Search for information about the White Motor Co. TBC chassis

[KoBa]

Hello, friends. I am a 3D designer from Ukraine. At the moment I am working on restoring the appearance of an armored car produced in 1915. It is known that the car contained a White Motor Co.  Model TBC truck chassis. Unfortunately, I have not yet been able to find authentic information about the appearance and parameters of this chassis. Perhaps someone can suggest a source of free information on this topic or will be so kind for to share the available images. Blueprints or sketches would be ideal, but I would also appreciate any photos taken from different angles of the frame, engine, and cabin interior.
Wish you peace and prosperity.

[edinmass]

White would have built a one off chassis for such a project. They were very good at custom building different platforms. 3/4 ton, 1 ton, 1 1/4 & 1 1/2 ton, then 3 & 5 ton chassis were all standard above the three car chassis available in 1915………30,45, and 60 horse power units. Most likely the engine was a 45 hp truck engine, as by 1915 they already announced the end of the six. Production of one offs and specials was no big deal for White. They built at least ten standard vehicles for WWI and delivered 18,000 of them overseas. Unless you have actual close up photos of the vehicles you posted, it’s impossible to correctly identify what platform it is.

Edited February 23, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[KoBa]

20 hours ago, edinmass said:

White would have built a one off chassis for such a project. They were very good at custom building different platforms. 3/4 ton, 1 ton, 1 1/4 & 1 1/2 ton, then 3 & 5 ton chassis were all standard above the three car chassis available in 1915………30,45, and 60 horse power units. Most likely the engine was a 45 hp truck engine, as by 1915 they already announced the end of the six. Production of one offs and specials was no big deal for White. They built at least ten standard vehicles for WWI and delivered 18,000 of them overseas. Unless you have actual close up photos of the vehicles you posted, it’s impossible to correctly identify what platform it is.

Thanks for your comment and valuable tips. I really was so stupid when I believed that specifying the TBC model would be enough. Now I understand that it was wrong. So I did some more research today. The information is really very scarce. There are no internal photographs. At all! However, here's what I was able to find out more:
1. This was exactly the standard chassis from a White TBC 1.5-ton complete truck.
2. The truck was one of those that were exported to the Russian Empire.
3. The chassis was produced no later than the end of 1914.
4. Some sources claim that the engine was a carbureted, 4-cylinder, in-line, liquid-cooled, displacement of 3.672 liters on 35 horse power units. In fact, here the information about the volume and power may be erroneous, but it is known for sure that the engine was not powerful enough for such heavy car.
5. It looks like the steering wheel was located on the left side.
I really hope that with such data, the expert will be able to at least guess what kind of standard chassis is meant.
Detailing is not so important here. But it is very important to understand the overall layout of the nodes, as well as the main dimensions of the chassis itself. This is important because the dimensions and real proportions of the entire car depend on it.
Thanks again for your help.

Edited February 23, 2023 by KoBa (see edit history)

[KoBa]

I keep researching. Now I think that it would be enough to find information about the chassis of this car.

It's great if I can look into a such manual or something like that.

True, here is a 1919 car, but I can only believe that it was not too different. This car is very similar to the photographs of trucks of that period.

I therefore take the liberty of showing you some photographs. (Correct me, please, if I'm wrong and this is not the right car at all).

[1937hd45]

Some time within the past year there were photos of WWI White trucks disassembled and on pallets ready to be shipped overseas, on this site or another.  

[Walt G]

Most likely the trucks to go to Europe ( as well as cars) were sent by rail road freight car to New York City, then loaded on steam ships of considerable size in the hold and then arriving in Europe ( perhaps London or Paris) would be unloaded and again travel by railroad freight car to Russia. It was an era before any airplane  travel which at the time was done by air ships/ zeppelins.

New York City was and still is a deep water port to accommodate this type of ship - on the west side of Manhattan island. Packard made a lot of $ selling and shipping their Trucks to Europe to supply the war effort there , all purchased  by European countries to then fit with what they needed to use them for in conflict once they arrived in Europe .

[edinmass]

56 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Some time within the past year there were photos of WWI White trucks disassembled and on pallets ready to be shipped overseas, on this site or another.  

I posted those photos. I’m at Boca show now with the Grand Puba Steve M.  More Monday. 

