neil morse Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Looks good (and familiar) to me! Great work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailheadBob Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) On 2/3/2022 at 2:50 PM, neil morse said: On my '41, there is no seal for the support tube. The tube is held in place by a spring washer. I thought I saw a picture from "CARS" or "Bobs" that had a clutch support with rubber looking material on the inside of tube area to aid in sealing. Edit: Plug, transmission case-expansion group # 4.103 part # 103892 (3/4") to plug selector shaft hole (Dorman #550-007) AND # 103893 (7/8") to plug 2nd + 3rd shifter shaft hole (Dorman # 550-014) ALSO called welch plug. ALSO see /https://goodson.com/products/freeze-plug-concave-cup 3/4" #960750cc & 7/8" # 96-875cc Edited March 11, 2022 by NailheadBob added information (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Looks good. Question, when you are spinning the input shaft is the shaft trying to walk it's way out of the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, avgwarhawk said: Looks good. Question, when you are spinning the input shaft is the shaft trying to walk it's way out of the case? Thanks. The input shaft stays in place and doesn't try to walk out, but it does have in/out play. If memory serves me right it was like that when I disassembled it also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 14 minutes ago, Justinlb said: Thanks. The input shaft stays in place and doesn't try to walk out, but it does have in/out play. If memory serves me right it was like that when I disassembled it also. Yes, the input shaft on mine has play in and out. Once installed the bellhousing keeps it where it belongs. The reason I ask about walking out, the 54 3 speed I have on my bench when spun will begin to push the input shaft out. Really odd. I need to take another look at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Yes, the bearing on the input shaft is a slip fit, so the shaft is free to move in and out. As Chris says, once the transmission is installed, the shaft is kept in place. But this is why that spring washer is so important. The spring washer on my car had been improperly installed and broke into two pieces when the the transmission was bolted onto the bell housing. As a result, the shaft was able to move just enough to cause the transmission to pop out of third gear when braking on a downgrade. That's why I had to pull mine apart. Once I got a new spring washer properly seated, the problem was solved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) On 3/7/2022 at 10:39 AM, neil morse said: Looks good (and familiar) to me! Great work. Neil I noticed that you had a seal for the rear of the transmission/shaft, I can't find it anywhere. Did you pick it up at a bearing shop? The manuals kinda skip over the torque ball assembly and make it sound like the only thing sealing it is the bearing. Which doesn't seem right to me. Edited March 8, 2022 by Justinlb (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Hi Justin: I have to go back and look at my thread to refresh my memory. But I can tell you that all the seals we used on my car were purchased from Bob's Automobilia. I think the rear seal you're talking about was part of the torque ball gasket kit from Bob's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, neil morse said: Hi Justin: I have to go back and look at my thread to refresh my memory. But I can tell you that all the seals we used on my car were purchased from Bob's Automobilia. I think the rear seal you're talking about was part of the torque ball gasket kit from Bob's. my kit did not come with one. I did find this though, the outer diameter is the same as my trans but it says its 1942-52 50 series (maybe the inner diameter is a different size?). I might give it a shot if you can't find anything. Thanks for all your help Neil, redoing this trans would be much harder if you hadn't documented all that you have. Edited March 8, 2022 by Justinlb (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) You know, now that I've looked at the list from the torque ball kit I got from Bob's, I don't think that seal was included. I think I separately purchased exactly the one you show above. I'm not sure why they don't list '41 50 series, but I'm pretty sure that's the one I used and that it will fit. Edited March 8, 2022 by neil morse (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) On 3/8/2022 at 11:40 AM, Justinlb said: my kit did not come with one. I did find this though, the outer diameter is the same as my trans but it says its 1942-52 50 series (maybe the inner diameter is a different size?). I might give it a shot if you can't find anything. Thanks for all your help Neil, redoing this trans would be much harder if you hadn't documented all that you have. Got the seal in the mail already. Just in case anyone else runs into this problem, the seal shown above does fit older 50 series than it lists. Edited March 11, 2022 by Justinlb (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) Another thing, if you buy the jeep clutch kit from cars watch out; the throw out bearing doesn't actually sit correctly with the fork. I just bent the forks out about a quarter inch and problem solved. Edited March 13, 2022 by Justinlb (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) Clutch, pressure plate and transmission are bolted in. Talk about exhausting lifting up the trans, maybe I should invest in a transmission jack. Getting everything buttoned back together now 👍 Edited March 13, 2022 by Justinlb (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) I use a trans jack that I purchased at harbor freight tools. Inexpensive. Worked great. Edited March 13, 2022 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailheadBob Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Transmission looks great, as @avgwarhawk said transmission jack is the way to remove and reinstall, I acquired for free Walker brand from the 1950's era transmission jack that was gear driven that tilted side to side and front to rear from a closed down Buick dealer works great. A friend and BCA member, wife worked for a bank in Oak Park, Illinois and the bank purchased the closed Buick dealer building and property and was going to demolish the building, and the president of the bank let us go in the weekend before the demolition and take what ever we wanted, 6 of us went in and, I took the transmission jack and parts catalogs and rack that held the catalogs, another friend took a very long porcelain neon Buick lube sign and front end alignment cabinet door, that was decorated with 6 hood emblems from a 1950 Buick that were pained over and when paint removed the chrome and plastic were like brand new, also and a room filled with Kent Moore tools, we were like 6 kids in a candy store. