1927Chevy Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Ladies and Gents I was driving down a steep slope in 1st gear slowly as one might do. I wish I did it in second as now my trans is making a noise when driving in first gear that follows a pattern which I will explore Tuesday for more info. I limited my shifting to second and third on the way home and they operate fine. Reverse also seems fine. First gear got an issue. I am thinking the load going down the steep incline moved something inside the trans and now 1st gear aint where its supposed to be. Could it be the forks? comments please Ken Edited May 31, 2016 by 1927Chevy (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Ladies and Gents seller indicates 1923, this has more bolts mounting shifter than mine. otherwise looks very similar. mine has 6 bolts on top this has 8. would like to have a spare to play with before I take the one in the car out. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rohrbach Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Where are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Lake Geneva Wisconsin right now can also be in Chicago pretty fast+6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi is the above transmission which has more bolts on shift cover but looks the same otherwise useable on 1923 EK ? inside parts same ? is it ok to just drive in 2nd and 3rd and use reverse as the seem to be fine ? Want to drive it this summer not fix it. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Why don't you just pull the cover off and take a peek inside? You just line up the sliding gears with the forks to reinstall. If you don't feel like making a new gasket just use some RTV. Also, you can pull the top off the spare trans and see if parts are the same or different. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 There isn't much to go wrong inside. My guess is that you broke or chipped a tooth on 1st gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 been waiting for comments, can pull the cover which I have done before on more modern transmissions never took one apart completely just inspected gears but when I was younger would take apart first ask later now old I ask first take apart later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I don't have my parts manual with a Big Six trans cross section handy but I'm guessing that the Big Six trans is similar to my Light Six. Check out the Light Six photos in another post. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Thank you !! have a great day !! novice question which fork is for 1st gear ? Edited June 1, 2016 by 1927Chevy (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) I looked at the Big Six cross section. It is pretty much set up the same as the Light Six in the photos. Parts book says that most of the internal parts are the same for the Big Six transmissions across model years 1919-1924. The rear fork shifts between 1st and reverse. Scott Edited June 2, 2016 by Stude Light (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) pulled shifter cover. hard to imagine that the forks moved. hard to imagine they bent. I am thinking (please forgive my novice level) that the distance between the fork centers should be measurable and dictated by the neutral location of the rear sliding gear and the front sliding gear on the upper shaft. so I should slide these two gears into a position that they are not in contact with the lower gears, measure that required distance and adjust the forks to that measure. again original issue was a clicking that could be felt and heard but seemed to require a complete revolution then just one click like it was only hitting in one spot. that makes no sense to me as I would think if the rear sliding gear was not far back enough to escape that lower gear so the front sliding gear could engage it would click on every tooth. also a thought has occurred, rear fork or front fork adjustment? if it only happens in first gear then the smaller front sliding gear is making the noise as the large rear sliding gear would be meshed with the lower gear unable to hit anything. but then it should also happen in reverse. why is this noise present. could it be a problem with the 1st gear on the lower shaft? comments please Edited June 4, 2016 by 1927Chevy expand (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) opened it up, looked at it, all looks nice inside, forks do not look like the moved, they seem to heavy to be bend somehow, moved sliding top gears to neutral position and measurements seemed to co-inside with fork location as it was before dismantle therefore did not move, put it back together and it still makes the noise. could it be a bearing in the transmission ? I think no because it would make noise in every gear, I would think. the lower countershaft 1st gear is connected to the 2nd and 3rd gear (one piece) so any load put on any countershaft gear would produce the same noise if a problem existed there. if there was a problem with the spline shaft I would think that it would make noise in every gear. with that stated I am back to the forks. Edited June 4, 2016 by 1927Chevy expand (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 it will be Tuesday before I get back to it, considering taking it for a ride in first gear without shift cover or forks installed, if no noise its the shift forks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Ken, You don't want to drive it without the shift forks/cover in place! The only thing that prevents the gear from sliding into place is the shift fork and both sliding gears will want to move around on that shaft. They can easily try to engage at the same time which will damage the gears and may cause a sudden wheel lock. Have you tried applying pressure on the shifter in both the engage and disengage direction while driving in first gear? If the noise goes away, it would most like be related to the shift fork position. