Question about 1930 Pierce Arrow fuel pump installation

[Joe Cocuzza]

When I go to reinstall the fuel pump back onto the 30 Pierce, is there anything "special" I need to know or does it just go back in by inserting the arm into the block and putting the bolts in? 

Anything else?

[edinmass]

The pump probably has a spacer..........depends on what you are running. A/C, Stewart, or something else?

[Joe Cocuzza]

44 minutes ago, edinmass said:

The pump probably has a spacer..........depends on what you are running. A/C, Stewart, or something else?

No spacer. At least there wasn't one when I took it off.

Running an AC pump Model A

There's nothing to set.....cam, etc correct?

I did crank the engine over while the pump was out - hindsight says I probably should've put the pump back on first BUT......

The arm should just go up into the block and ride on the cam, right?

[edinmass]

That’s a replacement pump, post a photo please. I would expect a spacer made of phenolic with steel sleeves. 

[Joe Cocuzza]

Ok now I've opened the "can of worms" 

Here's a couple of pictures Ed.

BTW, are original pumps available??

[edinmass]

Let me check.....29 was a AC Type A with the hat. 30 is a Stewart Warner.......so the pump you have may need a spacer.....let me check my notes. 👍

[Joe Cocuzza]

Thanks Ed.

FYI - the car had run, before I bought it, as it was set up - without a spacer.

[wayne sheldon]

Follow Ed M's advice. 

I don't know Pierce Arrow specifically, however, typically, given the angles that the pump arm runs opposed to the camshaft, spacing outward is not a one-to-one proposition.

Outward position is critical for the pump to operate properly. The diaphragm needs to operate such that it moves freely without overextending itself. If it gets pressed too far beyond its comfort zone, the diaphragm will fail in a very short time. Even slightly too close can make the pump unreliable. Generally, with the camshaft oriented at its lowest area to the pump arm? The pump, when tightened down fully should put some very slight pressure on the arm relative to the pump's "at rest" and out of the motor position. It is possible that it should not put any pressure on the arm in order to not overextend the pressure on the diaphragm when the camshaft is raised to its highest position relative to the pump.

I ran into this stuff a few years back with a replacement pump on a not quite so old motor.

[edinmass]

Checked it today, with that pump and arm, no spacer needed.......👍👍

[Joe Cocuzza]

Thanks Ed.

Now, can you answer the question about the procedure to install it?

Does it just go in straight and then the arm goes in and sits on the cam or do you have to "twist" (for lack of a better word) the pump after putting it in at an angle? There isn't any special position the cam should be in, correct? That's the best way to describe what I am trying to ask.

I did install it but I think it isn't "pumping".

It probably would have been so much easier to do all of this while the oil pan was down (because I was able to see the pump arm on the cam) but I am NOT dropping that pan again.

[edinmass]

It just slips in. Don’t use any sealer on the gaskets. And be careful about tightening the bolts evenly or the pump casting will fracture. Also, no Teflon tape on the car anywhere. Thread sealer is fine in small amounts. Over tighten the fittings and the casting will split. Use a light touch. Also, the car should have an electric pump installed to prime and push through vapor lock. Back by the tank. I can walk you through that one after you have it running.👍

[Joe Cocuzza]

20 minutes ago, edinmass said:

It just slips in. Don’t use any sealer on the gaskets. And be careful about tightening the bolts evenly or the pump casting will fracture. Also, no Teflon tape on the car anywhere. Thread sealer is fine in small amounts. Over tighten the fittings and the casting will split. Use a light touch. Also, the car should have an electric pump installed to prime and push through vapor lock. Back by the tank. I can walk you through that one after you have it running.👍

Thanks again Ed.

That's how I did it and I primed the pump by filling the bowl but I cannot get anything out of the outlet. Maybe there's air in it, like you said. I'm not too worried as I will figure it out eventually. And, I will put the electric pump on it when I know for sure the car will run. 

As far as getting it running I'm still working on that part. It's very difficult working alone. I cannot watch and see what's going on while the engine is cranking because I am in the car. It would be better to have a "helper" cranking the car so that I can fiddle under the hood while that's happening. I have gotten it to "fire" while cranking so I know it will run. I know I have spark at all 8 plugs (I checked each one). 

Also, I am not familiar at all with what position the distributor advance/choke should be in, etc....Never had a car this old with all that stuff on it.

I suppose it should be like any other car - choke it if it is cold, etc....

Thanks Ed (and everyone else)for all your help. We will get this car running/moving eventually.

[edinmass]

Call me tonight, I can give you a few easy pointers.....

[Mark Wetherbee]

You are in better hands with Ed’s advice, but this might be of interest… it’s the Technical Reference Data Sheet for the SW pump listed as being correct for the 1930-31 8-cylinder PA. I have the pump packed away along with a few other parts for the next caretaker of my 31. I went with an electric pump and upsized lines in place of the mechanical one.

[Joe Cocuzza]

22 minutes ago, Mark Wetherbee said:

You are in better hands with Ed’s advice, but this might be of interest… it’s the Technical Reference Data Sheet for the SW pump listed as being correct for the 1930-31 8-cylinder PA. I have the pump packed away along with a few other parts for the next caretaker of my 31. I went with an electric pump and upsized lines in place of the mechanical one.

Thanks Mark

[Mark Wetherbee]

These should help too. The arm is numbered 65519, the body isP-62600 and the assembly number is on the block side of the cover. I believe the Studebaker President series used the same arm and body so it should fit if you can find one. I’ve only seen a couple available since buying my car three years ago but I don’t think everyone would know the application if they have one.

[SC38dls]

Joe if you want to try a Studebaker pump try Steven Allen’s 352-472-9369 he’s in FL and has a good supply of NOS parts. He has had everything I’ve needed for my 38 Studebaker 

dave s 

[Joe Cocuzza]

43 minutes ago, SC38dls said:

Joe if you want to try a Studebaker pump try Steven Allen’s 352-472-9369 he’s in FL and has a good supply of NOS parts. He has had everything I’ve needed for my 38 Studebaker 

dave s 

Gave him a call - no good

Thanks anyway

[Joe Cocuzza]

While I was searching/calling I was given the name of a place (straight-eight.com) that has or can get or can recast fuel pump bodies. They have them for the Stewart Warner pump that is original to the 30 Pierce Arrows along with other parts, too. I called them and the gentleman was very courteous and spent the time to walk me through the website so I was able to view the pump bodies.