23 Buick door handle

[carmover]

What years do the sedan oval shaped outside door handles fit? I need on for my 23 sedan and I know they used them for several years through the 20's This will help in my search.

[dibarlaw]

Get a good photo and some sizes. Then we can check with HANDLEMAN on the forum. I know many handles at this time were die-cast. Hugh had a run of handles cast in brass for our 1925 Standard. They used an original brass handle I happen to have on my car as a pattern. The resulting handles were very rough and it will still take me some time to get them in any condition to plate.

 At the Buick Nationals in Denver one gentleman had his

1927 Model 51 handles reproduced by doing a 3D model and printing out a pattern. He also gave a seminar about 3D printing.

[Hubert_25-25]

This is the first page of the listing of handles from the big parts book  .  I don't know what model you have.  Do you have a parts book with a part number?

 

 

[carmover]

2 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

This is the first page of the listing of handles from the big parts book  .  I don't know what model you have.  Do you have a parts book with a part number?

 

 

Hugh, It is a model 50 Master  Seven Passenger Sedan.It has the ornamental oval shaped handle as seen in this picture

[Hubert_25-25]

Ron, 

     Hildebran Designs made these oval handles.  They have patterns for some items and will pour individual stuff if the mold owner has agreed that it is OK for someone else to use their mold, so you would need to talk to them.  I think these are 1925-28 Buick handles.    

 

Hildebran Designs, Inc.
386 Center Conway Road 
Brownfield, Maine 04010
PHONE: (207)935-3729
FAX: (207)935-0114
CELL: (207)890-9596

E-mail us: hildebrandesigns@fairpoint.net

 

Here is also another option for someone that may have handles.

http://www.vintageandclassicreproductions.com

 

[carmover]

18 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Ron, 

     Hildebran Designs made these oval handles.  They have patterns for some items and will pour individual stuff if the mold owner has agreed that it is OK for someone else to use their mold, so you would need to talk to them.  I think these are 1925-28 Buick handles.    

 

Hildebran Designs, Inc.
386 Center Conway Road 
Brownfield, Maine 04010
PHONE: (207)935-3729
FAX: (207)935-0114
CELL: (207)890-9596

E-mail us: hildebrandesigns@fairpoint.net

 

Here is also another option for someone that may have handles.

http://www.vintageandclassicreproductions.com

 

Thanks Hugh, These look similar to what I need , mine are breaking up where they attach to the center.The other three are in perfect shape and the chrome plating is good but this one was dull and didn't perfectly match the other ones.I also need the little bracketts.Someone made a repair on mine and once installed you can't see the repair.I will try to contact these folks and see if they can help me out.

[carmover]

12 hours ago, ASCwebmaster said:

Ron,

I have a 1924 Master Six 51a Brougham and all four of my outside door handles have broken off, still have the originals but I need them also. Can you keep my updated on your progress and if someone is reproducing them, then maybe another 4 in the order will help both of us keep the cost down.

That sounds like a good plan.I haven't contacted the foundry yet as I have been busy on my 25 touring but I am about ready to get on the 23 handle issue and will let you know promptly about what I found out.I have heard that they require a minimum order.I wouldn't mind having some spares and am sure you would too so this should help us both.

[carmover]

7 hours ago, ASCwebmaster said:

Sounds good, I'm definitely in.

I have some good news.A gentleman that owns the mold that is in Hilldebrand custody has given them permission to use his mold to reproduce these Handles.I am going to try to contact Hilldebrand in the morning and will get back to you on what I have found.I am going to remove one of my good handles a get some good pictures and measurements for comparison so we will all be on the same page.     Ron

[carmover]

On 8/19/2018 at 11:21 PM, ASCwebmaster said:

Wow that is great news, maybe you should do a post once you know the details for sure, post a picture of your handles, or what they will look like and see if anyone else out there needs some so we can hopefully reduce the cost for everyone. I'm definitely on board.

I finally got in touch with John at Hildebrand Designs and the casting cost is very reasonable in the $45 to $50 range and if we have to make our own mold there is a $150.00 charge.There is no minimum and you just order what you need. He said that we will have to find our own plator but the bronze that they use plates very nice. They use a stainless shaft.He said the turn around time is not too bad and they pour the bronze on a weekly basis.

[carmover]

21 hours ago, ASCwebmaster said:

Great news. Im still in for at least a set of four, probably get an extra 2 in case something happens in the plating process, or one get lost etc., if there is a mold charge I'll go in half unless there are others who need handles aside from us then we can devide that cost up amongst everyone. Keep me updated, I'm in.

I talked with John Hildebrand this morning and it turns out that we will have to pay a little bit on each casting to the owner of the mold which I think is fair enough.John also stated that each casting takes a lot of labor and buying multiple  handles will not save us any money.I finally got the price for the casting nailed down and it will be $80.00 each. He also said that the turn around time would be 3 to 4 weeks.John also said that he talked to the mold owner this morning as now has his permission to use his mold to do these.

