Changing most of the prewar fluids, what do you recommend?

[Morgan Wright]

22 hours ago, Lee H said:

 

 

 

 

I think it's cool that 20% and 40% are right up there with water, but 60% and greater makes such a big difference. My Evans system is 100% and that shoots the bed.

[Lee H]

Well, Evans doesn’t express their specific heat in these typical btu/lb-*F units, but converted, it is 0.63 (at 194F), or only 63% the heat carrying capacity of water. That’s a big trade off for the benefit, IMO.

 

And I don’t know why they choose -40F to express the viscosity, but I suspect they aren’t anxious for direct comparisons to normal coolants.

https://www.evanscoolant.com/Customer-Content/www/CMS/files/006974_01_EVANS_Catalog_hi_perf.pdf

Edited September 7, 2023 by Lee H (see edit history)

[Morgan Wright]

18 minutes ago, Lee H said:

Well, Evans doesn’t express their specific heat in these typical btu/lb-*F units, but converted, it is 0.63 (at 194F), or only 63% the heat carrying capacity of water. That’s a big trade off for the benefit, IMO.

 

And I don’t know why they choose -40F to express the viscosity, but I suspect they aren’t anxious for direct comparisons to normal coolants.

https://www.evanscoolant.com/Customer-Content/www/CMS/files/006974_01_EVANS_Catalog_hi_perf.pdf

 

It explains why my engine is so hot and the radiator is so cool. 

[Buick35]

On 8/30/2023 at 9:17 PM, BuickTom87 said:

What does everyone use for the steering box fluid. I just want to drain and refill mine . I’m sure it needs to be drained and refilled 

On my 35 I used "00" grease in my steering box. I bought it at Tractor Supply. Seems to work o.k. I don't know how it works in a real cold environment but I'm in Florida.

[Morgan Wright]

I use 600W steam engine oil

[28Buick]

This helpful discussion about proper coolant makes this a good spot to post this query on overheating. In the "electric fuel pump" string I finally sorted out the vacuum tank and fuel delivery and ended that with a thermal picture. I drove a few miles and it converted my 50:50 antifreeze mix into steam. Thermal images show the temperature differential in the radiator top to bottom is about 10 degrees F. Somebody here said the optimal differential should be 20 degrees F. There are cool spots in the radiator (center right facing from front image). Right side engine pic shows the water pump is doing its job as a hot spot. I removed the spark plug cover to see if any cylinder ran cool (not detected). Left side pic shows the exhaust manifold at 500+ degrees F. Even with the heat control OFF the Marvel carb was at about 145 degrees F.

 

Any advice on next steps? I think I should pull the radiator and flush it upside down. I got four gallons of Evaporust (at $30/gal). I doubt if I have a thermostat but if there is one I may pull it. I may install a nylon stocking to trap circulating rust. Any insights on how to make this non-pressurized system run as intended are most welcome.

[ArticiferTom]

Use a mirror to view top of radiator for calcium build up on tube holes ? Can develope if sat for years evaping off . Cleaned mine with CLR and tube brush then back flushed as you thinking .

[28Buick]

Great idea to view top of radiator for build up. Here are some endoscope video cam images. I did not connect the video output to a monitor, so these are crude cell phone pictures of the small handheld inspection screen. It is enough to show there are big balls of crud on top as in image 1, but the tube holes themselves appear to be in good shape as in 3 and 4.  Pic 5 shows there is no thermostat with a yet to be identified significant crud deposit. I filled the radiator to the top with a rag stuck in the hole that feeds the water pump. It took 12.2 seconds for it to empty. I read somewhere here that it should empty in a few seconds. Is this a reasonable expectation?

 

Pic 6 is my next question: How to remove the radiator on this 1928 Standard? I removed the engine cowl with 2 screws.  Do I now remove the two side acorn cap screws (left shown in 6)? Reconnecting the hidden nut inside the frame rail is going to be a PIA so I'm asking before I drop the nut. How do I clear the engine hand crank?

Edited September 11, 2023 by 28Buick (see edit history)

[Morgan Wright]

3 hours ago, 28Buick said:

Pic 6 is my next question: How to remove the radiator on this 1928 Standard? I removed the engine cowl with 2 screws.  Do I now remove the two side acorn cap screws (left shown in 6)? Reconnecting the hidden nut inside the frame rail is going to be a PIA so I'm asking before I drop the nut. How do I clear the engine hand crank?

