Model 20 Steering

[Simon Anderson]

Hello again Huppers,

 

after finally get a few miles up on my Hupp, I do find it wants to “dance” across the road a bit once we start to get abit of pace up. Has anyone else have a similar issue.?

i have seen a Hupp have a modern motorcycle steering damper fitted just under the rack, this may help a little.

I have also thought about friction disc shocker for the front? Was such a thing fitted and if so what would I be looking for?

 

thanks

Simon

 

Australia

[MochetVelo]

 My car doesn't move around like that. On a rough road, however, it will bounce around due to those hard tires and strong springs. I'm thinking your alignment & front-end geometry might be at fault. I assume your king pins are a good fit? Be sure your caster & camber is set correctly. The car should move straight down a flat road with your hands off the wheel.

 

Phil

[trimacar]

I agree, I would suspect wear or non-alignment of front end causes the wandering.

 

The rack and pinion steering is VERY quick, that takes a little getting used to.....I've showed people how I can turn a corner with about a quarter turn of wheel.

 

As to original shock absorbers, they're pretty rare.  They were only installed on coupes and touring cars from the factory. They're a little unusual in design, with a non-round component and a bolt to adjust rate.  I had a set, but decided I didn't want to drill the holes in the front frame horns, so sold them.

[trimacar]

Here's a picture of an original Model 20 shock absorber.

[Simon Anderson]

thank you for your input guys,

 

Very good point on the toe in (why didn't i think of this...) I have an very old mechanical old school toe in checker, and she is toed out by 3mm from square, and i would assume it would need about a 1mm of toe in.

 

so my next question is, looking at my drag link, it may appear that one end may move, but i don't want to start trying to move something that shouldn't be moved. is there any adjustment?

 

thanks

Simon

Australia

[MochetVelo]

The Ford Model T toe-in is 4-5mm (3/16"-1/4"). Be sure to take your measurements with the wheels on the ground. Check to see if your wheels wobble when rotating. I like to refer to the MTFCA Forum, since it is so active. For example, here is a 2010 posting on toe-in:

 

"For toe in, this is what I do. Roll the car a little back and forth then put a mark, Chalk or tape at the point you measure in front. Then roll until that mark is in the back and measure from edge of rim to edge of rim. That will compensate for any crookedness in the wheels. You should have between 1/8" to 1/4" closer in front than in back. If it's within those dimensions, leave alone. If less than 1/8" inch or if toe out lengthen the tie rod one full turn and measure again. Likewise if more than 1/4" shorten the tie rod one full turn and measure again. The toe in cannot be set more precisely than one turn at a time because of the placement of the bolt at the end." 

 

Not sure if the Hupp tie rod is adjustable like the T, but check to see if it is bent or straight. It could be bent slightly to set toe-in.

 

Phil

Edited March 11, 2019 by MochetVelo (see edit history)

[Hup 1910]

Hi Simon,

A couple of things here. Firstly the steering damper is probably there to stop wheel wobble. firstly check the back axle is square across the chassis. get your front wheels dead ahead and measure between between the axle ends front to back . you can adjust this with the radius rods.

Probably you need to increase the caster to correct the wandering. The wedges are easy to make. select a piece of steel say 5mm thick to the size of the spring pad. Cut off a piece of pipe at about a 2deg angle and tack weld the steel piece to the angled end of the pipe ,Chuck in the lathe and face off. drill a hole to ,match the centre bolt . put the wedge in from the back,(makes the axle tilt backwards). Whilst you are there make sure the centre bolt is not broken.Try to measure that the caster(tilt ) is the same both sides . i use a cardboard "triangle" to match one side and then compare with the other. The other things that will affect steering is severely unbalanced front wheels. Jack up the car and add little weights until you can get the wheel to stop in any position is usually near enough.

I hope this helps.

[Simon Anderson]

Thank you Hup 1910, your information is fantastic, I will look at all that, and double check my front to back measurement.

[Simon Anderson]

Well,  after much procrastination, I have made some wedges as I found the castor was 1° forward on my Hupp.

I made them so it has 4° back Caster and it is now a different car to drive. You can drive without your hands on the steering wheel and it will go straight even over bumps.

 

Thank you all for your feedback greatly appreciated.

[1937hd45]

Is there a front and back to a Hup 20 axle, or is the caster set at the spring connection? Bob 

[Simon Anderson]

Hi Bob,

 

Yes I looked at the axle and found that it was square, so my axle has no front or back . 

The correction has been made at the spring / axle connection with a steel wedge.

 

thanks

Simon

[Max BURKE]

G,day Listers and SIMON Yes Hup 20s do dance across the road on pot holes or rough patched tar This is quite standard for them The long chassis models were fitted with Gabriel shock absorbers on the front only. The degree of damping  is adjustable by tightening the band. They do nothing for sideways jonce but are effective on dips  Max Burke Nulkaba 2325 Australia