National Award

[paul455]

Our car was shown in Hershey last week and tody I recieved a letter that it was nominated for a National Award. Can any one tell me what this is about? How many cars are nomiated, are there different classes, are they 1st-2nd-3rd's, how many are given out? How do they determine what cars are nominated and what is the criteria for winning.<BR>Thanks Paul Gawel

[ronbarn]

The National Awards program is a separate function from the AACA Class Judging. A special team of highly experienced judges, under the direction of the AACA Vice President National Awards goes on the field at every National Meet and the AGNM. The team also operates during the National Tours.<BR>They look at all of the cars to select the best according to the criteria specified for each award. They do not point judge the cars but do coordinate the selected vehicles with the VP Class Judging to see how well they scored during the regular judging.<P>There are 30 National Awards, however some of these may be awarded to vehicles in National Meets in each Division (Eastern, Southeastern, Central and Western) and there may be ties. Many of the awards are limited to specific makes and/or years. One of the awards is for race vehicles and there is even one for powered bikes and motorscooters. A complete description of the awards is in the AACA Policy and Procedures Manual and in the AACA Awards book which is published annually. Generally around 150-200 vehicles are nominated and around 75 awards are presented at the Annual Meeting in Philadelphia in February. There are no 1st, 2nd, and 3rd - just Award Winners.<BR>To be nominated is indeed an honor in itself. To win is of course very prestigious. I highly recommend that you carefully follow the instructions in the notification letter, and best wishes for success. <p>[This message has been edited by ronbarn (edited 10-14-2000).]

[Rick Hoover]

Paul,<BR>Congratulations!<BR>As Ron just said, 'To be nominated is indeed a honor in itself.' That Buick GS looks fantastic!<BR>Rick

[Guest]

Boy, is our VP of National Awards on the ball. Here we are, one week after Hershey, and the letters are out. Never saw it done this quickly when I served on the National Awards Committe. Outstanding job by VP Joe Vicini. ~ hvs<P>PS: As a former Committee member I can attest to the fact that it is an HONOR to be nominated. Congrats.

[paul455]

Thanks Rick! Jack would be glad to hear this complement, especially from you! He told us that he has had a lot of cars nominated, but none has ever won. We would like to be the first win for him, but as you said we are honored to be nominated. Thanks Paul

[Ron Green]

My car has also been nominated for a National Award. Thanks for all the information Ron Barn. If I understand your comments correctly the car is nominated for a specific award only (?) with some awards only having one winner like the Ford Award, Annual Grand National Award, etc. and others having more then one winner with the different divisions? Thanks!

[ronbarn]

My earlier explanation was intentionally simple because the actual award determination can be something like a chess game. Some vehicles will only qualify for a single award, for example there is only one motorcycle, one minicycle, and one HPOF award. On the other hand if a 1930 Packard (again only an example) is shown at a Spring and a Fall Meet, it might qualify for the Parkin (Packards only) Award, the Melton Cup, the President's Cup and some others. This gives the Committee some flexibility to spread the wealth, so to speak.

[Tom Deering]

ronbarn,<BR> The nomination criteria was explained very well. Now for step 2;<BR>the actual selection of the winning vehicle in relation to it's peers is what? Is the composition or quality of the photo submitted by the contestant a selection factor? I have a jillion questions on this topic! <BR> Respectfully, Tom

[ronbarn]

Tom, that's a legitimate question but a difficult one to answer. Following in my attempt to make it understandable, based on having observed and participating in the National Award sessions several years ago.<P>The National Awards team gets together at every National Meet. They have forms which identifies the various awards being considered and are assigned in teams of one or two individuals to look are various classes. Specific assignments depend on the size of the meet and the number of NA Committee members available. The sub-teams look at their assigned classes and report their findings. After the initial review, other members of the committee may be assigned to go on the field to double check the initial review. These results are all compiled to make an initial cut on the selected potential winners.<P>At a later date the list is compared to the actual judging scores. Since the NA Committee, with limited members in some cases, must look at all of the vehicles, there has been the case when a particularly good looking vehicle has been selected as a candidate, but scored low due to problems not initially found by the NA Committee. These vehicles are then eliminated.<P>During the annual meeting in December when the photos of the cars are reviewed and the award decisions are made, the committee members who made the selections in the first place are in attendance. At this point I must be candid. Ideally, the memories of the individual Committee members and their explanation of their recollections should be adequate to support a proper award selection. Does the composition and quality of the photos make a difference? Ideally, no. <P>Hope this helps. Ron<P>ps: would love to have some help from others if this explanation is off base.