[1937hd45]

25 minutes ago, edinmass said:

I posted those photos. I’m at Boca show now with the Grand Puba Steve M.  More Monday. 

Thanks! You just save me hours of scrolling through old photos. Have fun, post some photos of the cars we didn't get to see. Bob 

[edinmass]

[edinmass]

[edinmass]

[JV Puleo]

3 hours ago, Walt G said:

Most likely the trucks to go to Europe ( as well as cars) were sent by rail road freight car to New York City, then loaded on steam ships of considerable size in the hold and then arriving in Europe ( perhaps London or Paris) would be unloaded and again travel by railroad freight car to Russia. It was an era before any airplane  travel which at the time was done by air ships/ zeppelins.

New York City was and still is a deep water port to accommodate this type of ship - on the west side of Manhattan island. Packard made a lot of $ selling and shipping their Trucks to Europe to supply the war effort there , all purchased  by European countries to then fit with what they needed to use them for in conflict once they arrived in Europe .

Walt...I don't believe there was any rail connection between the Russian Empire and Europe during the war. I suspect the trucks went by sea to St. Petersburg or one of the Baltic ports. Converting them into armored cars would most likely have been done in one of the large industrial centers of western Russia.

[KoBa]

Has anyone come across an image of this type, but not a 3/4-ton, but a 1&1/2-ton TBC trucks chassis? If it also contains any size - it will be happiness. It might be in old manuals.

[JV Puleo]

8 hours ago, KoBa said:

This picture is particularly interesting because all the uniforms are Russian except the medic sitting on the running board...he is wearing an Austrian uniform. Possibly a prisoner? It was common in both armies for medics to be left behind to care for the wounded when an army retreated. This was widely respected and often they were repatriated as soon as possible.

Edited February 25, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[KoBa]

21 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

This picture is particularly interesting because all the uniforms are Russian except the medic sitting on the running board...he is wearing an Austrian uniform. Possibly a prisoner? It was common in both armies for medics to be left behind to care for the wounded when an army retreated. This was widely respected and often they were repatriated as soon as possible.

Interesting observation - I didn't even notice before. Now I don't even remember where I copied this picture. I am now collecting a lot of photos White trucks. However, thanks for your comment. It stuck! My great-grandfather served in the Austrian army during WW1 and was taken prisoner by Russian troops, after which he ended up in the Urals. However, he was Ukrainian. It's just that the part of Galicia in which he was born and lived was at that time the part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

[KoBa]

It's weird, but a 4m wheelbase chassis doesn't seem to fit. The photo of the armored car shows that the rear wheel should be located further from the front. It needs at least 0.5 meters more. Is there anyone who is aware of the existence of a standard 1&1/2 TBC chassis with a wheelbase longer than 4m? I don't believe they would cut a standard chassis. (Although those is Russia - everything happens there).

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by KoBa (see edit history)

[edinmass]

I tried to explain to you……that chassis on the wheeled tank is NOT a factory production chassis. It was a one off unit. And it’s probably custom springs and steering linkage. White had engineers in house, and they were EXPENSIVE, they didn’t guess or “just try”. Everything they did was well thought out.

 

There is NO measurement on that tank that can be used as a reference for scale……….the wheels are one off, as is everything else.

Edited February 26, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[KoBa]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

I tried to explain to you……that chassis on the wheeled tank is NOT a factory production chassis. It was a one off unit. And it’s probably custom springs and steering linkage. White had engineers in house, and they were EXPENSIVE, they didn’t guess or “just try”. Everything they did was well thought out.

 

There is NO measurement on that tank that can be used as a reference for scale……….the wheels are one off, as is everything else.

Of course I respect your opinion very much. There is no doubt that in a normal country they would have done exactly as you say. But this car has a specific and rather strange history. At the beginning of the war, a rich philanthropist decided to send his son to the war. He handed over several cars to the military department. All these cars were ordinary civilian cars. But they were already dressed in armor in an amateur way at the expense of this patron. His condition was that his son would serve in this unit with these machines. But military officials rejected the reinforcement made. In addition to poor protection, some of the cars were also too weak. Then this rich man agreed with the military that they themselves would re-equip his cars at the military plant, and he would pay for this work. At the same time, he replaced one of the weakest cars (a racing Benz) with a White truck, which he quickly bought somewhere. It was definitely a regular standard truck. No White engineers touched it anymore. It is from this that an armored car was made in military workshops, which I am reproducing. They could have done a lot with this chassis, but they definitely did everything themselves. What kind of chassis it was is not exactly known. Some researchers wrote that it was a 1.5-ton TBC truck. (There really were a lot of them in Russia at that time. (after the war, even a special White truck repair plant was built)). But I do not know how the researchers found out this. There are no references. I can only hope that USA experts will be able to guess the closest variant from among the standard White chassis. ((((

