Fuel Pump Changed. New Problems. 1953 Chrysler Windsor

[keithb7]

Hi folks, 

I recently purchased a 1953 Chrysler Windsor Deluxe. The owner gave me a new fuel pump that he had, along with the car. He told me he had planned to change it but did not. He mentioned that if the car sat for extended periods it was hard to start until fuel pressure was restored. He told me the pump should be changed. The car seemed to run fine for the first week I owned it. However it was being used almost daily. 

The next weekend I decided to change the fuel pump as previous owner suggested. I started the job to quickly learn that the fuel pump was not the correct part. Hmm. I wonder if he knew that? Makes no difference anyway, buyer beware, so I ordered a new fuel pump.

I installed the new fuel pump this morning. It was an easy job. I also replaced the flex line from the pump to the steel fuel line that runs along under the radiator. Someone had installed an inline fuel filter canister between the fuel pump and the carb. I also replaced the two small connector hoses there and new hose clamps all around. 

The car started right up. I could see fuel in the glass bowl in the new pump.
All seemed well. So my 18 year old son and his girl went out for a quick ride. He called me and noted that there was a whistling noise coming from the car, and that it had stalled 2 or three times while idling at a stop light.

He proceeded to drive home. Then I got a call 5 mins later he was dead in the middle of a busy road. They managed to push the car into a parking lot.
I grabbed a handful of tools and my old removed fuel pump and headed there to the car.

Through some quick trouble shooting, I found the car was starving for fuel. I pulled the new fuel pump to inspect it. It seemed to be sucking and pushing just fine when I manipulated the lever by hand. I deduced the fuel pump was not pulling any fuel. He told me the fuel gauge was no longer working either. Hmm. I estimated that they ran it out of fuel. I put in 2 gallons from a Jerry Can. Sure enough, the fuel gage came up. The car started. 

I headed directly to the gas station to find I could only squeeze in about 3 gallons of fuel. I physically watched the fuel level in the fill hose. It burbled a few times and settled down. I kept topping it up until fuel was seen right up to the brim. It was full. From apparently out of gas to full to the brim, 5 gallons? No way. The tank is bigger than that.

I estimate the previous owner may have installed an incorrect fuel pick up tube maybe. The tube can't pull fuel once it's suspended in air inside the tank. If it's too short. Am I on the right track here? Previous owner did tell me he installed a new fuel level gauge. Hmm. More questions than answers here.

So anyway, I proceed to drive home. I can hear a slight whistling too from the engine compartment. I pull over and have a listen. Hard to tell exactly where it is coming from. Almost sounds like the carb to me. I rev up the engine, it goes away. At idle it started to come back. Not sure what is causing that.

Carrying one home, I found that under heavy full load pulling a hill, the engine seems to be starving for as much fuel as it needs. Loss of engine power and surging. I backed off the throttle and the problem stopped. Floored it again, pulling hard up a hill, it sputters again. No stalling. I backed off the throttle and drove home with out further incident. 

Car idled well at home. Letting it cool down before I go back to check a few things.

The only other thing I did today was dump the oil bath filter oil and wipe out the bowl clean. I re-filled the oil to the mark inside the bowl.
Is it possible I have too much oil in the bowl? Could too much oil cause it to restrict air flow? I had no hesitation on the hill home before I changed the fuel pump. Maybe I put the inline fuel filter between the pump and carb, on backwards. Better go check that.

I have a couple of things to figure out here. Any comments, tips are welcome. That way when I am digging in I have some ideas what to look for.
I think I'll start by dropping the fuel tank and checking out the fuel pickup tube.

Thanks in advance for any tips. - Keith

Edited May 28, 2017 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[keiser31]

Does the car have a vented gas cap? Sometimes the cap will cause problems if the tank cannot get air. There are other examples about that on the forum if you do a search about gas caps. Try that prior to removing the tank.

Edited May 28, 2017 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[PFitz]

One possibility that fits with the symptoms mentioned.