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share Posted March 15, 2022 (edited) i have a question, is the 3/4-1 inch lash the amount of play it has and the rest is disengaging the clutch? My pedal isnt coming up all the way, it kind of rests in the down position.( Therefore pushing the fork) Could I have a worn out spring? Edited March 15, 2022 by Justinlb (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Does the pedal come all the way up if you pull on it? I had a similar problem with my car. The pedal would not come all the way up, which left the throw-out bearing spinning which, in turn, made an annoying chirping sound when the car was in gear. I got pretty good at pulling the pedal the rest of the way up with my toe, but that obviously wasn't a solution. The problem turned out to be calcified old grease on the "hook" you can see in the diagram that connects the spring to the pedal. If the hook can no longer pivot freely on the post where it attaches to the pedal, it prevents the pedal from coming all the way up. It's a hard area to reach, but I was able to get access to it from under the car and clean it up. I used the "witch's brew" of half acetone and half ATF and soaked it for a couple of days. Then I was able to get a wire brush up there and get rid of the old grease and free it up. That solved the problem. (And I also, of course, replaced the throw-out bearing when I later did my transmission rebuild.) If you think this might be your problem, I have some photos which might help. Neil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 40 minutes ago, neil morse said: Does the pedal come all the way up if you pull on it? I had a similar problem with my car. The pedal would not come all the way up, which left the throw-out bearing spinning which, in turn, made an annoying chirping sound when the car was in gear. I got pretty good at pulling the pedal the rest of the way up with my toe, but that obviously wasn't a solution. The problem turned out to be calcified old grease on the "hook" you can see in the diagram that connects the spring to the pedal. If the hook can no longer pivot freely on the post where it attaches to the pedal, it prevents the pedal from coming all the way up. It's a hard area to reach, but I was able to get access to it from under the car and clean it up. I used the "witch's brew" of half acetone and half ATF and soaked it for a couple of days. Then I was able to get a wire brush up there and get rid of the old grease and free it up. That solved the problem. (And I also, of course, replaced the throw-out bearing when I later did my transmission rebuild.) If you think this might be your problem, I have some photos which might help. Neil My pedal does come all the way up, but doesn't stay up, it falls back down and rests on the linkage. I'll check out the hook though, i do have about an inch of grease everywhere under my car. (Good rust protection) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Okay, that sounds a little different. In my case, the pedal would not come all the way up on its own, but after you pulled it up, it stayed there. In case it's helpful, here are a "before and after" of what the "hook" looked like on my car when I had the problem. Before: After: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 I don't understand what you are experiencing. The fork rod is adjusted to allow the recommended lash? I had to adjust the fork rod quite a bit to get a good pedal and lash. In fact, I thought the rod would not adjust enough. But it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 17 minutes ago, Justinlb said: My pedal does come all the way up, but doesn't stay up, it falls back down and rests on the linkage. I'll check out the hook though, i do have about an inch of grease everywhere under my car. (Good rust protection) Is the return spring in the right place and up to the task? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said: Is the return spring in the right place and up to the task? There's only 1 spring on the entire assembly, right? I'm pretty sure my linkage is adjusted properly, it's just that the pedal falls forward causing the fork to push on the throw out bearing. I think it's time a degrease everything and take a hard look at it. It's likely the reason my last throw out bearing went bad. Edited March 16, 2022 by Justinlb (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 I'm thinking the spring is not in the correct position. The 54 set up has the spring attached where the push rod sits. The spring physically pulls the fork forward thus keeping the throw out bearing off of the pressure plate. Looking at the set up for your Buick the spring appears to be pulling the pedal forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 Ended up adjusting the pedal from a screw at the bottom of the clutch linkage assembly and the pedal started working properly. However the fork still was not pulling the bearing away from the pressure plate. After staring at this thing for awhile and pressing the clutch pedal in and out, I found out that this linkage is worn. It doesn't have much room for error until it stops pulling the fork back altogether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Would a small return type spring attached somewhere in the bracket help in keeping the bearing off the pressure plate? Or remove the linkage to see if the play can