Edited February 26, 2023 by KoBa (see edit history)

[edinmass]

If the vehicle in question was built before 1915, it’s much more likely it’s a car chassis. Gas chassis built from 1912-1915 for automobiles could have been a 30 or 40/45 hp four, or a 60 hp six. Certainly production of cars were mostly 30hp units. Few 40/45 & 60 Ho machines were built. Also, with such an early dated chassis it’s unlikely to be more than a one ton unit if it was a truck chassis. Most early trucks of 1 1/2 ton platforms had dual rear wheels, most but not all. Simply put without more photos of the vehicle close up it’s all conjecture and guesswork.

 

From all published information, no large orders of White trucks were shipped overseas till 1916 and most of what is known has them delivered to France and England, and stuff delivered to Russia was much more likely late in the war from the little information I have seen. I think impossible to prove anything……….and the question is it really a White chassis should be considered. You also had dozens of other companies sending things over for the war effort. Peerless, Pierce Arrow,Locomobile, Packard, GMC,FWD………the list is endless.

Edited February 26, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

If it helps any, Here is my model 15 Truck. These were built from 1915 thru 1925. It is a 3/4 ton truck and has the 22 HP motor that was also used in the White 30 Automobile. I can send you any measurements or photos that you may want.  Also look at this YouTube video. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[KoBa]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

If the vehicle in question was built before 1915, it’s much more likely it’s a car chassis. Gas chassis built from 1912-1915 for automobiles could have been a 30 or 40/45 hp four, or a 60 hp six. Certainly production of cars were mostly 30hp units. Few 40/45 & 60 Ho machines were built. Also, with such an early dated chassis it’s unlikely to be more than a one ton unit if it was a truck chassis. Most early trucks of 1 1/2 ton platforms had dual rear wheels, most but not all. Simply put without more photos of the vehicle close up it’s all conjecture and guesswork.

 

From all published information, no large orders of White trucks were shipped overseas till 1916 and most of what is known has them delivered to France and England, and stuff delivered to Russia was much more likely late in the war from the little information I have seen. I think impossible to prove anything……….and the question is it really a White chassis should be considered. You also had dozens of other companies sending things over for the war effort. Peerless, Pierce Arrow,Locomobile, Packard, GMC,FWD………the list is endless.

Thank you so much for your last comment - this is useful information for me anyway. Unfortunately, only 3 photos of this "bronevik" have been preserved. I bring them all below in this post. As you can see, all the photos are taken from a distorted angle, which does not allow you to estimate the dimensions accurately enough. Also, all the images that can be found on the web were processed and often the processing was erroneous. For example, in the third photo, where the car is driving on the road, the digital artist did not properly clear the rear wheel. He did not guess the shadow of the tower and the silhouette of the steps, so the wheel was sunk into the body. I assume there are other mistakes.

 

Yes, there is very little information. And as always, where there are no facts, there are hypotheses that can be difficult to distinguish from facts, because bloggers and even researchers often do not indicate the source. But when you dive into the information, you begin to understand where the truth is and where the hypotheses are.

The fact that our armored car was made from a White truck is 100% accurate. In this way it is mentioned in the correspondence of the patron with the military department. And that's what military officials call him in official correspondence. The thing is, you're right. At the beginning of the war, Russia experienced an acute shortage of military equipment. Therefore, armored cars were made from everything they could find. There were Pierce-Arrou and Benzs and Packard and anyone. Everything was done quickly and without proper engineering calculations. This is the reason why almost all the first armored vehicles were unsuccessful. But something else is important. In order not to get confused in this fleet consisting of different vehicles with different equipment, the military continued to call armored cars what cars were converted from. For example, they called an armored car from a racing Benz - "racing Benz", and our armored car was called "White truck" in official documents. Therefore, this question is proven.

