Window Repair or Replacement

[Shootey]

I have a major crack in a rear door window on my 1941 Buick Estate Wagon. I need to either remove and replace the window or stabilize it. The car has all original wood and glass. The doors have never been apart. 
 

I’m afraid to disassemble the door to get the glass out. Should I be?  If the answer is yes, could I use silicone or other product to stabilize the crack so it wouldn’t get worse. The window will roll up and down ok as is and I probably won’t do that much. But it would be good to bond the glass pieces together if I don’t replace the entire window. 
 

I went to Woodies on the Wharf in Santa Cruz yesterday. It was great as usual. 170 plus cars. 

[NewOldWood]

I have no first hand experience with that exact body but I would be surprised if the glass can not be removed. It was most likely installed after the door frame was assembled. If you remove the inside panel and probably some trim, you should probably be able to remove the regulator and window glass.

[Shootey]

Thank you NOW. Certainly removing the inside panel would be a good place to start. 

[blind pew]

I have replaced MANY windows on woodies I have worked on in the past and currently. It all depends on your comfort level and working with your car. I consider window replacement to be a must (modern safety glass throughout) and is not a big deal. You tecnhically don't even need to pull the door off its hinges, but I always do anyway. 

 

It simply removing the door handle and window crank, unscrewing the ash borders, and unscrewing the plywood panel. It is all pretty easy stuff. I don't know why someone WOULD NOT replace a window. Heck, if you are concerned about it, I would bet that any auto glass automotive shop would be willing to install it for you, as it is pretty easy. 

 

Taking it apart gives you a chance to repaint the window mechanism and remove any rust. I always take the window mechanism out, sand it down, re-prime and repaint it with rust inhibitive paint.  You just need some window adhesive to place in the window channel. You can re-grease the window mechanism and make it nice and smooth as well. 

 

I just replaced ALL THE GLASS on a '41 international woodie. Of everything I have had to do, that was one of the easiest tasks. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by blind pew (see edit history)

[46 woodie]

I can't imagine Buick or any other manufacturer building a car that you can not replace broken glass. If you can post a few pictures we might be able to help. My '46 Ford Station Wagon has several pieces that are screwed together that must come apart to replace the glass and I suspect your Buick is the same.

[Shootey]

I’ll take pictures tomorrow. I have a Hercules parts list for the car which has exploded views of the door. I will try upload a phot of the relevant picture. I am guessing I need to remove at least the inside panel, H-4494-R and the inside garnish rail, H-4188-R  

[46 woodie]

It is different than 41-48 Ford as the Buick window riser mechanism is attached to the door panel, unlike the inner structure as in a Ford. After you remove all the perimeter screws you will need to dis-engage the window lift arm from the track. You might also need to remove the window tracks that hold the window in place or the H-4184 door top to remove the glass. I have never done a Buick before, but it doesn't look hard.

[Rexville48]

Shootey,  The door shown in the Hercules parts list is very similar to the rear doors on my 48 Chevrolet wagon that I had disassembled for restoration.  Although my body was made by Fisher, I suspect both are generally the same.  46 Woodie is correct, part number 4184 will also have to be removed as the window slides out through the top.  Also as mentioned, the for and aft vertical window channels should be slid out through the top prior to attempting to remove the glass as it allows you more room to tilt the glass and the attached window regulator.  You might find that the window channels might have a tack or two driven through their back that will need to be removed  to allow them to slide out.  Attached is a picture that might be of some help.  Mike

[Shootey]

Thanks all for your advice. I was a bit fearful that a lot of door disassembly would be needed as the car body has never been taken apart. I will proceed cautiously one step at a time and hope to not break anything. 

[Shootey]

22 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

I can't imagine Buick or any other manufacturer building a car that you can not replace broken glass. If you can post a few pictures we might be able to help. My '46 Ford Station Wagon has several pieces that are screwed together that must come apart to replace the glass and I suspect your Buick is the same.

Here are two shots of the door interior. I will send two more in a second message. 

[Shootey]

22 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

I can't imagine Buick or any other manufacturer building a car that you can not replace broken glass. If you can post a few pictures we might be able to help. My '46 Ford Station Wagon has several pieces that are screwed together that must come apart to replace the glass and I suspect your Buick is the same.

 

[Shootey]

Re 46woodie comment that the riser mechanism is attached to the interior panel, I assume I would not unscrew that mechanism when I unscrew the perimeter screws. And maybe I don’t need to remove the handles either. Thoughts?

[46 woodie]

By the prints that you have posted it looks like the riser mechanism and latch are attached to the interior panel. I would remove the perimeter screws and gently pull it out and see how part number HA-4339 connects to the glass PN HA-4382, it probably slides into a track. There might also be some sort of escutcheon on the rear edge of the door that might hold in the lock assembly.

[Shootey]

46Woodie thanks for your meticulous study. From the parts list picture and the actual interior panel photo we can get a good sense of the construction. As you can see from the two other photos, the Inside top rail, 4184, appears to be tightly fit between the two side posts.  If the top rail needs to be removed I can imagine some resistance. As I said earlier, I’ll go one step at a time and see what’s needed. 