[Guest]

I too served on the National Awards Committee for a number of years. Father Ron's explanation of how the selection process works is quite accurate and complete.<BR>All those who have wondered how it works and happen to read this thread, will benefit from his explanation. ~ hvs

[Tom Deering]

Thanks ronbarn,<BR> I Have read and re-read this thread, and analyzed the daylights out of the 2000 "AACA AWARDS BOOK".<BR>It all makes a lot more sense now. Let me try to explain why I was confused in the first place. I have two cars that are shown in the same class at separate times. Each car scores well enough to attain the desired award, so I don't have a clue as to their actual numerical score. However; Neither car could ever score 400 points. That is a Lead Pipe certainty! A few years ago,when I first joined AACA, the Red Car got "The Letter". Not knowing anything about Annual Awards, I went out and took the first color slide pictures in my life and followed the whole submittal procedure. Last year, I showed the Black Car for the first time and received "The Letter" for it. This time I figured; why bother.<BR>I've been driving this turkey for three years since it's restoration and there are a lot better cars out there! So I did nothing. <BR> As best as I can determine, there are about four or five National Awards for which my cars CLASS could qualify. For 1999, these awards were won by a four cars owned by the same person! Why did one person win four awards? HIS CARS ARE JUST PLAIN PERFECT! He finds the most glamorous models, thoroughly researches every aspect, flawlessly performs the restoration, and then presents them impeccably preened for the show. His cars simply "outclass" any competition. I hope he continues to restore and show his cars and as long as he does; He deserves to "WIN IT ALL". In the meantime; I'll continue to enjoy admiring his cars, and save money on film.<BR>DISCLAIMER: If anyone reading this twists it around to be "Sour Grapes", please read it again. Tom

[Guest]

Since we've got this one rolling, I 've got more questions. Are there judging forms used by those who judge for National Awards Does every vehicle start with some total from which points are deducted--like judging at a National Meet? If not how are vehicles judged? Is it basically a subjective evaluation on the part of those who do the judging? If I read the comments correctly, there is really nothing an individual can do to prepare a vehicle for this competition--other than have a nicely restored, perhaps glamoruous machine. Tell me more.

[ronbarn]

There is no National Awards judging form similar to the AACA Class Judging form. As mentioned in an earlier post, the Class Judging forms for all potential candidates are reviewed, primarily for purposes of elimination rather than selection. When I was on the NA Committee the actual scores were not even mentioned during the award selection meeting. I don't know if it is done now.<P>There is a form which includes a brief of the criteria for each award and spaces for notes. As you well know, really good vehicles just seem to stand out and grab you. Even the plain janes can get your attention. The NA judges are very experienced. Don't know the exact current numbers but I suspect that the average judging credits exceeds 75 per individual. These judges are able to briefly look at each vehicle and quickly determine if it is good enough for a first cut. As mentioned earlier, another pair of NA judges will go out for a second look while the vehicles are still on the filed. This is the second cut. The results are then entered in a database for furthur evaluation. This is a complex procedure, but one that has endured with selection of really outstanding restorations (except, of course for the HPOF award) as the winners.<P>How do you prepare a vehicle for this level of competition? Deering answered that question quite well - select a good model, thoroughly research all details, and do an outstanding restoration.<P>Why do some individuals seem to be consistent winners? Some individuals, such as Jerry Capizzi and the late Benny Bootle and a couple of others just simply get an outstanding restoration accomplished on a regular basis. Please don't bring up the "P" word, but I must say that when I was on the NA Committee politics was never a factor and knowing the individuals assigned to the committee, I am personally confident that they are unbiased and will not be swayed by any personal venue. They are simply looking for the best vehicles for the specified awards.

