Judging question

[NCReatta]

I'm curious on judging when it comes to tires. 

 

Obviously, tires must be the correct size. But will having an incorrect white wall be a deduction? Or having something such as Vogue tires? 

 

Just wondering what procedure is. On both AACA and BCA for that matter. 

 

Thanks in advance! 

[Pete Phillips]

That depends a lot on the individual judge. The more obvious the difference is from the factory-correct tire, the more likely you are to get one point deducted per tire. I wouldn't deduct for small differences in whitewall width from what is factory correct. Don't Vogue tires have a gold stripe or a series of little rectangles that make a gold stripe? That might be risking a deduction with some judges. 

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

[Y-JobFan]

If a whitewall wasn't available also be grounds for a deduction, I doubt any judge that has any kind of knowledge is going to let Vogues slide.  There would be a little more leeway with AACA as the judges can't be 100% familiar with every oddity and option on all the makes, they have well rounded knowledge.  There again, I doubt they will let Vogues slide but if a car didn't come with whitewalls they might not know that unless it's an obvious addition to a car that they are pretty sure didn't.  In any case, they may ask you for factory literature of documentation seeing so you can prove whatever item to be correct.  Dealer add ons are not allowable unless they are authorized by the factory. 

[old-tank]

To be correct:  bias ply with white wall starting at the rim...2.5-3" would pass.

[Y-JobFan]

LOL, it would depend what type car

 

[Barney Eaton]

Below are three different sections of the 2005 BCA Judging Handbook.

There are several areas of the judging manual that needs to be "tweeked"  and I think there are people working on updates. 

The main area I see is the "modern car" judging....the manual has old Buicks covered....where judging starts to get touchy, is with the judging forms. 

There is the original judging form for most older Buicks and then the "Modern Vehicle" judging form which is intended by most head judges, for Front Drive vehicles.

There are things in the original that do not pertain to many cars built after WWII,  meet judges have adjust their thinking to use the original forms on later cars.

A good example of what form to use would be late Buicks that are rear wheel drive...ie  Roadmasters,  & Renier.......  sorry I am getting off the tire subject.  

* The first copy is from page 13 under "judging the chassis" 

* The second copy from the manual is page 30 which deals with tire between 1937 and 1975....that is followed by 3 pages of tire listings ending at 1974

* Last is the only thing I could find for Modern cars ...which is the backside of the Modern Vehicle judging sheet for chassis

 

Once you get past the early '60's  white walls started getting very small... I can see where the 1/2 inch variation could make a noticeable difference on cars of the '70's

One tire item that is always covered at the judges training meeting,  is white wall size and RAISED WHITE lettering....which was popular in the '70's and '80's but not available on

all cars from the factory.

 

I mainly judge Reattas.........they came with black wall tires only.   ANY white wall or raised white letter tire would be incorrect on a Reatta.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[SpecialEducation]

6 hours ago, Pete Phillips said:

Don't Vogue tires have a gold stripe or a series of little rectangles that make a gold stripe?

 

Vogue sells whitewalls with and without the gold stripe (and also blackwalls), but when most people refer to putting Vogues on a Buick, I imagine they are usually talking about the gold stripe version.  Since Vogue has been around since 1914, there could be lots of applications that should be perfectly acceptable.  Since I remember my grandpa having gold stripe tires on his Caddy in the 80's, I don't think it would be fair to say a gold stripe would be period incorrect on a Reatta.  His were Uniroyal Royal Seal tires, with the gold stripe in the center and the whitewall outboard; Vogues are often reverse of that...

 

Of course, what a judge would be looking for depends on what class you are being judged in, but here's the wheel & tire guidelines.  Note that "(Mandatory deduction) " is only used in a couple places, and tire brand is not mentioned once:

 

i. Tires - Type Check tires for correct type (radial/ bias-ply). Radial tires were first offered as an option in 1967 on all models. One point is deducted for each tire which was not a factory authorized option for model and year.

 

j. Tires - Size Check tires for correct size and whitewall width for year and model. A non-authentic type tire must also receive a deduction for non-authentic tire size. If neither the standard nor alternate tire size is currently being reproduced, the next closest tire size up or down may be substituted without a deduction. A non-authentic tire size includes an obviously incorrect (more than 1/2-inch variation from factory) whitewall width. One point is deducted for each non-authentically sized tire.

 

k. Tires - Condition Check tire tread pattern; tires should match in pairs. Spare tire need not match any pair of tires on car, but if two spares are carried, they must match. 1 or 2 points should be deducted for excessive wear, dirt, or damage. Non-authentic tires (type or size) are not judged for condition.

 

l. Tire Carrier and Cover Check for correct hardware, covers and accessories for trunk, sidemount or rear spare tires.

 

m. Tire Valves / Stems / Caps / Covers Check for correct type for year of manufacture; valves, caps and stem covers (early years). Points should be deducted for painted stems and weights. Hubcaps and wheelcovers must match and be correct for year and model. 1932: First rubber valve stems. 1951: First plastic valve caps.

 

n. NonAuthentic Wheels (Mandatory deduction) Check for correct wheels and / or rims for year and model. On newer cars sport wheels may be on car, but spare may be original steel rim. Incorrect wheels result in a mandatory 10 point deduction.

 

o. Wheels / Trim Check condition of wheels. Points should be deducted for cracks in wood wheels, pits in metal, particularly on snap rings and steel spokes, for excessive paint chips and spalls around the rims. Beauty rings, pin striping, etc. should be correct for year and model.

 

https://www.buickclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/bca_judging_manual.pdf

 

[My internet connection dropped when I tried to post this 5 hours ago.  I wasn't going to retype all of this, but when I relaunched my browser *POOF!* it was here!]