1951 Lincoln temperature sending units?

[Matt Harwood]

Does anyone know if the Lincoln "big" 337 cubic inch flathead V8 used in the early '50s Cosmopolitans use the same temperature sending units as Ford and/or Mercury?  I have a client who recently bought one from me and the temperature gauge is pegged. It used to wake up and work properly with the ignition on, but now it just stays pegged all the time. I'm trying to get the gauge working for him and the first place to look for trouble is the sending units. I can't find any specifically for these Lincolns, but it uses the same setup as the Ford/Mercury flatheads with one sensor in each cylinder head--on the right, it is a single terminal unit and on the left there's a two-terminal sending unit. They're connected and then one wire goes to the gauge. Here are photos:

 

 

  

 

 

 

Can anyone confirm or deny that the Ford or Mercury sending units will work in this Lincoln? I don't have the car here anymore, so I'm gambling a hundred bucks (these sending units are $50 each).

 

Thanks!

[Joseph P. Indusi]

I cannot confirm that the Ford/ Mercury temperature sensors are used in the 51 Lincoln but I suspect that they are.  I believe these are King-Seeley type sensors that are not simply resistors that change resistance with a change in temperature.   There are a few Ford websites that explain how these work but I cannot put my hands on my files right now but will check in a few days.  

Joe

[19tom40]

I am not sure if the sending units are the same as Ford, I can look it up on Monday.

 

The first question I would ask is "Did you use Teflon tape on the threads  when you installed them?"  If the answer is yes, have him remove the tape as it is not allowing the sending units to ground properly causing an open circuit.

 

If the answer is no, trouble shoot the problem using the following steps.

 

To troubleshoot the problem,  ground the wire from the dash gauge and then turn on the ignition switch for a moment, the gauge needle should move to cold.

If it doesn't move towards cold, the problem is at the gauge end  (loose wire or bad gauge)

 

If it does move, then by pass the sending unit with 2 terminals by attaching both wires to one post of the sending unit. Turn on the ignition switch, the needle should go towards cold. If it does, run the engine and note whether the temperature changes. If the temp doesn't change, the sending unit is bad.

 

If the single terminal  sending unit works, the 2 terminal unit is bad.

[Matt Harwood]

Thank you for the advice guys. The car is actually coming back to me for service. The new owner did something to it and now it doesn't run. He claims he doesn't know what happened, I suspect otherwise. It was a great driving car while I had it that never gave me a bit of trouble and never ran hot. He appears to be a guy with a lot of cars but who barely knows which end of the key to insert in the ignition and actually had his "trusted" shop inform him that he would have to add a catalytic converter to this car in order to legally be allowed to use it. Meanwhile, he thinks a catalytic converter goes on the carburetor and somehow puts lead back in the gas. They already nicked him for $4000 to put a catalytic converter on some other '50s car he owns--lord knows what they actually did because he sure as hell wouldn't know.

 

The car was delivered to him on Monday and he decided it would be a good idea to drive it across Chicago in 85 degree weather at rush hour, and it stopped running. My guess is that it got hot and suffered from fuel issues from sitting in traffic. But now he says it won't start or run anymore even though it has cooled off. At least he shoved it in an underground garage where you can't get to it and can't push it up a ramp to get it out.

 

So I'll send a trailer for it, blow through a thousand bucks in shipping and I'll bet $5 that it starts and runs perfectly when it gets here. At least I'll fix the gauge while it's here. Maybe I'll throw an electric fuel pump in there while I'm at it.

 

When will I learn to trust my BS detector when it shouts at me and tells me that I shouldn't sell a guy a car?

[misterc9]

Some people have more money than brains but at least he has that " trusted"  shop to rely on.

[m-mman]

It needs to be remembered that these "Ford" V-8s  actually had "two different cooling systems that use a common radiator".  Two water pumps, each moving water on each side of the engine. The water does not cross over in the engine itself.  It is conceivable (but highly unlikely)  that just one side would run hot and the other is fine.

 

With this design Ford had a production problem, they didn't want two gauges and two wires, so the sender on just ONE side is a variable resistor to move the needle. (The one with a single connection)

 The sender on the other side (two wires) has a bimetal spring that when hot, simply flexes over and grounds the system and pegs the needle. Otherwise it simply relays the input from the single connection to the gauge. 