[Guest]

Isn't this DF great!. I've been a member since 1964 and never really gotten detailed answers to these questions until now. Thanks.

[Guest]

Not all National Award winners are flashy models painted eye catching colors. I recall in my National Award Committee years a 1952 or '53 Ford basic mainliner [i think that is what the bottom of the line was called] sedan in PLAIN BLACK winning a National Award. The car was perfect. Just PLAIN, but perfect. hvs

[Tom Deering]

ronbarn,<BR> There is absolutely no question that the Cream Of The Crop win the Annual Awards. It would have to be an ovewhelming coincidence that Pol---cs could possibly influence the outcome.<BR>I am familiar with Benny Bootle's T-Birds from CTCI National (Bi-Annual) Shows. He truly set the Standard For Excellence With his '57.<BR>Since joining AACA, I see he covered a broad spectrum of Ford cars. I'm sure those were flawless examples as well. I first became aware of Jerry Capizzi's Works of Art at CTCI Nationals also. I don't think AACA has enough Annual Awards to adequately recognize all of the Capizzi Jewels.<BR>I think 7 or 8 of his Masterpieces have won Annual Awards since '94. And all of his cars didn't win!<BR>Now to HVS; One of the things that has really impressed me about AACA is the fact that a Mundane Working Mans' Car Like a '53 Ford Mainline or Customline has just as good a chance of earning a Sr. Grand Nat'l Award as its' big brother '53 Lincoln Capri.<BR>Now I've always subscribed to the automotive school of KISS (keep it simple stupid). I also believe this philosophy is especially true in showing a car. Fancy doo-dads and power accessories only translate into potential point deductions, and don't earn you any Brownie Points. Don't you think the Annual Award (all other factors being equal) should be awarded to the more complex restoration? After all; that '53 Ford owner could have had ALL his exterior chrome replated for about the same effort, cost etc. as the '53 Lincoln owner spent restoring FOUR EMBLEMS on the exterior of his car! That is not an exaggeration. Somewhere,somehow those "Lincoln Type" owners need to be rewarded for their extraordinary efforts. "El Cheapo" Tom

[ronbarn]

Tom - I know you asked Howard and he will certainly respond in his time (probably after he returns from the Glidden) but I will leap in with my response - NO repeat NO. Our purpose is to preserve history and the plain janes of automotive history are just as important as the gee whiz supermobiles. I will admit that I tend to look at the high dollar whizmobiles more often than the plain janes, but historically they both are very important to our goals and objectives. The plain janes deserve the credits for their owners efforts.

[Jim Bollman]

I agree that all trim levels and makes should be included on an equal bases. Even though some of the high end models are still restored by the owner, I would bet more are done with a check book. The cheaper models and makes give less deep pockets an equal chance in the shows. It is the level playing field that I like about AACA Judging.<P>I judged a non-AACA meet only once and had to argue with my co-judge that an almost perfect Rambler station wagon deserved to be the winter over an Avanti that was nice but had many things wrong with it. His reasoning was it would cost more to restore the Avanti (it wasn't restored just fixed up).<P>Jim...<P>

[Guest]

Tom ~ Getting ready to leave for Tucson and the Glidden Tour, but wanted to get back on this subject. I am of the same mind as Ron and Jim Bollman on this. <P>The National Awards should be based on workmanship and authenticity, not on the dollars spent to achieve it.<P>I'm outta here ~ Howard

[novaman]

I agree with Jim.<P>If we go starting to make awards based on how deep your pockets are, we're going to lose members or have a hard time getting new ones. As time goes on, the cars are now going to get harder nad harder for the "shadetree" restorer to do because of the electronics and such. AACA is wanting to get young folks to join. With $$ based awards, that is what people are going to see and remember the most. The young guy making $15K a year is not going to have ANY interest in joining after seeing an award given to a car that requires you to spend $50K-up in order to qualify. If anything, it'd be nice to have an award for the shadetree guys who do it all themselves, not like one guy I met a Hershey serveral years ago.<P>This guy went on about how he restored this car (brass era or shortly later- I forgot what the car was). He was neatly dressed, hair all in place, no dirt on his hands or under his nails, no scars from busted knuckles. As he went on telling about how he restored this car himself, it came out that he owns a car dealership. As he went on, it seems the guys in the body shop did the body work and paint while the guys in the mechanic shop rebiult the engine and chassis. This came out and most of the crowd there left in disgust.<P>We need to try to keep the judging for all the cars on a level playing field. By doing so, the poor guy can be just as proud of his plain janer as the rich guy is of his flashy, expensive car. To be honest, the poor guy probably has more fun with his car and that is what this hobby is suppose to be about.<p>[This message has been edited by novaman (edited 10-19-2000).]

