cragar s/s fitting

[devildog93]

Has anyone fit cragar ss wheels on a 1st gen? I ask because i can get a heck of a deal on a set through a buddy who works as a mechanic at Pep Boys. The rally wheels i am running currently are shot with rust and scale. I descaled one by immersion in a tank of washing soda and the use of a battery charger. The good news is that all the scale disappeared. The bad - well, they don't seal now. Too much material lost. Here is my best guess as to what i am hoping will fit:

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crr-610p775042/overview/

 

610P775042 is the part number. Is there anything i need to watch out for in fitting/ordering? These will have to be special order through pep boys i am sure. but i think the discount will make it worth it.

 

thanks in advance,

 

- Jeff

[steelman]

I knew I had a picture somewhere, just took a few minutes to find it. Over 500 Riviera pictures in my library, this is the only one I have with Cragar S/S wheels on it. Hope it helps.

[Guest Gseago]

You'll need spacers, not sure of the thickness.

[devildog93]

I'm not sure why i would need a spacer. Could you elaborate?

[steelman]

Two reasons. First to clear the hub to drum rivets and second, to clear the fins on the brake drums. You might get around both of these, depending on the diameter of the wheels and if you grind the heads off the rivets.

[RivNut]

The Boss wheels that I have for my '64 have openings on the back of the bolt surface that allow me to keep the rivets and they're big enough (20") to clear the fins on the drums.  If there's enough meat on the wheel, a machinist could probably make room for the rivets.

 

Ed

[Rivdrivn]

Hi Jeff, watch out for too much back space (stock is 3 and 3/8) and also the size of the center hole being too small (the hub is 3 and 5/8 I think). If you search this forum, you will find some previous discussion on these fitment issues. Your wheel has positive offset plus too much backspace, doesn't specify the center bore either. Spacers might help. I've also been working on a 17 inch wheel solution but so far it requires a bit too much calculating for my taste. Good luck hunting!

[Guest Gseago]

Thanks for posting the explanation steelman. I got kind of busy and didn't get back on the forum until now.

[devildog93]

Thanks for all the info fellas. So it sounds like the spacer may help on the backspacing a bit. I'm going to take a look at the rivets again to see what you're talking about there. I was aware of the center possibly being an issue, but i think clearing the fins should not be. If it is then i will just convert the front drum brakes to disc. That's on the list of upgrades at some point anyway. I'm just tying to eliminate 15 trips back and forth or making plans for something that won't even work.

Edited October 24, 2015 by devildog93 (see edit history)

[steelman]

Spacer will also take care of the center hole issue.

[rodneybeauchamp]

Any chance you could post a picture of Cragar SS on your Riviera. I'm contemplating this conversion myself on an Arctic White 1963 with white wall tyres but have seen very few pictures of the conversion. As much as I like the 65 sport wheels, so has every second Riviera owner, so looking for something different. Want to stay period look so would be a 6 inch rim, rather than 7 but might be swayed by others. Any thoughts.

Rodney

[RivNut]

There's one I found on Google images.  I don't know about your stance but this car has the same details.  Scroll down and you'll find two pictures.

 

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/41860

 

 

 

 

[devildog93]

Unfortunately, i don't know about my stance either. I'm wanting to go back fairly stock, but i can't even be sure what that is right now. My front springs are worn badly with the driver's side being the worst. I'm going to get springs/shocks all the way around most likely. I guess worst case scenario i can wait until it is driver ready and drive it down and have them fitted. This project is in a holding pattern at the moment while i try and shift it back to my home setup. Hopefully once i get it home i will have less distractions and a little more alone time to work on everything. Bodywork and bs'ing shop buddies doesn't seem to go together.

 

On the plus side i got a few things for my home shop : a hypertherm 30xp plasma cutter, a curtis ct5 air compressor with a 2 stage pump, and a hobart ironman 230 mig/tig welder. Once this move is done i should get rolling pretty well. Maybe that's pushing it, but tools shouldn't be an excuse. I have a 1984 bronco project i am clearing out of my garage and swapping with the buick so i have room for the riviera only at home. With the bronco at the shop i shouldn't have any reason to not finish the buick out here.

