Is my switch pitch switching pitch?

[jframe]

With key on, engine off, I can touch the little microswitch with my finger and hear the trans solenoid engage on my '65. However, when I move the throttle using the rod that come out of the firewall, NOT the one closer to the carb, it doesn't touch and engage the microswitch. Not super familiar with this neat feature, but was wondering if is possibly out of adjustment, and if so, how to adjust it without royally screwing up a pretty good running car? 

[RivNut]

My '65 is in boxes and on shelves right now but from what I gather,the microswitch to which you are referring is used to switch the torque converter into high stall when the car is idling, as when sitting at a stop light, to prevent the car from creeping without exerting a lot pressure on the brake pedal. 

[gungeey]

theres a rubber bushing in the joint of the accelerator rods, right where the switch is. if its missing or distorted the switch wont work.

If its there and looks good you may need a manual tweak. The switch should click with the lightest touch of your accelerator pedal

[jframe]

26 minutes ago, gungeey said:

theres a rubber bushing in the joint of the accelerator rods, right where the switch is. if its missing or distorted the switch wont work.

If its there and looks good you may need a manual tweak. The switch should click with the lightest touch of your accelerator pedal

I'll have to look for that tomorrow. Don't think I saw one, but I will try to post up a pic and let you be the judge. Just seems to me that when I pull the throttle rod at the firewall with the key on it would contact and engage the switch.

[jframe]

The bushing appears to be there, however it doesn't make contact with the switch when operating the throttle by hand.

[JZRIV]

One of the 2 mounting holes is slotted to allow for adjustment. This switch is activated with the accelerator fully disengaged. It should deactivate with very little movement of the accelerator pedal.

[jframe]

11 minutes ago, JZRIV said:

One of the 2 mounting holes is slotted to allow for adjustment. This switch is activated with the accelerator fully disengaged. It should deactivate with very little movement of the accelerator pedal.

So with the car at idle, the switch should be DEPRESSED, and when you step on the gas, the button is released? 

[JZRIV]

Yes because the spring on the linkage at firewall is "pushing" the throttle closed which acts to push the switch lever against the bushing thereby making the switch. at the lightest push on the pedal it "pulls" the lever away from the bushing allowing the switch to deactivate.

Listening for the audible click in the transmission confirms switches and solenoid are working properly. Then the you'll need to insure the torque converter is working to change blade angle. I diagnosed a bad converter on a 67 I had years ago.   

[jframe]

Well I took the two tiny screws loose at the microswitch and it moved JUST enough to depress the switch against the linkage til it clicked down. I held it there then tightened the screws down. Doesn't seem like it creeps near as much and seems to take less pressure on the brakes, especially on a cold fast idle now. Also seemed to have a little better takeoff when warm. I'll drive it more and see how it goes.

[RockinRiviDad]

My understanding is that it doesn’t affect takeoff. Once u depress the accelerator pedal with any amount of pressure the micro switch goes back to what it was like when u had it out of adjustment.
 

I drive with mine out of adjustment. It feels better to me. To each his own. 
 

But now I am considering added the hot rod switch (for lack of a better term) under the dash. 
 

Wiring diagram courtesy of Russ Martin’s website 
 

[RivNut]

David is correct. As soon as you step on the accelerator, the high stall that was preventing the creep is disengaged.  You are again in low stall until you go to WOT where the high stall is once again engaged along with your kick down. If you like the idea of having the torque converter in high stall during acceleration, then you'll have to manually wire it. 

[RockinRiviDad]

U may NOT like the idea of being in high stall during acceleration. I didn’t. I tried it & HATED it.

 

Zip tie the micro switch in the depressed position & go for a drive. It’s an old switch. Don’t kill it by cranking down on the zip tie. U can see it doesn’t need much pressure to hold it. So be gentle with the zip tie. 

 

It felt like I was starting off from a stop in 3rd gear. It felt super sluggish. Excuse my description, I don’t have the proper terms. But all torque converters are effective at “X” RPM/MPH (I don’t know the numbers). High stall from a dead stop our converters are useless. But with the hot rod switch in place u can flip the switch to give u high stall while driving & it’s like another kickdown/passing gear whenever u want. 
 