[Tom Deering]

Whoa Nellie!!<BR> Would you guys please take a look at the 2000 Nat'l Awards Book. Between pages 91 and 100, there are at least Five Annual Awards that I am calling "Brand Specific" for a Make of car that is above the "Popular Priced" Ford, Chevy, genre. Call them Prestige models if you will. If you can have a Foo-Dog (love that name) for a Rolls Royce or a Parkin for a Packard and a separate ACD Award for those beauties; Why then must the Lincoln share the "Mixed Makes" Annual Awards. Now I didn't invent these "Prestige Model" Awards, so don't be getting on my case when I suggest the same recognition be accorded other Luxury labels.<BR>Novaman, we are going to have to agree to disagree on your hypothetical 15K/Annum hobbiest who "Does everything himself". THAT IS A MYTH! I have never met a man who plated a bumper in his bathtub! In many jurisdictions, you can't even PAINT LEGALLY without thousands of dollars of equipment. As far as 15K/annum is concerned; that is approx. 1.8K above minimum wage in this state. Anybody who is in this hobby at that rate of pay has got to be living with Mom & Dad using Dad's tools and hogging up the garage with his toy(s). He would be well advised to return to school to train for a more productive career, and make a life for himself. If this is the type of person we are trying to recruit into the hobby; then I'm afraid our priorities are screwed up! I've heard your opinion; you've heard mine. Let's not shove our opinions down each others throats. Respectfully, Tom

[ronbarn]

OK guys - be nice. I think it is pretty much a given that few of our hobbiests and AACA members are living below the poverty line. While at the same time, there are many who live with fairly modest incomes. They may not own the Auburns, Cords, Duesenbergs, Rolls, etc., but they can still have a nice car with some prudent care and work.<P>We all see price increases for certain operations, such as chroming and painting. The EPA is not our best friend as far as our hobby concern. Alternative processes may be the norm in the future.<P>As for the National Awards (the subject here), I am not sure about the original awards, however. currently they are established by individuals or organizations who identify a category, establish a criteria, and make a donation which covers the annual cost for the award. This is all spelled out in the AACA Policy and Procedures Manual. Yes, some awards are for what are restricted to the high dollar vehicles, but many cover the lower value vehicles. To cite a few of the awards as an implication that the National Awards only include the high dollar vehicles is simply incorrect.

[novaman]

I was only coming from the view point of what is going to turn off younger members. Here in NC there are a lot of people who work in mills that don't make a lot of money. Alot of younger people, if they didn't get into the techonogly courses in school end up taking min. wage jobs to about $7.50 an hour jobs. What did your first job pay? Think about it. I do make more than the $15k I used as an example because, I know younger people than me, that love old cars and might have been able to get to join AACA if the money was an issue. They knew what it would take to have a show car and it was too much and they didn't want to join since they couldn't afford something to show even on a local level.<BR>Okay Tom, you got me on the bumpers. I didn't mean that statement of doing everything to that extreme. <P>As for that remark about living with mom & dad and using the garage. I ressemble that remark. I lived with my parent 'til a year and a half ago, when I bought a house. I'm 34. If I had gone out and rented an apartment around here I'd be paying $50 -$150/month more than my mortgage is now. Avearage apprtment is $600+/monthly. I'd never be able to buy a house at that rate. Over the years it was some $ for old car, some,$ for house. at that rate. I still SHARE the garage with my dad as we work on the cars together using MY tools. My dad doesn't have any of the specailized tools needed. I do, after working as a mechanic.<BR>I'm not trying to cram anything down anyones throat. I'm just trying to remind people of the little guy struggling to do something he enjoys. <P>My orginal post here was in response to Tom's statement of "Don't you think the Annual Award (all other factors being equal) should be awarded to the more complex restoration? After all; that '53 Ford owner could have had ALL his exterior chrome replated for about the same effort, cost etc. as the '53 Lincoln owner spent restoring FOUR EMBLEMS on the exterior of his car! That is not an exaggeration. Somewhere,somehow those "Lincoln Type" owners need to be rewarded for their extraordinary efforts. " To me it says "lets give the award to the person who spends the most money". Anyone else see it that way?<P>I'm done.<p>[This message has been edited by novaman (edited 10-19-2000).]