 

Had a customer with similar complaints. Carb and fuel pump checked out, idled fine, ran fine for the first few miles and then got progressively worse starving for fuel, especially under load until the engine quit.

 

 Dropped the tank and found lots of rust flakes in the bottom of the tank.  Tank wasn't too rusted so I suspect someone may have been using rusty gas cans to fill the tank ???

 

What would happen was that at low fuel flow of idle the rust stayed on the bottom of the tank and the engine ran fine at idle, or revving the engine as much as you like. However, driving was when the problems started.  Turns out that with the gas sloshing around in the tank during driving the rust flakes would get stirred up a bit. Those flakes closest to the pickup tube were sucked up against the tube opening by the increased fuel flow. Then they started to block off the tube end restricting the amount of fuel that could get through and starving the engine when needing more fuel during acceleration and on hills. When enough flakes got sucked up against the tube and the engine finally stopped the flakes would drop back down clearing the tube and allowing full fuel flow again until the next driving session stirred them up again.

 

Cleaned and sloshed inside the tank with Bill Hirsch sealer and no more problems.

 

Paul

Edited May 28, 2017 by PFitz (see edit history)

[keithb7]

 

20 hours ago, keithb7 said:

I Drained tank and dropped it. See pic below. It appears that the fuel pick up screen assembly was originally tacked to the tank floor. Tack weld broke. Pick up screen assy is now moving around in the tank, not staying on the bottom. That might explain why I was only able to get 5 more gallons in the tank, yet fuel pump was not pulling fuel. I wonder if that screen becomes slightly buoyant and flops around? 

You can still see the original piece still tacked to the tank floor.

Thinking I will get a certified welder to cut access hole in top of fuel tank. Re-tack weld the pick up screen in place. Then re-weld the cut access hole. Will have to be air tight weld. 

Any suggestions? Thanks.

[F&J]

1 hour ago, keithb7 said:

Thinking I will get a certified welder to cut access hole in top of fuel tank. Re-tack weld the pick up screen in place. Then re-weld the cut access hole. Will have to be air tight weld. 

Any suggestions? Thanks.

Yes a weld shop, ...they might just do what you said, an access hole up top, then simple mig welds at the pickup will not burn through.

 

Can't tell from web info you could ever give, but how can it lift so high to be out of gas with 5 gallons under full?  You may have other issues after the tank is fixed.  I would then put only two/three gallons to see if it will stay running with fixed tank.

 

 

21 hours ago, keithb7 said:

He mentioned that if the car sat for extended periods it was hard to start until fuel pressure was restored. He told me the pump should be changed

This is simply not true.  All carb'ed  cars sitting, will quickly lose all of this new gas from evaporation.  The fuel pump is NOT the cause.  Folks here, and on the net, do add a booster electric pump, only used before you start the engine, then when it fires up, shut the electric off.  My 32 ford is set up like that also. 

 

NOTE: the electric pump will push gas right through the stock pump without harm, AND when the electric is off, the stock pump draws fuel right through the electric pump without harm.

 

,

[keithb7]

The fuel pick up tube is easily manipulated to angle up, and will stay there. I was able to access it through the level gage port in the tank. While viewing it through the fill port. It appears that it would easily slosh around with the fuel, when not attached to the floor. I will get a good look in the tank for further inspection once an access hole is cut.

Edited May 29, 2017 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[keithb7]

 

Update:

 

All fixed! I took the fuel tank to to a rad shop. They boiled it. Inside and out was spotless. They soldered the mounting tab back in place. Then coated the out side of the tank in new black paint. Tank now looks new. I took tank home this evening and installed it. Blew air though the fuel line from the pump back, before hooking up fuel line to tank. Some dirty fuel came out. System is now all clean. I put in about 6.5 gallons of fuel in the bone dry tank. Fired up the car in no time. Pick up strainer seems to working as it should.

[c49er]

Drive it a 100 miles all in one day to be sure!