tomwallace Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Hi all. I am completely the freshening up of my 1921 Premier Touring Car. One of its neat features is the Cutler-Hammer electromagnetic shift. After replacing the corroded wiring the unit works well. But we have an issue with the Borg & Beck clutch. It is a single plate clutch and we can’t seem to get the clutch adjusted. The clutched worked poorly before the last car show we attended. So we pulled the clutch. A broken ring of the facing material was just laying loose in the clutch; not riveted or glued to the plate. We thought that was odd. We had new material glued to the clutch plate. The throw-out bearing is good. We put the clutch back in. Now we can’t seem to adjust the clutch. There is a riveted tag on the clutch indicating how to adjust it but we haven't had success. My friend, a very well experienced mechanic, can’t seem to adjust the clutch. We can’t get the clutch to engage to shift it into any gear. The gears just grind. We can start the car while in gear (first or reverse) and with the clutch pedal pushed down. The clutch is grabby but the brakes do stop the car from moving. But at this point we still cannot shift the car into a different gear. Any ideas? Does anyone have a diagram or manual for the clutch? Tom Wallace Dayton, OH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Does the car have a clutch brake? Sounds like you may have other problem than just adjustment. Photos would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwallace Posted June 18, 2019 Author Share Posted June 18, 2019 Nope, no clutch brake! That is another reason why we are stumped. Will probably have to take the clutch out and re-examine. Still looking for any diagrams or advice. Thanks Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) Check to see that,.... The fiction facings are correct thickness. If new facings are just a tiny bit too thick, that's times two sides and it can sometimes make the disc just barely beyond the range of adjustment. The disc is not warped or has a bent hub causing wobbling when spun on a mandrel. The disc hub and input shaft splines are clean, not rusty, no hardened goo way down in the spline corners., or notched with wear preventing the disc from sliding easily on the splines. Pressure plate and/or flywheel surfaces are heat warped, or have burned on crud. They should be washed with solvent and then scuffed clean with emory cloth. If the disc fits into a recessed flywheel, make sure it was clearance around the outer edge from gunk buildup, or new friction discs were installed that need to be turned to a slightly smaller diameter. Some older clutches listed size with a round number, but have the clearance on the disc, not where they fit in. Example, a 10 inch clutch has a disc that is 9-7/8 inch outside diameter. But many modern replacement friction facings are a full 10 inch diameter and they need to be turned down once mounted on the disc so they won't bind in a flywheel with a clutch disc recess. Input shaft pilot bearing is too worn. Paul Edited June 18, 2019 by PFitz (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwallace Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 Thanks a lot. We will check it closely when we get the clutch out again. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryLime Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I have a 1921 Dykes manual with a page on Premier clutch adjust, but I cannot get it to attach to this thread reply ! Damn the luck ! Faster would be to drive over from Pittsburgh and hand it to you. Find the Dykes manual near you. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwallace Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 Thanks for the info. I will try to look up that Dykes issue. tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Alas, I have 1928 issue and Premier is not mentioned. There are a number of clutches discussed: is the Premier like any other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 What Pfitz said... Does your Borg and Beck clutch have two arc slots for the adjustment, and you move the bolts from one slot to the other as the clutch wears? That's what the B&B clutches on Pierce 80/81 (1925-28) use, and they are a challenge to adjust--the first time. If so, I can scan and send the adjustment instructions from an Owners Manual--but not till Monday as we're leaving early Thurs for a 4-day tour. If you can get the Dyke's page mentioned above, that's even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwallace Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 Yes I believe that is the case. Remove a bolt and screw it in to the next slot to adjust the clutch. We just have not found the sweet spot yet. Thanks for your help. I await your scan of the manual tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryLime Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 BY THUNDER ! The idiot has done it. I only hope this serves you well Mr. Wallace. Best Wishes, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Thank you. It is also in the 1930 Dyke's, but on p.1015-16 and Instruction No. 80! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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