be repaired. Edited March 18, 2022 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 As Chris says, you could add a small spring. My '64 GP has an 'anti-rattle' spring which is basically the same thing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 Got everything put back together and drove it out of the garage and around the block, shifted amazing, clutch works great, but there's a knocking sound from the trans and it's bothering me. It's not too loud but noticeable. Could the sound be from using gears from 2 separate transmissions and needs to break in? The operation of it is great and it doesn't leak. Opinions would be greatly appreciated. I thought it was the pressure plate or clutch(that's why the cover is off) Here's a video with sound: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Does the knocking noise stop when the clutch pedal is pushed to the floor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 3 hours ago, avgwarhawk said: Does the knocking noise stop when the clutch pedal is pushed to the floor? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailheadBob Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 11:01 PM, Justinlb said: Another thing, if you buy the jeep clutch kit from cars watch out; the throw out bearing doesn't actually sit correctly with the fork. I just bent the forks out about a quarter inch and problem solved. Could it be that when you bent the forks that somehow it is not sitting properly and therefore not sitting flush on the pressure plate? can you visually see when engine running and making noise that you describe if bearing is touching then not touching causing the noise? Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, NailheadBob said: Could it be that when you bent the forks that somehow it is not sitting properly and therefore not sitting flush on the pressure plate? can you visually see when engine running and making noise that you describe if bearing is touching then not touching causing the noise? Bob I actually took that bearing out, bent the forks back and put a NOS part in. I didn't like the way the new one sat on the support tube or the fact that I had to weld the old clip on it just to make it work. But the bearing isn't making the noise. The dull knock noise is coming from the transmission, maybe u-joint? (I hope not) EDIT: ok not U joint, it wouldn't rotate in neutral. That means it's gotta be either the new input shaft bearing or the gears. Edited March 28, 2022 by Justinlb (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 6 hours ago, Justinlb said: Yes If I'm not mistaken the cluster gear constantly spins until the clutch pedal is pushed to the floor. So, the cluster gear is making the noise while at idle IMO. Mine makes a low grumbling noise while idling. It stops when the clutch pedal is engaged. The question is, drive it until it blows or goes 100k miles. But some more easy miles on it IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said: But some more easy miles on it IMO. I agree; be gentle with it and pay attention to any changes. Hopefully, if it's just new parts 'getting acquainted' to each other it will quiet down. Can you install a magnetic drain plug? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinlb Posted April 25, 2022 Author Share Posted April 25, 2022 I've put around 300 miles on the car since I've finished it. (The weather has been amazing) No issues at all, it has quieted way down and shifts nicely. I did put a small magnet inside the drain plug. Changed the oil after 100 miles. I should have done it sooner; talk about sparkly gear oil! Changed again around another 100 and there wasn't much that time around. It looks like a success all around. Thank you all, I couldn't have done it without your help. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Prieto Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 I'm looking into buying a 1947 buick super, it's in need of a clutch. My question is, why do I have to drop the rear end to access the transmission? Wouldn't it be easier to pull the motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Prieto Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 On 12/11/2021 at 6:56 PM, Jim Nelson said: There is no easy way. As I remember, you will have to move the axel rearward about 3" min. That will let you disconnect the torque tube and axel from the back of the tranny. then disconnect the shift linkage and follow the rest using the service manual. If you need more / better instructions, I found earlier service manuals sometimes fill in the sections that may be unclear. I personally have 6 I think. 35, 37, 38, 47 and 53. So I have myself covered on any method presented. I am looking into buying a 1947 buick, it's in need of a clutch. Why would I have to drop the rear end to gain access? Wouldn't it be easier to pull the engine out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 The short answer is no, it would definitely not be easier to take the engine out. Undoing the rear end and pulling it back about 4 inches is not that difficult a job. Lifting the engine out is a major undertaking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Prieto Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Wouldn't it be easier to pull the motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 On 3/31/2024 at 1:34 AM, Tony Prieto said: I'm looking into buying a 1947 buick super, it's in need of a clutch. My question is, why do I have to drop the rear end to access the transmission? Wouldn't it be easier to pull the motor? No. Due to the torque tube. Just pull it all back to access the clutch. A lot of work lifting the motor out, with the transmission in place. Are you familiar with torque tubes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgreen Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 The 1940 is different than the '41 at this location. If the keyed section below is worn or damaged, then you will have slop in the clutch pedal. The brake pedal has a return spring so that pedal is not affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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