Removal/install of Timing gear/water pump on 430

[NC1968Riviera]

I did not want to highjack VickyBlue's thread about his engine removal with my questions.

 

Can replacement of timing gears, chain and cover seals, water pump and seals be accomplished on a 430 without removing the whole engine?

 

Removal of the fan shroud, belts, fan and clutch, balancer and pulleys are required I know. Does the radiator also need to be pulled out?

 

After reading and seeing how badly the timing chain gears can be on these engines, I am now scared of catastrophic failure of my gears.

[JZRIV]

1 hour ago, NC68Riviera said:

I did not want to highjack VickyBlue's thread about his engine removal with my questions.

 

Can replacement of timing gears, chain and cover seals, water pump and seals be accomplished on a 430 without removing the whole engine? YES

 

Removal of the fan shroud, belts, fan and clutch, balancer and pulleys are required I know. Does the radiator also need to be pulled out? NO

 

After reading and seeing how badly the timing chain gears can be on these engines, I am now scared of catastrophic failure of my gears. If your gears are original yes you want to replace them. Usually the worst that happens is the teeth end up in the oil pan and usually won't cause a problem but its obviously not something you want to happen if you can avoid it. Performance will suffer some with loss of teeth and if ignored the chain can jump a tooth. Be very careful removing bolts in the water pump and timing cover to avoid breaking them. There are methods that will get them out without breaking.

 

[68RIVGS]

. . . removal of the radiator, along with the front bumper and grill  is not necessary,  but it will give you much better access to the front of the engine! !

 

 

[VickyBlue]

Mike, from what I saw, there was not enough distance for my electric impact to safely lock onto the balancer nut in a straight way and remove it. It is a Cobalt I bought from Lowe's many years back. I don't have air...Maybe a more compact air impact would work better, but that was my main issue. The radiator removal will give you an extra 4-5 inches or so, but it is not necessary to remove it. I removed all the water pump bolts but the 2 under the oil pan while the engine was on the car. it is easy to get to those bolts with the engine in the car. 

You will have to unhook , the bypass hose and the heater core hose only, the top radiator hose will make things a little easier to get to the bolts underneath I think. . You will use the yellow torch, heat up around the bolts, then spray PB , let it soak, then heat up again and try rocking the bolt back and forth, heat some more, spray some more and once it takes a 1/4 turn turn you  are on the way home... Don't force anything, the small ones are the ones prone to breaking. Right when it feels it's coming out, snap... all I can say is take your time...

My bumper was in the way of my hoist, so was the front grill. You can easily lean over and get the the water pump with them on. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by VickyBlue (see edit history)

[JZRIV]

10 hours ago, 68RIVGS said:

. . . removal of the radiator, along with the front bumper and grill  is not necessary,  but it will give you much better access to the front of the engine! !

 

 

Randy has good point on the radiator. Since you have to drain coolant anyway, removing the radiator is easy (assuming trans cooling lines aren't frozen to the nut). I've done them leaving rad in but taking it out would also prevent accidental damage to it. Considering cost of a good recore today, best not to take the risk.

[PWB]

On 9/6/2018 at 11:14 PM, VickyBlue said:

Mike, from what I saw, there was not enough distance for my electric impact to safely lock onto the balancer nut in a straight way and remove it. It is a Cobalt I bought from Lowe's many years back. I don't have air...Maybe a more compact air impact would work better, but that was my main issue. The radiator removal will give you an extra 4-5 inches or so, but it is not necessary to remove it. I removed all the water pump bolts but the 2 under the oil pan while the engine was on the car. it is easy to get to those bolts with the engine in the car. 

You will have to unhook , the bypass hose and the heater core hose only, the top radiator hose will make things a little easier to get to the bolts underneath I think. . You will use the yellow torch, heat up around the bolts, then spray PB , let it soak, then heat up again and try rocking the bolt back and forth, heat some more, spray some more and once it takes a 1/4 turn turn you  are on the way home... Don't force anything, the small ones are the ones prone to breaking. Right when it feels it's coming out, snap... all I can say is take your time...

My bumper was in the way of my hoist, so was the front grill. You can easily lean over and get the the water pump with them on. 

Hello

 

Would you tell how you safely broke loose your balancer nut with motor installed?

 

 Thanks 

 

Paul

 

[JZRIV]

Paul,

Good Impact gun with lots of air pressure should do it.

Not saying its most safe but I have have done it without issue when impact or air  source was not available. Put long breaker bar and socket firmly on crank bolt so the bar rests on the floor on driver side of car. Disconnect coil wire from distributor and carefully quick-bump engine over and poof the bolt is loose before you know it!

I've also had a helper wedge a large screwdriver in the flywheel teeth to lock the engine to enable loosening the bolt. I would choose option #1 though!!!

Edited July 23, 2020 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[telriv]

    Balancer bolt. Go to Auto Zone, Advanced Auto or NAPA they ALL have tool loan rentals where you leave a deposit.  When you return the tool the deposit is refunded or as Jason has said above.

   The small 7/16th. headed bolts & the one bolt 1/2" headed bolt that I believe holds the alt. adjustment bracket on. Spray the bolts with PBlaster or WD40. Hit the heads of the bolts with a good sized hammer & hit the bolts squarely & kinda hard & straight.  This will shock the bolt & allow the penetrate to wick around the threads making removal easier. 

In between drive the car to help the process as the heat will ALSO allow the penetrate to work.  You may want to do this 3-4-5 times & in between & add penetrate & .hammer also.

   This time is much easier than removing broken bolts & your sanity.

Now onto the oil pick-up screen.  IF a few teeth are broken it should be NO PROBLEM.  IF a lot of teeth are broken/missing you should drop the oil pan.  The reasoning behind this.  YES, you have oil pressure, BUT you lose the volume required to help keep things cool, which causes bearings especially of the ever important cooling volume.

Just my dimes worth on 60+ years of experience.

 

Tom T.

[cjp69]

Shameless plug for me, I have a 1968 timing chain cover for sale in the parts for sale section if you find out that yours has issues!  :>)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by cjp69 (see edit history)