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studeboy Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 What about a chipped gear on the first? One chipped tooth would make a sound on each complete revolution of the shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 thought about that looked and did not see , Tuesday will completely drain and inspect , looking for another trans for parts and experiment , got a couple of days to think about things, would have to find a way to make sure the sliding gears did not move during my experiment, guess I can also just remove trans and take apart for inspection thanks all for help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Have you examined the tips of the forks for wear? If they're substantially worn, they can be built up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 Grimy you got more cars than me !! next week will further examine the trans and forks out of car. I enjoy my cars but am the only one in the garage as no family member has interest. My wife watches movies while I tinker. Am trying to build a pole barn this year as my garage is wall to wall. You must have a huge one. If you were closer would be knocking on your door for some rides. I try to put 300 - 400 miles a year on each car. How about you ? Need some room to expand my tractor collection. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 Studeboy yes, that was my first thought, then I was hoping its the forks, now I can cry in my beer and remove the trans for further examination. Was planning to remove and rebuild my 27 Chevy Sedans engine this summer, off to the backburner. Its to early to have something break, this should happen in October. Thank god I have my other 2 cars to drive around or I would really be crying. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Ladies and Gents well, finally looked inside trans without any oil and sure as **** there it was a missing tooth on the planetary gear. Anyone got an extra gear? Any comments on repairing this one? Will never drive downhill in first gear again. workin on it Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) got the trans above delivered today via USHIP. this is the 4th time and all great delivery experiences. 120 bucks for pick up ohio delivered to Wisconsin. looking for that main gear planetary lower gear to replace broken gear so I have extra trans looking for a big six that would fit 1923 would consider other years I think rbk might have one also would consider a 1923 rolling chassis with engine and trans etc Edited June 11, 2016 by 1927Chevy luck (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 opened up replacement transmission and the planetary or countershaft gears first gear is chipped in many places. I guess its better than a first gear missing a tooth. will probably just swap transmissions and hunt down another planetary or countershaft gear does anyone know if it has to be big six or can it be light six planetary or countershaft gear????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) The Big Six and Special Six share the same countershaft and countershaft gears for 1920 - 1924. The reverse gear is part of the countershaft itself. Low (1st), intermediate (2nd) and the countershaft drive gear are all independent gears. Part numbers are.... Countershaft assembly (includes shaft and all gears) 39022 Countershaft only 39044 Low gear (1st) 31899 Intermediate gear (2nd) 39012 Drive gear (this is the largest gear) 39024 Part 31899 is also shared with the 1919 models. The Light Six countershaft gears are manufactured as a single assembly (multiple gears machined from a single forging) and have nothing in common with your Big Six. You could try dressing up and smoothing the nicks in the gear from your replacement trans and see how it goes. Scott Edited June 13, 2016 by Stude Light format (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 Scott thank you very much for your help. I am considering all options and your guidance allows me to plan better. I hope to provide help for you some day. I assumed all gears were one unit and now am thinking it might be easier to deal with a single gear problem rather than a larger one unit problem. My EK has low mileage and the inside of the trans that broke is amazingly nice otherwise as all gears except the first gear appear almost new. In contrast the replacement trans looks like someone was not nice with first gear. I have to go back to work in morning but hope to do something later this week. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 Hi anyone got 2 of the Studebaker 31899 gears will buy, perhaps RBK over in Joilet area close to my home in sw Chicago 111th Pulaski. Will also consider any 1923 Big six trans with nice gears. Any parts for 1923 Big Six also. Could someone send me a private message as I am thinking something is wrong with my mail box. Perhaps just something wrong with this old man here. The old man Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Glad to help Ken. Here is a bit more detail. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Why did the tooth break off? Something out of alignment? Bearing problem? Crystallized metal? Sudden large load on it? Maybe something else needs attention to prevent a recurrence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 Spinney Thanks for your comments!! Yes I was driving down a steep hill with some very old ladies in the back seat so I just left it in first and let the gear control the decent. I will never do that again as the load was to much, the gear that lost the tooth is pristine otherwise. I am almost thinking that the gear must of had some defect. I purchased the car from a couple of old timers AACA guys a couple of years ago and they told me only 18500 miles on it. They told me they have been around and owned the car for 40 years. Going to take something apart this week either the trans that broke or the replacement as the first gear is not so nice in that one, its chipped in many places but has all the teeth. Just like me. Hoping to find a replacement gear. Soooo will take my time fixing this problem and drive around in my old Chevy Touring car. Hows things down under !! