How did they ever do this in production?

[poci1957]

17 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

We tape up and glass bead stainless or chrome before painting. Seems to work well.

I think that is the best way for the restorer now but certainly production would not have allowed that then.  That is why it seems to me the paint must have been able to stick by itself without blasting or other etching. 

[John348]

12 hours ago, poci1957 said:

OK, so what about tooth for the paint to stick to the surface?  Was there a self etching paint back in the day that could stick well?

 

That really is the point of my question. The metal under this 55+ year old paint has no scuffs, no primer and takes a lot of effort to remove.

Edited November 29, 2016 by John348 (see edit history)

[Guest]

Bake-hardened paints may have also been used in some of these OE applications.  Great stuff for durability and self-leveling of the paint.  That may have also been the reason why an occasional splash of gas or solvent wouldn't usually cause the paint on these trim parts to run or soften, unlike the rattle-can paints.

 

There may have also been some specialty paint formulations only available to the manufacturers that used solvents that are now banned.

 

Also, as mentioned in #37, lead-based paints were probably used, formulations that could give enhanced durability of the paint film and color.

 

In a few cases, powder coating may be a possibility, but not where the part can't stand the oven heat.  My powder coater told me that most all pot metal, for example, will distort or turn into a puddle at typical powder coating oven heats.

[poci1957]

10 hours ago, Writer Jon said:

Bake-hardened paints may have also been used in some of these OE applications.  Great stuff for durability and self-leveling of the paint. 

 

There may have also been some specialty paint formulations only available to the manufacturers that used solvents that are now banned.

 

Also, as mentioned in #37, lead-based paints were probably used, formulations that could give enhanced durability of the paint film and color.

 

This all seems plausible

[Gary_Ash]

I wonder if some type of pad printing was used.  While the current technology wasn't really developed until after WWII, pad printing was used for centuries before that with gelatin-filled bags.  The design to be printed was engraved in a flat plate.  The design was filled with ink, the plate wiped, and the bag pressed down to pick up the ink pattern on the outer surface of the bag.  Then the bag was placed on the part, flat or curved, and pressed down to print the pattern.  These days, I think they have urethane pads to print pens, glasses, computer keys, and myriad other objects.

 

I can't see silk screening on 3D parts like an embossed hub cap or horn button.  I think we would all like to see how it was really done.

[Walt G]

The current paint mentioned to do the job as 'sure shot' and 'one shot' - 1 Shot Lettering Enamel is the correct name, it is a sign painters enamel that was used in mass before all the plastic  adhesive images and lettering you now see came into favor. I have used one shot for 30+ years, is not inexpensive but you can get it in small 4 oz cans at better art stores, not something you will find in a general arts and crafts store. I have used it on replated parts without scuffing the area to be painted and no primer and it sticks pretty well , BUT you have to let it dry thoroughly. Label on can states "For Professional, Commercial and Industrial use in Graphic Arts only"  SO don't repaint a toy and give it to your kids who will then chew on it!  The paint can be brushed on and flows out to look like it was sprayed on with no brush strokes to be seen, practice on something to get the feel of it , see how it flows, if it runs because you are using to much etc.  I taught art for 40+ years and have tried every conceivable type of paint, this is good stuff. Small cans have yellow label, larger cans have white label. you may get more info at www.1shot.com

[Restorer32]

They may have been painted before they were formed. Don't laugh. We reproduced 1960s Mopar carb cover name plates (pie pans) before anyone else was doing them. We spun them in aluminum. Quality was as good as those available today. My point is, we had the various designs silk screened on the aluminum BEFORE it was spun. We made and sold over 100 pieces before that nasty letter arrived from Mopar's lawyers. 1 Shot is made to do exactly what you want to do. It was probably even better back when the gov'mint trusted us with stronger chemicals. I believe Eastwood sells 1 Shot. At least I know they used to.

[Guest Daves Garage]

John, your diligence and patience are admirable. The rear tail light finish trim panel looks awesome! The reward was definitely worth all the tedious work of having to apply the masking tape.

 

Keiser31, the production of those hubcaps must have been a challenging proposition? They appear to be pretty complex, especially considering that the expense has to be recouped out of a 100 caps; 25 cars.

[John348]

1 hour ago, Restorer32 said:

They may have been painted before they were formed. Don't laugh. We reproduced 1960s Mopar carb cover name plates (pie pans) before anyone else was doing them. We spun them in aluminum. Quality was as good as those available today. My point is, we had the various designs silk screened on the aluminum BEFORE it was spun. We made and sold over 100 pieces before that nasty letter arrived from Mopar's lawyers. 1 Shot is made to do exactly what you want to do. It was probably even better back when the gov'mint trusted us with stronger chemicals. I believe Eastwood sells 1 Shot. At least I know they used to.

