I found this on line..

[nick8086]

Looking for a new 1979 Trans Am  with 65 miles on it??

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/brand-new-1979-trans-am-can-be-yours-for-dollar160000/ar-AAtJrk5?ocid=mailsignout#image=AAtJrk5_1|1

[George Smolinski]

The story of how it has the low miles seems fishy. Tell me what 18 year old kid is going to convince his dad to sign for a loan on a car like that, then buy the car, & not drive the crap out of it. I worked in a car reconditioning shop many years ago & the dealers that sent their used cars to us to clean up would send a guy over sometimes to spin back odometers. I watched a couple of times, & I think I could make any of the mechanical odometers read 65 miles with a few tools & a little time.

 

[capngrog]

53 minutes ago, George Smolinski said:

The story of how it has the low miles seems fishy. Tell me what 18 year old kid is going to convince his dad to sign for a loan on a car like that, then buy the car, & not drive the crap out of it. I worked in a car reconditioning shop many years ago & the dealers that sent their used cars to us to clean up would send a guy over sometimes to spin back odometers. I watched a couple of times, & I think I could make any of the mechanical odometers read 65 miles with a few tools & a little time.

 

 

That story is not just fishy, but EXTREMELY fishy!  I agree with George in that an 18 year old man/boy is going to drive the "crap" out of any car he has, let alone a brand new Trans Am.  If you haven't already done so, I invite the readers of this thread to study the posts on a parallel thread on this forum, entitled: "Provenance and Documentation - Issues and Thoughts".  Except for extremely unusual circumstances, such as "the owner locked his car in a certified time capsule" etc. I don't know how it would be possible to prove that a car of any age had just 65 'real' miles on its odometer.

 

Cheers,

Grog

[joe_padavano]

First, fishy or not, it's pretty easy to verify if the mileage is real by simply looking at the car.  Second, any car that's been sitting for nearly 40 years is not going to be safely driveable without a lot of work, including replacing all the rubber parts, rebuilding the brakes, and who knows what else.  Third, the asking price is stupid money.  MSN and similar non-automotive media love stories like this.  Only the uninformed are impressed by them.

[capngrog]

14 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

First, fishy or not, it's pretty easy to verify if the mileage is real by simply looking at the car. 

 

How does one do that?  For example, how would one determine the difference between a 65 mile car from a well-maintained/detailed 6500 mile car, "by simply looking at the car"?  Remember, lookee, no touchee!  I'm sure that there will be some differences, but they would be VERY difficult to detect in the course of a visual inspection.

 

14 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

  Second, any car that's been sitting for nearly 40 years is not going to be safely driveable without a lot of work, including replacing all the rubber parts, rebuilding the brakes, and who knows what else.  Third, the asking price is stupid money.  MSN and similar non-automotive media love stories like this.  Only the uninformed are impressed by them.

 

I absolutely agree with those immediately above observations!

Cheers,

Grog

[Bleach]

Yeah it's overpriced. It only has the Olds 403 not a T/A 6.6.

Kidding aside even in 79, the Pontiac 400 was more desirable.

[nick8086]

I like this car also a : a lot less money..

428 Tri power, 4 speed -GTO..

 

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/801392/1966-pontiac-tempest-for-sale-in-davidson-saskatchewan-s0g1a0

 

 

I  like the Goats, Hemi , 442 , 440. since I grew up with them..  It maybe makes up for the 90 HP darrin..

Edited October 23, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

I once "LOOKED" at a 1962 Lincoln that had only "200" miles on it. While it was clearly a very low mileage car, by LOOKING, it was also easy to tell it had many more miles on it than 200. Look at the wear on the gas and brake pedals (clutch, too), carpet, etc. On that car, the gas filler is in the center of the rear, just above the bumper. There were a lot of scratches in the chrome just in that area, meaning that a gas jockey of some sort had lazily let the gas nozzle slide against the bumper while filling the tank (how many times do you have to fill the tank with just 200 miles?). LOOK at the door sill and see if there's multiple scratches. There are many places to LOOK. Particularly on that era of Pontiac/Camaro, the side glass is almost ALWAYS scratched. Each time the window goes up and down, the scratches got deeper and deeper (again, how many times does one need to raise and lower the window? ... unless the 18-year-old went in-and-out just to pretend he was driving his very own car).

 

While not easy (or possible?) to do on the Trans Am, the Lincoln's speedometer cable could easily be disconnected.

 

George's story reminds me of a story a friend told me: He bought and sold the same Corvette at least 3 times. Each time he bought it back, the odometer showed fewer miles.

 

Grog also brings up a great point, referring us back to the "Documentation and Provenance" thread.

[8E45E]

Even if it truly does have 65 miles on it, its still $100,000 too high.

 

Craig

[Frantz]

A more believable story is it was the fathers car, and he wanted it to get passed to his son, but with the intent as a collector, figured he's just just put it right into his sons name in order to keep it one own for an extra generation. Then with the untimely death of his son and own growing age decided finding someone willing to overpay is better. Say for a moment it is as presented, what's it worth? Well I don't think there is another, so its a high bidder situation. Since I saw a plain Jane Metropolitan sell for almost $75k at the Hershey RM auction all I can say is... it just takes two people who want it. Two people who wish it was their idea to buy a car when they were still cars brand new and just keep it.

Actually the funny part of the story to me is the not registering the title. I wasn't born in '79 let alone having experience in the industry, but today it would never fly to sell a car on the certificate of origin and get a loan. When I worked at a dealer, if I tried to pull that off the bank would refuse to fund the loan and we'd be stuck to get the car back.