 

I can also say that during the whole war there was only one car, originally made on a White chassis. And it turned out to be one of the most successful of the first "artisanal" alterations. (Then the "Austins" were also sometimes rearranged on the White chassis, but that's another story). And this car, according to some sources, fought even in the 1920 when it was Civil War, and this is a very high degree of survival. Therefore, I really want to restore its characteristics as accurately as possible.

 

This is a legendary car and it deserves to make an effort. Let these be hypotheses, but let them be well-founded and made by real experts like you are.

Thank you for your help.

 

 

[Walt G]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

Simply put without more photos of the vehicle close up it’s all conjecture and guesswork.

I admire what you are trying to accomplish but as frustrating to you as it may be to try to do this and not have information the same goes for us here who may have some access to period information  but not exactly the answers to your questions. It had been a 100 years + since this happened, as you state many things could have been changed by people who really didn't have the engineering capabilities that the truck manufacturer who built it had. We here can not generate exact information if there is none here to confirm by period material in written form, diagrams , plans etc. Again , I can appreciate your project but you are being insistent about something that may not now exist.

[1937hd45]

We can only dream of what the "racing Benz" was, a million dollar car today. 

 

Bob 

[KoBa]

4 hours ago, Dandy Dave said:

If it helps any, Here is my model 15 Truck. These were built from 1915 thru 1925. It is a 3/4 ton truck and has the 22 HP motor that was also used in the White 30 Automobile. I can send you any measurements or photos that you may want.  

Yes, indeed - your truck is beautiful! It is very valuable that this one is completely authentic, without unnecessary traces of restoration. I noticed it earlier and grabbed it for my project. It's probably a lighter car than I need. However, I believe that the difference is mainly in size, and the basic layout is quite the same. Perhaps later I will be able to clarify something and then I will simply extrapolate some data from your truck to my project. Therefore, thank you very much for the offer of help. I wouldn't dare to be the first to ask you to take additional pictures and answer my amateurish questions, but the truth is that I really need it. Therefore, please consider my following questions, and satisfy those that you find not too tedious.

 

1. Unfortunately, I am not sure that I fully understand all the controls that I see in the cab of old cars. Ideally, if you took a photo of the control panel of your truck and signed which handle does what. But if it takes a lot of time, then at least take a look at picture #1 and tell me the answer to those questions, pls.

 

2. Other questions are not so stupid, but they can be annoying. I would like to have as many photos as possible of a variety of nodes and fasteners located directly on the frame. I understand that this is too much and too vague, so maybe it is possible to see up close the nodes that I have indicated in pictures #2 and #3, pls?

 

 

3. Of course, the size is very important. In principle, one or two basic sizes would be enough for me to find the rest by comparison. But the pages from which the scans were made are slightly curved, so I would like to know as many sizes as you would not mind telling me. In picture #4. I have listed the maximum with excess.

Also please let me know such distances:
- from the center of the steering wheel to the floor in the cabin; 
- from the surface of the driver's seat to the floor in the cab;
- from the floor in the cabin to the ground.

 

 

4. It is also very important for me to know the opinion of a practitioner about how difficult, if at all possible, it is to perform the following operations without original spare parts:
- Change the angle of the steering rod and/or shorten the rod so that the steering wheel becomes lower? Ideally, the task is to lower the driver's seat down, taking into account the operation of levers and pedals.
- Widen the gauge or track (the distance between the left and right wheels of both axles).
- Lengthen the wheelbase (the distance between the front and rear axles.)
I understand that at the manufacturer's factory this is done without problems. The question is how confidently it could be done in someone else's workshop without additional original spare parts at all?

 

If it would be more convenient for you, it is possible to use my e-mail: koba.ltd@gmail.com

Thank you in advance and I apologize if I have abused your generous offer.

 

 

[KoBa]

5 hours ago, Walt G said:

I admire what you are trying to accomplish but as frustrating to you as it may be to try to do this and not have information the same goes for us here who may have some access to period information  but not exactly the answers to your questions. It had been a 100 years + since this happened, as you state many things could have been changed by people who really didn't have the engineering capabilities that the truck manufacturer who built it had. We here can not generate exact information if there is none here to confirm by period material in written form, diagrams , plans etc. Again , I can appreciate your project but you are being insistent about something that may not now exist.