I hope I explained that correctly 
 

 

[RivNut]

High stall on acceleration should give you the same kick in the seat of your pants that it gives to you when it engages with the kick-down.  That's why the big time drag racers use high stall converters in their cars.  Stall speed is when your torque converter is finally tight (not like today's lock-up converters.)  It's similar to sliding the clutch. the engine revs into a higher power band so at low speeds, you get the benefit of the power you get from the higher rpm's.  Once you've maxed that out and the car is moving fast enough and the rpm's are up, you "switch" the torque converter into low stall so you're not getting as much of a loss though fluid driven gears.  Back in the mid 60's when "stock" cars were being run at the drags, there was always the war between the SS Mopars and the SS/A Mopars.  SS was Super Stock and those cars were running 4 speed transmissions.  SS/A was Super Stock / Automatic and those cars were running modified Torqueflite transmissions.  The SS/A cars gave up something in hp because it takes a certain amount of hp to turn an automatic, but they made up for in in consistency.  No blown clutches or missed shifts.  Check out some of the old Ramcharger Dodge race cars. Now if you're really looking to get some ZIP off the line with your 425 nailhead and ST400 "switch pitch" transmission, install the smaller torque converter from the ST300 transmission and wire it to work manually.  

[RockinRiviDad]

Are u saying that from a complete stop & with my zip tie depressing my micro switch (high stall) when I try driving away at a “normal” rate of speed I should feel the kick like when the kickdown kicks in at high speed? NOT on my car. Is that a troubleshooting clue telling me the vanes in my convertor aren’t switching??

 

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by RockinRiviDad (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Easy to tell, with the igntion switch on but the engine not running, you should be able to hear the solenoid in the transmission click when the converter changes pitch.  You'll have to be under the car to hear it. A mechanics stethoscope would help.  For lack of a stethoscope, a long break over bar will work. Your ear on one end, the other on the solenoid.  Sound travels much better through iron.  Didn't you ever put your ear to a railroad track to "hear" if a train was coming? 

[RockinRiviDad]

Thank u. But I don’t need any of those suggestions to hear my solenoid click. I can hear that while laying on my fender & pushing on the micro switch. I can hear the solenoid click over the micro switch click. It’s apparent that my solenoid clicks. But that doesn’t tell me if my vanes are switching pitch

[jframe]

I know one thing: when I took those little screws loose, there is so little room for adjustment that I had to clamp it pretty tight with one hand, tighten the screws down with the other, and use my other hand to hold my little led flashlight to see what I was doing. I see an led headlight in my future.

[RivNut]

Hmmm?

Clamp it tight with one hand  - 1

Tighten down with one hand - 1

Hold flashlight with one hand - 1

                                                     3           

[RockinRiviDad]

Be careful. Those micro switches will crack from over tightening. Mine was cracked for a long time from what looks like over tightening by the previous owner. The years of heat under the hood dried them out & makes them brittle.
 

What I recently discovered, when I fixed my cracked switch & tried to finally adjust it right, was that the wires to the micro switch are also dried out & firm/stiff. The wires run down along side the throttle linkage coming out of my firewall. There is a clip (looks stock/original) that holds the wire to the linkage. The wire is so firm/stiff that I noticed I was able to push up on the wire & it actually held my micro switch in the adjusted position with the screw loose. So I added a couple of zip ties (I like zip ties 😆), then tighten down my micro switch 

[jframe]

5 hours ago, RivNut said:

Hmmm?

Clamp it tight with one hand  - 1

Tighten down with one hand - 1

Hold flashlight with one hand - 1

                                                     3           

I promise my Mom and Dad weren't brother and sister, even though I live in Alabama. 😁

[jframe]

5 hours ago, RockinRiviDad said:

Be careful. Those micro switches will crack from over tightening. Mine was cracked for a long time from what looks like over tightening by the previous owner. The years of heat under the hood dried them out & makes them brittle.
 

What I recently discovered, when I fixed my cracked switch & tried to finally adjust it right, was that the wires to the micro switch are also dried out & firm/stiff. The wires run down along side the throttle linkage coming out of my firewall. There is a clip (looks stock/original) that holds the wire to the linkage. The wire is so firm/stiff that I noticed I was able to push up on the wire & it actually held my micro switch in the adjusted position with the screw loose. So I added a couple of zip ties (I like zip ties 😆), then tighten down my micro switch 

I know, plastic gets brittle; I just snugged them down pretty good. The wiring looks like it's never been touched; it's still tied to the linkage down the firewall. I DID look and find a switch on eBay that they were asking 150 bucks for.

[RivNut]

2 hours ago, jframe said:

I promise my Mom and Dad weren't brother and sister, even though I live in Alabama. 😁

1st cousins?🤠

[jframe]

12 minutes ago, RivNut said:

1st cousins?🤠

Not even close. Dad was a Tennessee redneck and my Mom was a Serbian born and raised in Detroit lol. I'm an odd combo.

[EmTee]

By the way, when I disassembled and cleaned the kickdown switch on my '67 Riviera I noticed that the high-stall transition actually occurs BEFORE the kickdown to 2nd gear.  This allows the engine to 'spool-up' first, which not only helps when 2nd gear comes in, but may be enough alone to obviate the need for the downshift in some cases.