 

I pretty sure that the wheel covers were not painted, There is a guy in my local VCCA Region who I mentioned in an earlier post who has the samples of the entire stamping process of a 1954 Chevrolet and 1954 Oldsmobile full size wheel covers. This was a sample display showing each step, there were about 15-17 different steps. I don't remember the exact story of how he came upon it, (I was on a mission while he was talking looking for a 59/60 Chevrolet Wonderbar Radio that I never found!) or about the person he got them from. I as I remember he got the set from a guy who's father worked for this tool and die shop and he found them in his father's basement. I will make it a point to get over to his house and get some photos's and the exact information of the shop who did this, before I depart for Florida in 5 weeks. This was one of the coolest things I saw in long time.

There had to be many of these vendors who did this throughout the country. Now I am not sure if this demo kit was to sell the tooling or to sell the actual stamping of the part, I am leaning to think it was the tool and die manufacturer knowing that the set came from this area and there were many tool and die companies supplying aerospace industry, this area was the home of Grumann Aerospace and Fairchild/Republic Aviation and had a ton of these jobber shops all over the place at that time, The last piece in the box was a finished product except for paint and polish, with a card saying "NOW READY FOR SHIPMENT"  which really would make sense because the paint and polish is an entirely different business.

With all of the stretching and bending of the metal in the stamping process I can't see the paint holding up, once you see the photo's you will have to agree, a lot of stuff was going on

Edited November 29, 2016 by John348 (see edit history)

[John348]

14 minutes ago, Daves Garage said:

John, your diligence and patience are admirable. The rear tail light finish trim panel looks awesome! The reward was definitely worth all the tedious work of having to apply the masking tape.

 

Keiser31, the production of those hubcaps must have been a challenging proposition? They appear to be pretty complex, especially considering that the expense has to be recouped out of a 100 caps; 25 cars.

 

Dave, thank-you, yes it was days and had to do it twice do to a mistake on the first round. 

[poci1957]

2 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

They may have been painted before they were formed. Don't laugh. .....we had the various designs silk screened on the aluminum BEFORE it was spun.

 

Actually now that you mention it I recall reading years ago that dashboard trim patterns in the 1940s and 1950s were applied to flat metal panels before stamping.  DiNoc decals, silkscreened treatments, engine turned patterns, etc. were said to be applied that way which makes sense in that it would be much easier to apply to a flat surface as long as the finish would not be damaged in the stamping process. 

[John348]

37 minutes ago, poci1957 said:

 

Actually now that you mention it I recall reading years ago that dashboard trim patterns in the 1940s and 1950s were applied to flat metal panels before stamping.  DiNoc decals, silkscreened treatments, engine turned patterns, etc. were said to be applied that way which makes sense in that it would be much easier to apply to a flat surface as long as the finish would not be damaged in the stamping process. 

 Almost like lithograph toys, I can see it on some parts,

[poci1957]

Just now, John348 said:

 Almost like lithograph toys, I can see it on some parts,

 

Yup, just like that, I had forgotten toys had that too, I bet it was common practice as long as the finish would not be damaged in stamping. 

[Restorer32]

Notice that the black is almost always on the recessed portions, almost never on the raised areas.

[John348]

I went over my friends house to see if I could get some photos of the hubcaps showing the stamping process. They were at another location however he did have these. This is a stencil jig for the plastic painted emblems. The set he had happened to be for the painted plastic emblem on the early corvettes. Everything was keyed and fit perfect into each pocket. He found it this year for sale at Hershey and the seller did not know any of the history of the kit

[avantey]

As part of my career in design I was involved with this kind of detailing on high production parts.  Many times the paint in the depressed or raised area was applied with a pad printing process.  A silicone, urethane or rubber pad of a very specific durometer (hardness) was used in an automated production station.  It would swing to the side and 'dip' into the paint or ink like an ink pad, rotate around and press onto the part with a very specific pressure and travel distance to deposit an exact coating of painting where required.  On a depressed area a secondary station on the automated loop would have a high speed light buffing wheel come down on a programmed path of travel and buff the paint off the high spots.  This was common technology in the '70's and up, not sure when it was developed before that.  In earlier times the hard part would be the pre-CNC travel paths and depth controls but probably very do-able.

 

Silk screen was also a higher production methodology but nowhere near the volume was obtainable and the screens were a lot higher maintenance and shorter life.  It required too much human interaction and consistency of the results varied depending on the locating of the screen, manual application of the ink/paint and other factors.

 

These and other processes are also used to print graphics (logos, instruction, etc.) on many products even today.  It is proven, cost effective and durable on the encasements of many products.