[Joe Cocuzza]

You should not have to remove the top rail or any other actual door wooden part(s) to get the glass out.

 

[46 woodie]

I agree with Joe and don't think that the top rail is removable. I would think removing H-4188 might be the key. Can you provide a couple of pictures of the ends of H-4188?

[Joe Cocuzza]

46WOODIE may be correct about H-4188 but we need to see a couple of pics with the inside door panel removed in order to assess

what is involved.

[Shootey]

I’ll shoot the ends of 4188 today. I’m not going to take the panel off for a few weeks as I have a couple of other tasks to handle first. I appreciate your engagement. You’ve educated me and forced me to study more intently. 

[Shootey]

Here are photos of the ends of H-4188. 

[Joe Cocuzza]

When you get the time remove the door panel and we'll see what's what.

From the last pics H-4188, after removing the panel, shouldn't be a big deal to remove. You would unscrew the door lock knob and I suspect that it is held by other screws under the panel - not sure though until the panel is removed.

Also, if you think all of the mechanisms for the door handle are connected to the door panel you would need to remove the 2 tan colored screws that hold that part of the door mechanism to the door. Or you may be able to disconnect the rod that connects to the other part - where the handle mechanism is.

[Shootey]

Here is the other end of H-4188. 

[46 woodie]

I would also remove the two flathead wood screws on the tan, door lock escutcheon. Once you get the panel off we can get a clearer picture. The suspense is killing me!

[Shootey]

The short story is I got the window out.  Attached are photos of the inside of the interior panel, the inside garnish rail, H-4188 and the inside of the door. I’ll send a shot of the removed glass in a separate transmission. 
 

I first unscrewed the interior panel but it dangled pending unhooking of the window lift and the door latch mechanisms. I also began removing the garnish rail. The hardest part of removing the garnish rail was getting the lock button rod out of the way. There were two screws holding the garnish rail in place which were accessible once the interior panel was slid down a bit. The garnish rail slid out with a little tapping to get it started. 
 

The interior panel got a bit hung up by the door latch rod. Once I got that rod disconnected I was then able to slide the interior panel rearward and off. 
 

To get the glass out I had to remove the rear vertical window channel. The glass removal was made easier due to a large piece of the glass having fallen out as you may see in the glass photo I will send separately. 
 

So now I can get new glass and clean up everything. There was dust from the ‘40’s everywhere. I hope I can

remember the steps to get stuff apart to assist in the reinstallation. I would welcome any suggestions. You may have. 
 

Thanks for all your help. 

[Shootey]

Here is a photo of the removed glass. I’m intrigued about the number 573 written on both the inside of the door and the inside of the interior panel. The body number is 632 of 850 so 573 doesn’t seem to tie to that. Maybe they matched the door parts for later reassembly after applying finish. Just a guess. 

[Joe Cocuzza]

Good job.

Don't forget to save all of that 1940's dirt/dust. It may become valuable some day....😉😉😉

Anyway, I think, like you said, the 573 # is probably for reference during assembly.

[46 woodie]

Shootey, when I replaced the door panels in my '46 Ford Station Wagon, I had numerals scribed on the inside of all the panels also. I would guess that they might be some sort of production numbers for ether the car itself or the department that made the panels. Now that you have the door panel off it's a good time for a coat of varnish on the inside of the door and to tighten all the wood screws. Also, now you can lubricate the lockset and window riser mechanism. Great job!

[Shootey]

Thanks for the help. Should I varnish everything inside and do you have a suggestion on the age old issue of varnish brand? 

[46 woodie]

Shootey, what ever brand of varnish you are using for your exterior finish is fine.  I used Epifanes varnish on my car. You want to protect all that raw wood from Mother Nature. Also, now is the time to make sure that any drain holes are clear. I'm sure you don't plan on driving in the rain, but it does happen. I would use "white grease" on the riser track and gear.

[Shootey]

Thanks. The doors are wide open on the bottom so no drain holes. The body was refinished by the prior owner 20 or so years ago and it is still fine. 

[Tom Boehm]

Epifanes would work fine but for the inside of your doors I think Minwax Helmsman from Home Depot or the hardware store would suffice. It is locally available and a lot less expensive. The purpose is just to seal the inside against moisture. It will never get UV sunlight or weather inside the door. 

[Shootey]

Thanks for the help on varnish. I assume that urethane is ok which is what the minwax product is. Since nothing will show I imagine all that matters is sealing the wood by any means. 

[Shootey]

I want to replace the glass channel. The sides and top are U shaped and should be available from various sources. But the bottom channel has no bottom so the glass can retract downward. One side is attached to the inside garnish rail, 4188 and the other side is attached to the belt rail, 4166. Where can I procure the material for the bottom channel? Must I use the U shaped material and cut it? Thanks. 

[Tom Boehm]

I'm not sure which part you are looking for but Restoration Specialties has lots of what I think you are looking for. 

[Shootey]

Yes Tom.  I talked to Restoration Specialties and they directed me to part YM3 called a belt weatherstrip. I should have looked there before I posed the question. Thank you.