But no - I'm definitely not insisting. And I don't expect a miracle. Perhaps I just did not correctly convey the task level.

 

I'm not the first one who tried to recreate the look of this unit. You can find many modern interpretations on the web. But when I undertook to do the same, I quickly realized that my predecessors did not even try to observe authenticity. They just looked at the photo and molded everything as it seemed right to them. I understand that this approach has a right to exist, but only as the worst option.

 

But why don't we try to push off not from a photo, but from some real truck? After all, there was a certain line of standard solutions of that period and it is known to specialists. After all, if we saw a manual for a 3/4 truck here, why can't we hope to see a manual for a 1&1/2 truck?

 

But if we then run into some strange question (for example, the gauge of a standard truck is too narrow), then we will have the right to shift this fact to a garage alteration. Probably this way we won't get a completely exact copy of the original car. But this way we will definitely become closer to the truth than those who are guided only by their inner feelings.

 

I think so. :)))

[KoBa]

2 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

We can only dream of what the "racing Benz" was, a million dollar car today. 

 

Bob 

In fairness, these cars were not cheap even then. But for some reason they tried to make armored cars out of them. This is a really interesting fact. I think the rich man who offered to remake his 150 hp racing Benz and then wanted to fight on it himself, still did not fully understand what war is and how war differs from safari. But soon they understood everything - from among those who survived.

[JV Puleo]

I think one of the things that is poorly understood in the west is that the Russian Army made much more extensive use of armored cars than any of the other allies. The eastern front was never as static as the western front. The trench warfare we associate with WWI did not develop and the armored car was much more useful. One of my particular interests is the pre-revolutionary Russian Army so I've seen a fair number of references to the armored cars... Somewhere I have a photo of one that, if I can find it, I'll scan and post though I think it was a Pierce Arrow or a Peerless.

 

There was even a British armored car squadron attached to the Russian Army in the Caucasus...Locker-Lamson's Royal Navy Lanchester armored cars. Oddly enough, the first British armored cars belonged to the Navy, organized by the then First Lord of the Admiralty, Winston Churchill to protect Royal Navy Air Service installations in Belgium and France. Eventually they were transferred to the army but the Russian squadron remained in the Navy because they had to be supplied by sea. The cars all had names...and were referred to as HMAC (His Majesties Armored Car). One of the few surviving examples is a RR Silver Ghost HMAC Wedding Bells (because it was used in a wedding procession). The men originally had naval rank and generally wore army uniforms with naval insignia.

Edited February 26, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

With the style of wheels in the rear of the Armored car I will agree it is a 1-1/2 ton model. It is winter here now and my 3/4 ton White is tucked away in a barn. I can get some measuerments and photos for you now. Some will have to wait for warmer weather when I can get it out as it is packed in pretty tight. 

[Dandy Dave]

17 hours ago, KoBa said:

 

 

1. Unfortunately, I am not sure that I fully understand all the controls that I see in the cab of old cars. Ideally, if you took a photo of the control panel of your truck and signed which handle does what. But if it takes a lot of time, then at least take a look at picture #1 and tell me the answer to those questions, pls.

 

2. Other questions are not so stupid, but they can be annoying. I would like to have as many photos as possible of a variety of nodes and fasteners located directly on the frame. I understand that this is too much and too vague, so maybe it is possible to see up close the nodes that I have indicated in pictures #2 and #3, pls?

 

 

 

 

I took those photos of the Model 15 White in the above at the Macungie, PA show. My White truck was right beside it. On the steering column. The long lever it a throttle and attaches to the floor peddle also. The short lever is for the spark advance and retard. You are correct on the others mentioned. 

[KoBa]

32 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said:

With the style of wheels in the rear of the Armored car I will agree it is a 1-1/2 ton model.

Yes, it seems to me more and more that that was the 1-1/2 ton model. It even seems I have found the reason for the wheelbase mismatch. I will just need to recalculate the proportions of the main tower.  Only I still can't understand why the track (gauge) width of the 1-1/2 model I took as a reference is so small - it's only 56 inches (a little more than 142cm.). It doesn't look so narrow in old photos! It turns out the ratio of width to length 400cm / 142cm = 2.81 - this is a very narrow machine. In modern cars, they usually maintain a ratio of 1.7-1.8. Maybe I don't understand something and in the USA the track width is considered in a different way (not according to the centers of two wheels of one bridge)?  

