1910 Era wheel, how does the rim keep from spinning?

[1937hd45]

Picked this up today, very nice 1910 era wood wheel, from a mid to large size car based on the 12 hub bolts. What type rim is this and what keeps it from spinning? Bob 

[1912Staver]

It's possibly a Kelsey demountable , non- detachable, but Layden probably knows for sure.  There is possibly just side rings { inner and outer } are missing ,the black painted surface would be against the tube. The inner ring would be a continuous ring either turned in for clincher tires or turned out for straight side. The outer side ring is split right

where that lock device is riveted and each end has a tab that projects through the rim band.

 At least one version has a separate clamp that prevents the two tabs from pulling back through the rim band.  But yours may be a variation with the riveted on retainer. Or it could be a different maker altogether , just similar to Kelsey in construction. What diameter is it ? Unfortunately the oldest catalog I have is 1923 and it does not

cover any of the non - detachable wheels. 

 

Greg in Canada

Edited November 10, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Layden B]

First to Greg,

I think you have detachable and demountable switched.

Detachable rims have a ring or other method of getting the tire off the rim without stretching it over the side as plain clinchers are done on most Model T Fords.

Demountable rims come off the wheel with the tire on them. You carry an inflated rim/tire assembly as a spare.

Those wheel with neither feature are called plain.

Some wheels do both, they are demountable because you carry an inflated spare on a 5th rim AND you take the tire off the rim with a ring. They are called detachable demountable of course.

 

Second to Bob,

This is a Stanweld  brand "Lever lock" type rim, their No.52. There was a ring that went around the rim in the groove, it had 2 tabs on the ends that went thru the rim and were held in place with the lever still remaining on the rim.  This held the tire from coming off the rim. This is a detachable type rim ( non-demountable) and does not come off the wheel. Largest user of these was Overland.

It is restrained from spinning on the wooden wheel by being riveted to the wooden felloe.

 

[1937hd45]

Thanks Layden, still don't understand how the tire and rim keep from spinning on the wheel & rim in my photo. Good guess on the Overland. Bob 

Edited November 11, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Gunsmoke]

He mentions that the steel outer rim is riveted to the wooden fellow at regular intervals, or may be secured with countersunk screws. This is same system used on wagon wheels of the period, the outer steel band is fastened to the wood fellows at regular intervals, usually using a bolt countersunk flush into the steel tread. 

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, Gunsmoke said:

He mentions that the steel outer rim is riveted to the wooden fellow at regular intervals, or may be secured with countersunk screws. This is same system used on wagon wheels of the period, the outer steel band is fastened to the wood fellows at regular intervals, usually using a bolt countersunk flush into the steel tread. 

There are TWO rims, the one attacked to the wooden   fellow that is on my wheel in photo one. Whatever the rim is that has the tire mounted to it slides over my rim, how does it keep from spinning?

 

Bob

[1912Staver]

You are absolutely right Layden, I have my detachable and demountable confused / interchanged .  But Bob there is only one rim, the one you have on your fellow.  All that is missing are the two side rings. The tire must be deflated and the outer side ring removed to take the tire  and tube off.   

Thanks for the I.D. Layden, now that I know the numbers I see my 1923 rim catalog shows the Stanweld  51 but not the 50 or 52.. But the illustration isn't nearly as good as the one you have provided.

 

Greg

Edited November 11, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Whether the rim is detachable, or demountable, clincher, or straight side? Tires of that era were high pressure. The high pressure is more critical with clinchers with the lack of wire or strong cord running around inside the bead. The clincher is made to be stretched over the side of the rim and then "clinch" under the rolled over side of the rim to hold it on. But even straight sides, with wire or cord inside the bead on these early wheels need to have high pressure to hold the tire firm. It is in part, the 50 to 75 psi that keeps the tire from spinning on the rim. A model T, with 30X3.5 clincher tires, needs about 65 psi in the rears, otherwise the tire will slip due to driving and braking forces until the valve stem shears of the tube. Straight sides, with slightly more ridged sidewalls, can get by with only maybe 10  psi less.

[1937hd45]

OK, detachable outer ring, not demountable as a 1919-27 Ford. Bob 

[1912Staver]

That's correct. My 1912 Staver Chicago has a similar arrangement { different rim maker } as standard equipment except it's a bigger car than an Overland and  for some reason Staver went

all the way up to 28 inch rims. I got some from the leftover's pile of an early White restoration but no side rings yet, just a pair of front wheels in the same state as your wheel and a pair of rear rim bands. Big wheels ! and very limited tire availability.

The optional rim's in Staver's catalog are  27 inch Firestone demountable / detachable. A better set up especially from a tire choice point of view and I have been piecing a set together for a long time. Lots of pieces in the Firestone set up.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited November 11, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Thanks for all the info, now to find a new home fore it. Bob