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) Ken, You mentioned that your replacement gear has many nicks. On a sliding gear trans it isn't that unusual for the engaging edge of the gear teeth (along the side) to get some nicks which is usually the result of a hard clash. These nicks generally don't cause an issue or weaken the gear, however, nicks or chips on the gear face will cause noise and will reduce gear life as they will cause the engaging gear to also wear on the face. Chips or nicks in the flank will cause stress risers and greatly weaken the gear tooth. So inspect the gear well and make a judgment call based on that inspection to determine if you want to use that gear. You could always post some clear photos using the macro option on your camera (usually depicted by the flower if you aren't familiar with that) and get some feedback from the forum before you go through the trouble of reassembling. Scott Edited June 14, 2016 by Stude Light (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 Scott you are the best !! will probably take the replacement apart Wednesday will take pics and post. More soon. Stuck at work in Chicago for now. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 taking apart the replacement trans ran in to obstacle the front flange does not want to come off. my oxygen and acetylene tanks in Chicago of course and I am in Wisconsin. tried to heat with mapp torch no luck. would also like to make a flat plate that bolts to flange with hole in middle to better grab with puller. short of taking it to a boat shop around here and let them pull it will have to wait for Sunday return to Chicago. man I was looking at those tanks before I left and elected to leave them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 After a few beers I remembered it's fathers day soon, so I sent my son over to home depot and had him purchase a new Milwaukee 1/2 inch drive corded electric impact and a set of Lincoln electric oxygen and acetylene tanks for DAD, wow its great being a father today. now do not have to carry these tools back and forth have one in each garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 TRANSMISSION DISASSEMBLY 1) Remove Transmission pinion carrier assembly (6-T-1) leaving the flange on. This assumes that the bearing is good as well as the gear. Disassembled (7-T-1). To remove the assembly unbolt the retainer found at top of case and remove from slot then unscrew rear adjustor. 2) Remove rear flange and speedometer gear. (8-T-1) 3) the upper shaft and sliding gears can then be removed. 4) Remove 4 bolts lower rear of transmission as well as 4 bolts side cover with reverse gear of course remove both covers. at this point the lower countershaft can be removed. 1st gear is nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Things I found out 1) there are a couple of different cases the above one is probably the later model. 2) you probably do not need to heat anything. I somehow concluded that I needed to remove the front flange (need to read instructions many times here) this is not easy and requires heat and for sure you will bend the fingers doing this with a puller. 3) the couple of different cases helped me get confused as the service manual has pics of both. MY NEW DILEMA The gears on the countershaft are riveted and I think the rivets can be seen in the above picture of the damaged first gear. I guess I should grind the head of the rivet off heat the gear and try to pull off. COMMENTS PLEASE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Ken, Yep, that 1st gear is a bit rough. Considering you don't have a large supply of spare parts, I would: 1) Not disassemble the countershaft assembly 2) Get a Dremmel tool and dress up the sharp edges and burrs on that gear 3) Swap all the gears between transmission cases, including the countershafts as an assembly The first gear engagement may be a little harder than with a pristine gear but you are usually at a stop so it shouldn't matter. Don't try downshifting into first and baby that gear a bit. I think you'll be okay. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1927Chevy Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Scott thinking about looking for someone that can make a gear. any suggestions on what type of machine shop appreciated. will probably just leave the trans with missing tooth in car and drive without first gear. I do not drive it much. In the mean time would like to experiment on the countershaft assembly taking the rivets out and removing the nasty gear. would leave second and third alone in the replacement countershaft. Any thoughts on who might have a gear nos? Any thoughts on taking it to a welding shop and having some fillings installed in the teeth. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The only gear I had made was a hydraulic pump gear. I had a company draw up the gear and tooth profile based on the broken part and EDM the part from a piece of D2 tool steel (from some 1/2" flatstock). Afterwards it was heat treated. That was a long time ago. Perhaps someone else has some recent experience with someone that specializes in that . I really doubt you could get the strength needed with a welded part. No idea if a NOS part exists. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) Look for a gear cutter shop. Two are listed in the yellow pages in this city of 100,000. Or visit some gearbox specialty shops and pick their brains. DON'T take that gear off until you have shown it to the experts and a gear cutter. You don't know how it is mounted. And riveting it back on is not trivial! Edited June 17, 2016 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Ken, Taking another look at close ups of the first gear......the gear face looks really spalled (I originally thought that was just grease or dirt) so you will probably need to replace it. New rivets will probably need to be machined up too. There are four of them in shear across their length, so they don't need to be super strong so I'm guessing they just used mild steel. Take a file to the head and I'll bet they are pretty soft. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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