Edited February 27, 2023 by KoBa (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

1 minute ago, KoBa said:

Yes, it seems to me more and more that that was the 1-1/2 ton model. It even seems I have found the reason for the wheelbase mismatch. I will just need to recalculate the proportions of the main tower.  Only I still can't understand why the track width of the 1-1/2 model I took as a reference is so small - it's only 56 inches (a little more than 142cm.). It doesn't look so narrow in old photos! It turns out the ratio of width to length 400cm / 142cm = 2.81 - this is a very narrow machine. In modern cars, they usually maintain a ratio of 1.7-1.8. Maybe I don't understand something and in the USA the track width is considered in a different way (not according to the centers of two wheels of one bridge)?  

It is quite common to have a 56" track on vehicles that were built here and around the world. Basically it was the width on a Roman Charriot. Everyone kept building things that would follow in their ruts.

[KoBa]

4 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said:

It is quite common to have a 56" track on vehicles that were built here and around the world. Basically it was the width on a Roman Charriot. Everyone kept building things that would follow in their ruts.

Yes, I've heard of it. But still, the width seems to be larger in the photos. Is your truck also 56"?

[Dandy Dave]

11 minutes ago, KoBa said:

Yes, I've heard of it. But still, the width seems to be larger in the photos. Is your truck also 56"?

Yes. 56 inches on a 121-1/2 inch optional chassies. 133-1/2 was standard. 

 

 

[KoBa]

8 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said:

Yes. 56 inches on a 121-1/2 inch optional chassies. 133-1/2 was standard. 

Thanks. Let me ask you one more question. I think they definitely didn't widen the front axle. There you can see the original cross beam. They wouldn't cast such a new one. But what about the rear axle? In two of the three photos, the rear axle seems wider than the front one. Please share your personal impression. Don't you think the rear axle has been widened?

[Dandy Dave]

You may find some information from the Western Reserve Historical Society. I think they were low staffed during covid. They have the remaining records from the White company. https://www.wrhs.org/ . I have copies of the books for my truck I recived from them.

[Steve S. in PA]

KoBa I suggest you contact the American Truck Historical Society in Kansas City Missouri. They have extensive White truck information in their library. I do not know if it dates as far back as 1914. You might also post your inquiry on the Just Old Trucks website. There are a couple men there who are White truck experts. Here is a link        http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/Forums/PeterJs-Place

Good luck in your search.

[Dandy Dave]

2 minutes ago, KoBa said:

Thanks. Let me ask you one more question. I think they definitely didn't widen the front axle. There you can see the original cross beam. They wouldn't cast such a new one. But what about the rear axle? In two of the three photos, the rear axle seems wider than the front one. Please share your personal impression. Don't you think the rear axle has been widened?

Being it has dual wheels the 56 inch center would be between the wheels I would think. This would make the outer wheel wider than the center of the front wheel.

[KoBa]

4 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said:

Being it has dual wheels the 56 inch center would be between the wheels I would think. This would make the outer wheel wider than the center of the front wheel.

So you think that the rear axle is not expanded additionally and the impression is only due to the doubled wheel? So? Thank you. I couldn't rely on my inexperienced eye.

[KoBa]

14 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said:

You may find some information from the Western Reserve Historical Society. I think they were low staffed during covid. They have the remaining records from the White company. https://www.wrhs.org/ . I have copies of the books for my truck I recived from them.

Yes, thanks. I have already tried to look there, but probably my poor knowledge of English did not allow me to succeed. Do you think it is necessary to contact them by e-mail?

[Dandy Dave]

21 minutes ago, KoBa said:

Yes, thanks. I have already tried to look there, but probably my poor knowledge of English did not allow me to succeed. Do you think it is necessary to contact them by e-mail?

I called them and had good results. Doing a little research a Model  TBC is a 5 ton truck. A 1-1/2 ton truck would be a model GTB. This is what you would want copied. Box 10, File 25. for a 1912, 1-1/2 ton model GTB. Also a TDB Box 10, File 33.

Look here. http://catalog.wrhs.org/collections/view?docId=ead/MS5319.xml;chunk.id=c01_1D;brand=default

Edited February 27, 2023 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)