[Jim Bollman]

Thanks Ron, <P>I assumed that the special awards were sponsored in some way.<P> So if any person/group wants a type of car honored, they need to find a group/person to sponsor the award by the rules. <P>Sounds like a plan.<P>Jim...<P>

[ronbarn]

There are three parts to getting a National Award established:<P>1. There must be a perceived need for the award, the National Awards Committee must be convinced that the award is needed, and then the AACA Board of Directors must be convinced.<P>2. Some individual or group (for example an AACA region or chapter) must come up with $2000 to pay for the silver trays which are awarded to the winner each year. This is a one time endowment type of donation.<P>3. Some type of permanent "trophy" must be made available to commemorate the award. This trophy will be displayed at the National Headquarters and the winners name are engraved on the award or the mounting for the award.<P>We are going through this process at this time, not for a vehicle, but for webmasters of AACA region and chapter websites.

[Rick Lay]

If you have not done so, you really should see the actual trophies that the silver trays represent. As Ronbarn said, they are at National headquarters at Hershey in lighted display cases. I looked at them again this year - many are actual racing trophies won during the earlier part of the 20th century. Many are very ornate and some downright huge!<BR>I must admit I am particularly fond of the "Foo Dog" trophy which is, as described in the winner book, a " rare and unusual work of Chinese art." Even more interesting are the stories behind the folks who gave these awards. D. Cameron Peck established the Foo Dog Award, and is an interesting individual - as is James Melton, the opera singer, who established the Melton Cup.<P>I will make one more comment and then I'll hush. The way these awards are presented in Philadelphia really adds to their being something really special - a slide is shown of the winning vehicle simultaneously with a slide of the actual trophy itself and a little of the history behind it. With the dimmed lights and the spotlight on the winners as they receive their tray - well, it is quite a moment for the winner, to say the least.

[Guest]

I was not aware that you had to take your car to Hershey and show it to be nominate for a national award, and Howard should ask why there is a problem in the West or do I have to remind him what took place at the Queen Mary, City of Industry, and Santa Barbara,ect!

[Guest]

Mr. Coupe. ~ You do NOT have to show a car at Hershey to be eligible for, or win a National Award. In fact there are several Divisional National Awards which can only be won by vehicles shown at a Western Division Meet. Same applies to the Eastern, Central and Southeastern Divisions. Showing at Hershey will not get you a Western Division Award if you didn't show in the West. Hershey only qualifies you for Eastern Division Awards or the non divisional awards.<BR>However, showing a vehicle in all four divisions in the same year and scoring say 398 or better at all four Meets will get you more consideration than a single showing and earning 398 points.<P>Now as to the three Meets mentioned. I was at the first two but not Santa Barbara. I still have my complete file in the goings on at the Queen Mary Meet, but that was 20 years ago. Not relevent to today I don't think. The only thing that stands out from the City of Industry Meet was the gorgeous babe on the escalator. That eclipsed everything else. <P>I cannot seem to make the connection between the three Meets mentioned and National Awards. E-mail me some particulars so I can make the connection. HVScotyard@aol.com ~ Howard<BR>

[ronbarn]

Howard, I am also puzzled by Mr. Coupe's comments. I reread the thread and cannot find anything that would indicate that a vehicle had to be shown at Hershey to qualify. The permanent trophies, but not the silver plates which are given to a recipient are kept at our Hershey Headquarters. The awards are presented at the Annual Meeting in Philadelphia, a long way from Hershey at a different time of the year. Would like to read Mr. Coupe's rationale for his conclusion.