 

 

You have to remove the headlights.

[Morgan Wright]

Where do I get an IR camera like that? Is FLIR the brand name?

 

I'm a get me one of they'm

[28Buick]

1 hour ago, Morgan Wright said:

Where do I get an IR camera like that? Is FLIR the brand name? I'm a get me one of they'm

I have the FLIR One Pro, it attaches to my android phone and works like the phone camera. I found it handy to improve home insulation and recently to check blood flow in my dog who had leg surgery. It will also help locate a fresh warm dog turd if you want to be nice to your neighbors.

[28Buick]

On 9/11/2023 at 2:25 AM, Morgan Wright said:

 

You have to remove the headlights.

Thanks for the reply. At least on my 1928 it required removing the whole front end: Headlight rail, bumper, center front valence, engine cowl. No need to disconnect the front leaf spring or jack the car, just back out the bolt far enough to drop the valence. Fortunately there was no rust or over torqued fasteners so it went quickly. I found tape remnants on the radiator nut inside the frame rail, a good clue on how to reassemble.

[28Buick]

Finally fixed the overheating problem, now running just water without making steam. Will likely refill with Evaporust. Got a load of crap out of the engine with a magnet. In case anybody wants to do this here it is in pictures:

1- Remove radiator by removing bumper, headlamps, front valence and engine cowl.

2- Flushed radiator upside down with garden hose water. Most of what came out was blue-green pebbles that crumbled easily between fingers.

3- Circulated 10% vinegar for a day (regular home vinegar is 5%). Then circulated full strength CLR for a day.

4- A water transfer pump and inline filter pushed circulating fluids into bottom radiator hose and sucked it out from the top in a continuous loop. Not much stuff was trapped in the filter.

5- Clean out engine through the freeze plugs.

6- Removed a considerable amount of rusty debris with a magnetic pickup tool.

7- Magnet did not fit through front freeze plug hole.

8- A high pressure water spray flushed the engine through the freeze plug holes, extracting more crap.

9- A picture of most of the stuff extracted from the engine with a magnetic pickup.

10- Clear Gano filter in the top return hose makes trapped circulating particles visible.

11- The leather fan belt failed on reassembly. A new belt is maybe two weeks on order.  I happened to be wearing a 2 inch Timberline leather belt that was the same width of the failed fan belt. So punched holes with an awl and stitched it in a loop with size 210D heavy upholstery thread.

12- Fashionable hand stitched fan belt, formerly around my waist, spins the fan faster than before. I suspect the old belt was slipping and contributed to the overheating problem.

[Machine Gun]

7 hours ago, 28Buick said:

Finally fixed the overheating problem, now running just water without making steam. Will likely refill with Evaporust. Got a load of crap out of the engine with a magnet. In case anybody wants to do this here it is in pictures:

1- Remove radiator by removing bumper, headlamps, front valence and engine cowl.

2- Flushed radiator upside down with garden hose water. Most of what came out was blue-green pebbles that crumbled easily between fingers.

3- Circulated 10% vinegar for a day (regular home vinegar is 5%). Then circulated full strength CLR for a day.

4- A water transfer pump and inline filter pushed circulating fluids into bottom radiator hose and sucked it out from the top in a continuous loop. Not much stuff was trapped in the filter.

5- Clean out engine through the freeze plugs.

6- Removed a considerable amount of rusty debris with a magnetic pickup tool.

7- Magnet did not fit through front freeze plug hole.

8- A high pressure water spray flushed the engine through the freeze plug holes, extracting more crap.

9- A picture of most of the stuff extracted from the engine with a magnetic pickup.

10- Clear Gano filter in the top return hose makes trapped circulating particles visible.

11- The leather fan belt failed on reassembly. A new belt is maybe two weeks on order.  I happened to be wearing a 2 inch Timberline leather belt that was the same width of the failed fan belt. So punched holes with an awl and stitched it in a loop with size 210D heavy upholstery thread.

12- Fashionable hand stitched fan belt, formerly around my waist, spins the fan faster than before. I suspect the old belt was slipping and contributed to the overheating problem.

Nice work, and thanx for the writeup. The Gano filter is a great idea that I'm considering for my own car, but how would you be able to remove the crud it traps? The filter will surely do its job to keep junk out of your radiator, but with your upper radiator hose at such a steep angle it seems to me that much of what it catches would drop back into the engine after its shuts off. 

