determine what these top bows are off of. I can take measurements if that helps.

[TOM H. S.]

Doesn't appear to match up with any Model T Ford versions so maybe Oakland or Essex?

[viv w]

Pretty sure it is not Chrysler

[pkhammer]

  They appear to fold in a manner similar to a late teens Buick, Overland or maybe even Maxwell. I was hoping that someone might recognize a feature, such as the way they clamp onto the top of the windshield posts (3rd photo).

  If I can identify them, I'd like to take them to Hershey and find someone that can use them.

[Bloo]

I could use them if they are Hupmobile "N". I kind of doubt it though. Is the rear window from the same car? Probably not "N" if so. I believe I have seen a window about like that on a Hupmobile "R".

 

 

[pkhammer]

By Golly they sure are at least similar to Hupmobile! I even found a photo of a 1917 Model N with that exact same rear window.

[Bloo]

That car is an "R" (though 1917 "N"s exist). There are a lot of incorrectly identified Hupmobiles out there. While they look similar, the "N" is larger and an older design. A dead giveaway is the windshield. It is bolt upright on an "N", and slopes on the "R".

 

This is a 1917 "N":

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[pkhammer]

Seems like we might be closing in on a possible ID so here are a few more pics. I tried to open the bows in a manner that looked like the top is in the UP position. The connections at the top of the windshield are 38 1/4" center to center. Also look for other details.....

The irons are in really good condition. The wood is intact but bad in spots. Good for patterns.

[Bloo]

I have 2 "N" cowls and windshields, but they are miles from here, so can't measure right now. One of the two has pins sticking out of the windshield with points and a groove that really do look like they could be the other half of your latches. The other one just has straight pins with no groove, but that might be for an all-weather top.

 

If the front bow was pointed out straight, would those clamps be aimed for the top of a straight windshield or a slanted one?

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[pkhammer]

Straight windshield. They would be straight up and down with front bow pointed straight out. The little clamps have little "nubs" inside that would clamp to a groove or set of divots in the windshield posts. They loosed when the little handle is flipped up and tighten when flipped down.

Would love to find someone that needs them and they will be plenty inexpensive.

[Bloo]

Unfortunately I'm not going to Hershey this year. I'm not sure how I would arrange to get them here, but if they turn out to be "N" I'll look into it. In the next day or 2 I will try to get where the cars are and measure between the posts. I'll also try to estimate what the length would be from the bow hinge point to the front, though the rear tonneau is not on the car so it may not be very accurate.

 

[pkhammer]

I just found photos of a 1917 Model N Touring that sold on BAT a couple of years ago. It has some pretty detailed photos and while I cannot say it's an exact match, some of the details are spot-on like the little parts (I'll call it the hatchet and groove) that fit together when the top is folded down appear to be an exact match.

[Bloo]

This does not appear to be "N", although I can't be 100% sure about 1917. I have 1915 and 1916 windshields and cowls. The measurements between the pins are 40-1/4" and 39-15/16". I have no 1917 "N" parts.

 

I have some pieces of a top frame too, they were previously cut down for a roadster by someone in the past. The pieces I have are the front bow and the rear bow, the rest of the mechanism is long gone. The pivots on the pieces I have are set up a little different. They don't quite match.

 

For what it's worth, the N appears to be 67" from the pivot point where the rear bow attaches to the rear tonneau to the centerline of the windshield post. This is a very rough measurement since the car is not assembled. Also the pivot points on the tonneau where the bow would pivot appear to be 57" apart in width. This is a very rough measurement. The metal parts of my front bow are 29-1/2" in total length, and the metal parts on the rear bow are 28-1/2" in total length. This is all academic because I am pretty sure your top is not "N", but it would be interesting to see how close it is.

 

P.S. mine is (or at least began life as) a 5 passenger touring. There are also 7 passenger "N" tourings on a longer wheelbase.

 

P.P.S. it still might be "R". The window sure looks like that pic of the 1917 "R" that someone was calling an "N".

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Fordy]

I just measured up my 23 R. 39.75 inches center to center on the pins. That still doesn't rule out earlier.

Steve

[pkhammer]

I have not ruled out Overland, Maxwell and possibly even Buick.

[wayne sheldon]

Me being Captain Obvious?

Setting the assembly up in a more natural "top up position" would help to visualize the placements of the various sockets and bows to better identify what it may have originally been used on, as well as give better measurements.

I have seen people set tops up held in position by strings from the shop ceiling or a tree limb.

 

With the hundreds of makes and models of touring cars across about fifteen years, coupled with the few surviving tops available not attached to a car? Someone finding the correct top for their car anymore is a rare occurrence. Usually, someone has to find something close, and then using photos and sales literature as a guide, alter it to fit and look right. Someone that understands how they fit and worked can usually get something so nice that nobody would ever question it.

 

Of course, on the other hand? Someone could have the correct sockets and bows and a bad trimmer can make it look horrible!

[pkhammer]

 They're loaded for the trip to Hershey, I'll see about getting them set up at the swap meet. Maybe someone there will decide they can use them.

Thanks to everyone that responded!