 

The wheels are more of an annoyance than anything. I took the old wheels and de-rusted them to the best of my ability using a tub and electrolysis. I got all i could off, but i still have a couple of wheels i have to air up every other day. It's just annoying so i thought i would go ahead and get the wheels as soon as i can if i could find an off the shelf fix or something  not too difficult.

 

- Jeff

[RivNut]

What wheels are you trying to de-rust?  On my old bicycles, I use some different methods of removing rust depending on what the part is and if the rust is surface rust or if it has pitted the surface.  Rust removal also depends on the original surface - raw steel, or chrome plated.  I'm making references here to methods I've used at home to de-rust both car and bicycle parts. 

1) Oxalic Acid - you can pay big bucks for it at the home improvement store when you purchase Wood Bleach, or you can buy it by the pound on eBay.  Oxalic acid is a powder that you mix in water.  You soak the part and "encourage" the rust to come off with a stiff brush after it has soaked for a while.  Don't let it sit too long and rinse thoroughly.  Biodegadable

 

 

2) Molasses - not the kind in your wife's cabinet but the kind you buy at the livestock feed store.  1 part of molasses to 9 parts of water.  Let it soak for a long time, and occasionally stir the solution and brush the parts.  Molasses has a sweet smell so you'll want to have a cover that pretty much seals the smell.  When you remove the part, rinse thoroughly then treat with POR 15 Metal Prep.  Don't use on anything that has any pot metal parts.  Ask me how I know.  I was soaking my power seat frame for a couple of weeks.  Pulled it out and the threads on the transmission where the cables attach were no longer there.  Biodegradable.  Watch Part 1 of  this YouTube video and at the end, click for Part 2.

 

3) Muriatic acid - works quickly on small parts.  Doesn't take long and the acid fumes are noxious.  Do it outside with plenty of ventilation.  After it's been diluted with lot of water, you can pour it out.  It's great for cleaning concrete.

 

4) Evaporust - Follow the directions on the bottle.  You can buy it by the gallon at Harbor Freight.  With a 20% off coupon it's about $20 per gallon.  It's reusable and biodegradable.

 

5) A pad of aluminum foil.  Tear off a big piece from your wife's roll and take it to the garage.  Fold a square into a pad.  Get the pad wet and use it as you would wet-dry sandpaper to remove surface rust.

 

 

I'm including some before and after pictures of a Schwinn bike on which I used the oxalic acid and aluminum foil on to clean the chrome parts..  No pitting, just lots of surface rust from being dirty and sitting in a barn for years.  No re-chroming of anything.   (The dents in the fender were removed with an English wheel.)

Edited January 23, 2016 by RivNut (see edit history)

[devildog93]

I guess i wasn't clear enough. I got all the rust off, but it left a LOT of pits and won't seal for crap on a couple of the wheels, I started with evaporust, then ended up trying the electrolysis tub with washing soda. It took every bit of rust off the wheel overnight and stuck all the rust to the rebar i had in the tub surrounding it. I am going to use a slow charger,rebar, and washing soda to de-rust every part i can from now on. The only by-product is rusty rebar. Much better imho than chemically removing it. Of course not everything can fit in a tub, so i am sure the evaporust will get used. I even used a little tire snot to seal the bead. Basically, they are trash. So it's either get new wheels and tires, or keep airing it up every couple of days when i want to move it. I guess it isn't that big of a deal. Once i get it home i can just put it on jack stands.

[Zimm63]

Add a tube?

[devildog93]

Got the wheels i have to seal, so i don't have to worry as much about airing tires as i do other things to it. Now i'm just looking for wheels that might fit. Has anyone run torq thrust m's? All i had around the shop to test fit were some old american racing rims for a chevy truck. They worked and gave me an idea of the stance and how wide of a tire i can go, but the design was fugly. We seem to only have complete sets of the ugliest rims ever made or ford rims, lots of those.