[dibarlaw]

This is somewhat Hugh and I went through when we tried to get handles made for our 1925 Standard touring cars. I first considered Hildebrand since I spoke with him personally at a Model Expo. There was a floorboard thimble that he had we also wanted to get done (but in aluminum which they do not do). The owner of the mold had to be contacted and after many months of no contact we went elsewhere. After dealing with a west coast place that got us into the $45-$50 range we were disappointed with the very poor quality. I will spend double the price in prepping them to be plated.

If the handles look as good as what is shown I believe you will be further ahead.

[carmover]

When I talked to john yesterday He gave me that estimated price in the 45 to 50 dollar range so I am a little disappointed too as He didn't mention that we had to pay some royalties to the mold owner.I do think this is cheaper than making our own mold.Another thing I should have nailed down yesterday was whether we were going to get a discount for a larger run which today I found out that it didn't matter how many we ordered it would make no difference in the price.So whats caused all of this is this morning John talked to the mold owner who wants to recoup some of his investment in the mold which if I owned the mold I would probably feel the same way he does.What I posted on here yesterday what  I was told at the time so don't shoot the messenger.

Edited August 28, 2018 by carmover (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Ronnie,

I thought that I read earlier that they would charge you $150.00 to have your own mold made?  It looks to me like it would be cheaper to go this route that to have to continually pay someone else for using a mold that is owned by them.  Let's say you want to want to have some more made in a couple of years - the guy who owns the mold has his hand in your pocket.  Don't know about you, but that thought is very distasteful to me - just sayin'.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas 

[carmover]

2 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said:

Ronnie,

I thought that I read earlier that they would charge you $150.00 to have your own mold made?  It looks to me like it would be cheaper to go this route that to have to continually pay someone else for using a mold that is owned by them.  Let's say you want to want to have some more made in a couple of years - the guy who owns the mold has his hand in your pocket.  Don't know about you, but that thought is very distasteful to me - just sayin'.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas 

Terry, I am thinking the same thing .He told me yesterday that the casting charge was in the 45 to 50 dollar range and when I questioned the 80.00 dollar price this morning he said that he was still charging me the the same for the casting and the rest was going to the mold owner.What I need to determine is my 23 sedan and Shawn's 24 Brougham share the same handles.If this is the case Shawn has already agreed to split the cost of the mold.If it was just me I wouldn't mind paying the 80.00 but shawn has all four of his broken off and that will be a pretty large bill to pay as we already have to pay for plating on top of this.Also Shawn was thinking about ordering a couple of spares and I wouldn't mind having a couple of xtras also if the price was better.

Edited August 29, 2018 by carmover (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

ASC,

I think that you and I are on the same page as to helping others.  $150.00 for a mold is not really all that much and if three or four guys get in on the order, then the cost per piece is a lot lower.  To me this is what this hobby is all about - having fun, helping others out, and making friends while doing that.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[carmover]

On 7/15/2018 at 5:05 PM, Hubert_25-25 said:

Ron, 

     Hildebran Designs made these oval handles.  They have patterns for some items and will pour individual stuff if the mold owner has agreed that it is OK for someone else to use their mold, so you would need to talk to them.  I think these are 1925-28 Buick handles.    

 

Hildebran Designs, Inc.
386 Center Conway Road 
Brownfield, Maine 04010
PHONE: (207)935-3729
FAX: (207)935-0114
CELL: (207)890-9596

E-mail us: hildebrandesigns@fairpoint.net

 

Here is also another option for someone that may have handles.

http://www.vintageandclassicreproductions.com

 

One thing that concerns me is the Foundry installs the shaft in the casting and makes a new oval bracket but the actual oval bracket has a roller inside and appears to be installed on shaft before the shaft is installed in the handle and I couldn't make John understand what I was talking about.The brackets also have to have some way to stay on the shaft or the handle wouldn't have anything to hold it in.How do you that have had Handles cast handle this situation?

Edited August 30, 2018 by carmover (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Ronnie,

I am thinking that the shaft is grooved and that there is a retaining ring that fits in the groove and holds the shaft and handle.  I had a Willys-Knight automobile that used a set-up like that.  Worked pretty slick.

 

Terry Wiegand

Doo Dah America

[carmover]

When you bolt it to the door the roller is what the shaft turns in and also holds the handle in.

 

[carmover]

1 hour ago, Terry Wiegand said:

Ronnie,

I am thinking that the shaft is grooved and that there is a retaining ring that fits in the groove and holds the shaft and handle.  I had a Willys-Knight automobile that used a set-up like that.  Worked pretty slick.