[Matt Harwood]

That's good to know--I was wondering how the setup worked with two sending units feeding one gauge. I'm going to buy the Ford sending units and see what happens.

 

Not sure what to do with the car at this point. New owner now informs me that he's been driving the car and getting pulled over by the police, so I'm at a loss to figure out what is going on. You'd be surprised how many crazy people have both money and are interested in old cars (plus the ability to not appear crazy most of the time)...

[Bhigdog]

On 9/26/2019 at 9:34 AM, Matt Harwood said:

When will I learn to trust my BS detector when it shouts at me and tells me that I shouldn't sell a guy a car?

 

Boy Matt, that observation actually confirms a recent experiance I had. 

Guy wants to buy one of my cars, sight unseen, for a high price. Offers to pay $80, 000 via pay pal, right then, first call, sight unseen. BS detector starts to tingle. I say "no, look at it first". I google the guy and he does have money. Says he wants all trophies, paper work, books, pix, etc. Ok, I can do that. Calls again and asks when I last changed oil and coolant. I say "last year". That's OK , when can I deliver the car. Next call he wants pix. No problem. Next call he wants me to change oil, trans fluid,  and coolant before he takes it. BS detector by now flashing RED alert. I say "sure no problem", of course I don't do it. Next call is that he wants to bring his restorer to inspect the car but it's just a formality, he wants the car and will bring check in hand. BS detector now has smoke coming out of it. Next call is he will be here with his restorer the next day so have title ready. Next day morning I check my Email and there he is...................Says he changed his mind.

My initial reaction was disappointment followed by the feeling that I had dodged a bullet. I'm guessing that buyers remorse at the first sign of the car needing a repair would have prompted calls for his money back, followed by lawyer's letters, etc etc.

I don't know how you do this s**t for a living....................Bob

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[misterc9]

You might want to take the double switch out of the circuit. Then see what happens. If things start working then the double switch is bad.

Edited October 2, 2019 by misterc9 (see edit history)

[m-mman]

And sadly it is always YOUR fault . . .

1961 Stude Convertible 90+ point restored car that had been sitting 5-7 years. A week on the phone with the 'experienced trusted mechanic' who had never seen and could not conceive of a mechanical fuel pump. (with no idea where it was located or how to change one) "But they are ALL in the gas tank!" 

 

Another nasty call because the battery went dead. They were admiring the car in the garage one night and left the doors open and the lights on . . .  

"But they are all supposed to go off automatically . . . "

 

Some people should not be allowed to have an old car. 

[Larry Schramm]

Matt,

One of the questions that might be interesting to ask since the car stopped running in Chicago is "have you ever checked the oil"?  Stranger things have occurred.

[Robert G. Smits]

Larry, that reminds me of a close friend who specialized in restoring C1 and C2 Corvettes.  One night a physician client called him because a car he purchased a year earlier quite running in the middle of the freeway.  Upon inspection there was no oil in it.  He was sued because the client stated that he was never told to check the oil!!!

[Larry Schramm]

10 hours ago, Robert G. Smits said:

Larry, that reminds me of a close friend who specialized in restoring C1 and C2 Corvettes.  One night a physician client called him because a car he purchased a year earlier quite running in the middle of the freeway.  Upon inspection there was no oil in it.  He was sued because the client stated that he was never told to check the oil!!!

 

Todays society.  It is everyone else's fault.  No personal responsibility.

[19tom40]

The sending units are the same as used in the Fords P/N 8A-10884 for the passenger side head and 8A-10990 for the driver's side head.

 

If the dash unit is not showing the temperature, read my previous post to trouble shoot. It will save you time and maybe money.

 

Before dragging the car back to Ohio, I would contact an AACA member that is familiar with Lincolns or Fords in the Chicago area and offer to pay him to check out the problems. If they are caused by the new owner, make him pay the bill, if it was your fault, you will pay the bill.

[Matt Harwood]

Thanks Tom.

 

He now reports that the car is running fine. I'm going to send him $100 worth of sending units and be done with him. He got a free set of radials and new sending units, I'm OK with being done with him as long as he's telling me the car is running.

 

I appreciate all the help!