[EmTee]

3 hours ago, Machine Gun said:

The filter will surely do its job to keep junk out of your radiator, but with your upper radiator hose at such a steep angle it seems to me that much of what it catches would drop back into the engine after its shuts off. 

The Gano has two conical screens; one at each end.  The first has a small hole in the middle, so junk is directed through the first screen and is stopped by the second one.  Junk is caught in between the screens and the first one prevents stuff from just falling backward into the engine.  The second screen can be removed for cleaning.

 

Honestly, in your case, I would just install a ankle-high stocking at the input to the radiator.  The stocking filter works well and catches finer material than the Gano does.  I have both on my '38 and only get a couple of flakes in the Gano, while the stocking had about a tablespoon of 'rusty sand'.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by EmTee
changed knee-high --> ankle high (see edit history)

[Machine Gun]

@EmTee Ah, now I understand. The second screen wasn't obvious to me from the photo. Thanx for the clarification.

 

The stocking is the other option I'm considering. I first learned about it from one of your other threads on your '38. That might be my best option, at least as a first step. If it catches very little I'll have saved a few bux. 

[EmTee]

I haven't discovered any downside to the stocking filter.  The only thing to watch for is that there isn't any of the nylon sticking out from under the hose when clamped in place.  Any exposed nylon will slowly weep coolant.  Not a big problem, but it will make a mess over time if allowed to continue.

[28Buick]

2 hours ago, EmTee said:

I haven't discovered any downside to the stocking filter.  The only thing to watch for is that there isn't any of the nylon sticking out from under the hose when clamped in place.  Any exposed nylon will slowly weep coolant.  Not a big problem, but it will make a mess over time if allowed to continue.

I also found your prior posts helpful. Just wondering why you use a knee-high nylon stocking? Does the entire length of the stocking go inside the top of the radiator? Maybe I missed something, so some suggestion of the best way to install, fasten or periodically empty the stocking filter is appreciated. Holding the sock without any of it visible beyond the clamp may need a special touch. I was thinking of placing a sock inside the Gano, but that would only be a toe piece and not a knee high garment.  There is so much crap inside the engine so any effort to protect the honeycomb is needed.

[EmTee]

Sorry, I actually used an ankle-high stocking because it seemed to be about the right length.  I installed it into the radiator inlet and then fold the opening back over the radiator nipple.  The hose is then installed over the nipple (with stocking trapped between the nipple and hose) and clamped in place as usual.  I found that a single 3/8" wide wrap of electrical tape (cut a piece of 3/4" wide tape in half lengthwise) over the edge of the stocking helps the hose slip over without bunching-up the stocking.  Cut off the hem before taping the end of stocking in place.  I use a short piece of rubber fuel hose to push the stocking into the radiator tank.  In my '38, the stocking lays in the tank at the top of the core.

 

The stocking will stretch as necessary as it catches debris, so unlike the Gano, there's a low probability of it clogging to the point where it interferes with flow.  The frequency that you need to check and rinse the stocking will depend upon the amount of crud in the water jacket and miles driven.  I'd suggest checking after the first 200 miles and then adjust the schedule based on observations.

[IFDPete]

An alternative to using a stocking or a Gano filter is a product called a TEFBA filter.  I stumbled on these about 10 years ago.  I have one installed on my 1949 Buick Super and I have purchased one for when I put my 1921 Buick engine back together.  They install in the upper radiator hose and catch particles before coolant enters the radiator.  They have a screw on cap on top and the screen is easy to lift out and clean.  I also have circular donut magnet dropped in it that fits around the center pole to hold onto contaminants.  TEFBA filters are made in Australia.  They come in different sizes 1 1/4", 1 1/2" etc.  After using this product on my 49 for the last 10 years I highly recommend them.  I have purchased them off of Ebay but you can find them other places on the internet.  Easy to install and clean out and they get the job done.  Only downside is that they need to be installed level or only at a slight incline and also at, or above, the highest coolant level (near the top of the radiator).  That way when you open it coolant doesn't just run out from the top.  First two pics are the install on my 49 Super.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by IFDPete
wording (see edit history)

[EmTee]

@JohnD1956 has a filter like that on his '56 Super.  Nice thing about that one is it's easy to check and clean.