 

Terry Wiegand

Doo Dah America

Terry,what it looks like is the shaft is soldered on and I don't see any other lock rings or anything on it.Also the shaft corners are ground off to allow the bracket to be installed and as I said before it would have to be installed on the shaft prior to being inserted into handle.The foundry said they install a stainless steel shaft deep into the handle at their facility.also the roller can't be removed from the bracket.

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by carmover (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

Ron, 

     I have the same issue with the handles that I had made.  The handles are way on the back burner.  I was going to set the escutcheon in place and then use a hacksaw to put 4 notches around the shaft.  Then I was going to use an external snap ring.  I will probably also use 2 wraps of a compression spring and a washer, and that will keep the handle against the inside of the escutcheon.    I have not determined the size, but if you go this route and get a bag and have extra snap rings, I will take a few.  McMaster Carr may be a good place to look and see what sizes they offer.     Hugh  

 

[carmover]

3 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Ron, 

     I have the same issue with the handles that I had made.  The handles are way on the back burner.  I was going to set the escutcheon in place and then use a hacksaw to put 4 notches around the shaft.  Then I was going to use an external snap ring.  I will probably also use 2 wraps of a compression spring and a washer, and that will keep the handle against the inside of the escutcheon.    I have not determined the size, but if you go this route and get a bag and have extra snap rings, I will take a few.  McMaster Carr may be a good place to look and see what sizes they offer.     Hugh  

 

Hugh, The problem is that you can't remove the piece inside the escutcheon that that was factory made to keep the shaft from binding and the new casting won't have them in the new escutcheons.Also it doesn't look like you can install the escutcheon once the shaft is installed in the handle and the foundry installs or cast the shaft in the handle before you receive it from them . You can see the piece I am talking about and also notice the shaft has been altered by the factory so the escutcheon can be installed

Edited August 31, 2018 by carmover (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

Ron, 

       Two ways to skin a cat.  The photo that Shawn has matches the style used on his handles and the handles from Hildebrand.  This is just a different design that uses a ball and socket.  Interesting to see a different style, but accomplishing the same task.  Hugh  

[carmover]

14 minutes ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Ron, 

       Two ways to skin a cat.  The photo that Shawn has matches the style used on his handles and the handles from Hildebrand.  This is just a different design that uses a ball and socket.  Interesting to see a different style, but accomplishing the same task.  Hugh  

          Hugh ,         The question is will the Hildebrand casting install and work properly without the ball and socket? If so I can use the snap ring method as you describe.

[Leif Holmberg]

Pictures from 1923 6 cyl.parts book.

Leif in Sweden

[carmover]

10 hours ago, Leif Holmberg said:

Pictures from 1923 6 cyl.parts book.

Leif in Sweden

This means that I am in trouble here!

[Leif Holmberg]

No problem,everything can be fixed in one or another way,just figure out how!

Leif in Sweden.

[carmover]

Shawn,I am going to get with the foundry and see what if anything they suggest.If the stainless shaft is a part of the casting process I have no way to put the escutcheon on.This is going to take some figuring out and engineering. 

[carmover]

Shawn if you look closely at my pictures you will notice that on yours and mine they cut the corners off the shaft and likely installed the escutcheon on that end before the shaft was inserted.If that was the case then if the castor inserts the stainless shaft  in as part of the casting process how can we install the escutcheon.If you notice on the Hildebrand pictures the shaft is not cut at the rear. I am trying to contact a Gentleman that has already cast his and installed them and see what he has to say and maybe put my fears to rest.

Edited September 1, 2018 by carmover (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Here is my two cents (or far less) worth.

 

I think ASC's handle has the shaft in the handle, then the escutcheon put on, then the block of layers put on, then the shaft is pinched with a pair of hard, sharp pincers to raise those little tabs that hold the parts on the shaft.

 

I think Carmover's handle is done the same way. The shaft is in the handle. The bezel is made integral with the ball arrangement. Then the ball and bezel is put on the shaft and those corner squeezes raise enough shaft metal to hold it on. There are also little parts that almost look like wedges on the inside of the ball system, on the shaft flats. The inside (car side) of the bezel has, perhaps, been rolled onto the ball system during manufacture. It may even be cast on, with a release agent on the ball.

 

I think you need to sacrifice one broken handle that is good enough to see how it is put together when you cut the bezel and ball arrangement in half parallel to the shaft, so you get it off and can see how it is made and how it is held on.

[dibarlaw]

Spinneyhill:

 I agree as I have had to do that to several of the 6 "CLOSE" handles I got for Hugh and I. The each one had some deformation for creating a retainer for the escutcheon. Several had a collar and spring inside. Others had a collar and a cross pin. The one we sent to get replicated has an undercut just under the location of the escutcheon. A split steel collar about 1/4" wide  acts as a snap ring.

Edited September 1, 2018 by dibarlaw (see edit history)