 

On the other side, we did have a customer with a Shelby who told us to leave it as delivered. He pealed off the paint protection plastic and removed the seat protections, but kept the window sticker and all the interior labels in place. Last time I saw it there was maybe 7 or 8k. It looked pretty new. I've had the chance to personally inspect the Dodge for sale up in New England with something like under 200 miles. I honestly don't even remember what it was, Green four door.... I'll tell you what, it looks really nice... but not showroom fresh. Damage happens over the years. My brother and I bought a 1500 mile 1983 Malibu back in high school (for us, that's around 2000 or 2001). That one was like new but was all dinged up as the surviving spouse had door dinged it for almost 20 years. I don't have reason to believe either weren't what they looked to be, but how things are stored can make a huge difference.

[8E45E]

21 minutes ago, Frantz said:

A more believable story is it was the fathers car, and he wanted it to get passed to his son, but with the intent as a collector, figured he's just just put it right into his sons name in order to keep it one own for an extra generation. Then with the untimely death of his son and own growing age decided finding someone willing to overpay is better. Say for a moment it is as presented, what's it worth? Well I don't think there is another, so its a high bidder situation. Since I saw a plain Jane Metropolitan sell for almost $75k at the Hershey RM auction all I can say is... it just takes two people who want it. Two people who wish it was their idea to buy a car when they were still cars brand new and just keep it.

Actually the funny part of the story to me is the not registering the title. I wasn't born in '79 let alone having experience in the industry, but today it would never fly to sell a car on the certificate of origin and get a loan. When I worked at a dealer, if I tried to pull that off the bank would refuse to fund the loan and we'd be stuck to get the car back.

 

On the other side, we did have a customer with a Shelby who told us to leave it as delivered. He pealed off the paint protection plastic and removed the seat protections, but kept the window sticker and all the interior labels in place. Last time I saw it there was maybe 7 or 8k.

One of the muscle car magazines some years ago profiled a '69 Charger which still had its Certificate of Origin in place, in that it was never registered since it was new.  Cars like that usually change hands privately, and no doubt, the buyer pays cash.

 

There are lots of 1989 Corvette ZR-1's out there with 'close to zero' miles on them with all the factory stickers and shipping materials still in place.  This became a MAJOR and LEGAL headache for GM as there were a number of recalls on the ZR-1's including brakes.  Instead of returning the car to the dealer for retrofitting, owners of these low-mileage ZR-1's insisted in picking up the parts at the dealers and leaving them in their unopened packaging to keep with the car.

 

Craig

[Frantz]

Oh I know you can buy it cash on the COO, but tell a bank you don't want it titled and try and get their money..... It's the loan that I find questionable in this situation.

[capngrog]

4 hours ago, West Peterson said:

I once "LOOKED" at a 1962 Lincoln that had only "200" miles on it. While it was clearly a very low mileage car, by LOOKING, it was also easy to tell it had many more miles on it than 200. Look at the wear on the gas and brake pedals (clutch, too), carpet, etc. On that car, the gas filler is in the center of the rear, just above the bumper. There were a lot of scratches in the chrome just in that area, meaning that a gas jockey of some sort had lazily let the gas nozzle slide against the bumper while filling the tank (how many times do you have to fill the tank with just 200 miles?). LOOK at the door sill and see if there's multiple scratches. There are many places to LOOK. Particularly on that era of Pontiac/Camaro, the side glass is almost ALWAYS scratched. Each time the window goes up and down, the scratches got deeper and deeper (again, how many times does one need to raise and lower the window? ... unless the 18-year-old went in-and-out just to pretend he was driving his very own car).

 

While not easy (or possible?) to do on the Trans Am, the Lincoln's speedometer cable could easily be disconnected.

 

George's story reminds me of a story a friend told me: He bought and sold the same Corvette at least 3 times. Each time he bought it back, the odometer showed fewer miles.

 

Grog also brings up a great point, referring us back to the "Documentation and Provenance" thread.

 

West brings up some good points here.  I'd never have thought to look at the gas filler nozzle area, and I think that would show use with relatively few miles.  Maybe I spread my mileages (65 vs. 6500) a bit too far, but usually the difference in pedal wear between, say, 65 miles and 1300 miles would not normally be discernible, and removable floor mats can prevent carpet wear.  There might be discernible pedal wear at 6500 miles, but I'm not sure.   As West pointed out, door sills are excellent indicators of use.  I'm not familiar with the Pontiac/Camaro window glass scratching phenomenon, but that would be an excellent indicator of wear as well.  Back in the days of "sinful" smokers, ash or butt stob grind marks in the ashtray would tell the difference between a 65 and a 1300 mile car, but nowadays ... ?  New cars don't even have ash trays, do they?

 

Cheers,

Grog

[George Smolinski]

I helped with a sale about a year ago of a 1968 Biscayne L72 four speed with 750 actual miles. That sold for about $150,000, but that was an L72 Biscayne, not some crappy late 70's thunderchicken.

 

[West Peterson]

2 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

I helped with a sale about a year ago of a 1968 Biscayne L72 four speed with 750 actual miles. That sold for about $150,000, but that was an L72 Biscayne, not some crappy late 70's thunderchicken.

 

I remember when late '60s Biscaynes were considered crappy, too.

[8E45E]

2 hours ago, West Peterson said:

I remember when late '60s Biscaynes were considered crappy, too.

Hopefully, we will see a late 60's Biscayne or two with an L72 at the MCACN show in Chicago next month. 

 

As far as a late 70's malaise-era car, almost of no interest to me.  Admittedly, the front & rear 5-mph bumpers of '79 Firebirds were nicely disguised for the time, but the panel fit was atrocious.

 

Craig