[Steve Moskowitz]

lest anyone think that getting a new national award approved is an impossibility i can attest that is not the case. just a few years ago i approached oldsmobile division and aaca about an award for america's oldest surviving car company and it was approved. today we have the ransom e. oldsmobile memorial award and my company donated the trophy. i would urge others to go forward if they ahve a desire and it makes sense. with the recent sad news about oldsmobile the award makes more sense than ever. although i will never change my "handle" this oldscarnut has shed a lot of tears this past week. by the way, anyone want to buy an olds dealership...mine is for sale and quite reasonable!

[paul455]

I would like to thank all who answer my originals question on this thread. All of your imput has been were helpful. I have one final question, My wife wants to know what the dress code is for the dinner, because today we recieved the letter from the AACA informing us that we have inded won a National Award! We are honored and very excited! and would not miss it for anything!!<BR>Thanks All and Have a safe and Happy Holiday!<BR>Paul and Lynn Gawel

[Guest]

Steve ~ Are you one of those few Oldsmobile dealers who is exclusively Olds? ~ Howard

[ronbarn]

Paul455 - Congrats. Looking forward to seeing you and your wife receive your award at the Annual Meeting. As for dress code, in Philly dress warm and for the Awards Banquet I guess for men you would call it business suit and for women nice dress/pants suit - whatever. It is not a black tie/tuxedo event. Also thanx for starting this thread. I think it helped clear up the National Awards for many of the readers.

[Steve Moskowitz]

mr.scotland, sorry is appreciated. the only thing getting me thru this difficult time is the outpouring af friendship from our customers (this store has been here since 1923), friends etc. there are no gaurantees in life and this is one more instance that proves that you have to live each day fully. some of the crap we get caught up in our daily lives and in our pettiness in this hobby pales in comparison when you see peoples lives being damaged. i have 30 years of my life wrapped up with olds both as an employee and here at the dealership. i know most gm executives on a first name basis and can not believe they have done this. my bodyman who started here out of high school in 1953 has never known anything but oldsmobile, i have three techs that started here out of high school and who now have over 30 years each of seniority. i have always thought of myself as "mr. olds" but now realize that each and every one of them felt the same way. this is being repeated at many delaerships thruout the country. agin thanks for the condolences...my lifestyle may be changing but my love for old cars and especially oldsmobiles will always remain strong!

[Steve Moskowitz]

howard, yes i am one of the 63 remaining exclusive olds dealers and one of their top 150 volume stores (2801 dealers). i can not believe that this is happening...the level of distress with all my employees and friends is incredible. with the ohlendorf's we have three oldsmobiles being restored now for the division's collection...hope that they remain intact. merry christmas!<P>

[Guest]

Steve ~ I don't know how to express my feelings for what is happening to you. "I'm sorry" seems so inadequate.~ Howard

[novaman]

I too am sorry to hear about your suitation. Is GM offering the Olds only dealerships anything like another line of cars. I know that in some areas probably most it would mean two dealership with the same line. Or am I just off my rocker for tinking they would do anything to help the Olds only dealerships?<P>Take care as you manuver (where's the spellcheck?) this fork in the road of life. You'll make it through.

[Guest]

It seems to me that being a single make dealership indicates the ultimate in brand loyalty. And what will GM do to repay you for all your years of loyalty? Screw you, what else! hvs

[Steve Moskowitz]

well guys, we are not sure yet if there is a heart at general motors. only time will tell. the basic financial package we all are recieving next week will be ok for most of the 2000 "small dealers" but the other 800 will be another story. most dealers will not be able to get another franchise to replace olds due to state laws, franchise agreement etc. those dealers who have just spent millions of facilities, have tax consequences and other special circumstances will now have to deal with gm one on one. there actually are some very good people that have the responsibility of caring out this horrible task but no one knows if the folks in the ivory tower will allow them to do the right thing. happy holidays anyway!

[novaman]

Hopefully we'll find out that the tinman does have a heart after all. Hope they come through with something for you and the other Olds only dealers.<P>gotta go, as i'm off to see the wizard myself (heels click and a cloud of smoke)