Hand Cranking Procedure

[John N. Packard]

I'm rebuilding the motor starter on my recently acquired 1928 Packard. But it comes with a hand crank! The owners manual does not give a procedure for hand cranking the engine. Can anyone suggest a sure fire method to start the motor by hand cranking? Thank you very much.<BR>jnp

[D Binger]

John,<P>Hand cranking a 28 Packard - - - Hm m m m m m m m, I would take the Charles Atlas body building course first. <P>Hand cranking a big Packard engine would not be an easy task. I would think that the crank came with the car more for setting the timming than starting the engine.<P>Dan

[Mark Huston]

John, <BR>I had a dead battery in my 29 Studebaker years ago, the car had a strait 8 engine. I have hand cranked brass cars and thought I could do the same with the 29 Stude. Wrong, the car has to much compression. Could not turn it fast enough to get anything out of it, other than a lot of exercise. With a new battery it started on the first spin. The crank is there for setting the timing, not starting the engine.

[Tom Deering]

John,<P> My Dad used to start his '37 Dodge with great regularity using his foot. After pumping the accelerator, setting the hand throttle and hand choke; he would step down on the crank balancing himself with his right hand on the driver side head light. It seldom took more than three "kicks" for it to start. Of course Dad was a pretty big boy, ~250#.<P> Tom

[Guest]

John -<BR>Even on my '23 DB you would have to be super strong and lucky to start it with the hand crank. The crank is provided for engine timing. <BR> <P>Deering -<BR>I think I would have given money to see your Dad's act! Did the car ever backfire and toss him through the wall? <P>FYI all -<BR>The most recent issue of Skinned Knuckles has an excellent article on hand starting - history, techniques, debunking myths, etc.<BR>

[Guest]

Tom ~ Pinky Randall has an early Chevrolet with only crank start and the crank is permanently attached. He always used what he called his "kick starter" to start the car just as your father did. Unfortunately, on the 2nd day of a Reliability Tour he jumped on the crank and it snapped off, housing and all. The rest of us had to "push start" him for the remainder of the tour. We threatened to quit when he parked for lunch one day heading uphill on loose gravel. <P>I have a '24 Buick 6 which I have crank started on occasion just to see if I could do it. It ain't easy, but it can be done.<BR>~ hvs

[Tom Deering]

O.K. Fellas. You really don't want me to get started by spinning yarns about may Dad and his '37 Dodge. I'll give you a little background information and you can let your imagination take over from there. "Big Joe" my Dad, bought the Dodge new and didn't retire it until 1949. It spent it's entire life in Detroit (salt etc) except for one trip to Los Angeles in 1947, and was used like a contractors truck from '42 thru '48. In 1943, rust had really started to take its toll. I remember the year clearly because I remember riding to church to make my First Communion in this white suit (with Knickers) straddling a 10 gallon oil can sitting on bricks on the front passenger floor.<BR>This 10 gallon oil can served as our gas tank to the day that car was junked because of rust damage to the real gas tank. Apparently rust had done a number on the battery carrier that was under the floor beneath the drivers seat. I think this was the main reason for some of the foot cranking. You just didn't run down to Western Auto Store and declare: "I want a new battery"!<P> Anyway, for whatever reason, foot cranking was a regular occurance from that time forward and some times he would have to do it for months on a daily basis. The good news was; that car had a "C" gas rationing sticker.<P> I'll bet by now, some of you folks under 50 are wondering; "what's that ol phart babbling about". So I'm gone. Tom

[John N. Packard]

Well, I thought I would get a discourse on setting the spark, choke, throttle, etc! This is a Packard Six motor. The car was imported back to the United States from Guatemala in the 70s. The starter has a broken commutator housing and there are two cranks, one broken and one in reasonable shape. This led me to believe that hand cranking might be possible. If I put a little bit of gas in each priming cup, full choke, retard the spark, and partial throttle; might one of the cylinders fire? I don't think at 160# the jump start trick will work for me! Interesting sidelight. A Packard hand crank of this vintage just sold on eBay for $100! Maybe I should put the broken one up for bid? <BR>jnp

[Guest]

John ~ There's a lot of people paying outrageous prices for "stuff" [read junk] on e-bay. A fool and his money are soon parted Or maybe I just have an overinflated opinion of what money should be worth. That goes with being an old phart.<P>Tom ~ I'll bet my medicare card has more wrinkles in it than yours. <P>hvs

[novaman]

Tom, I'm wondering how many younger folks are reading this going "what is a "c" gas ration sticker? Not eveyone here has been through a world war as of yet. I'm presuming that the "c" was for commerical. I do know what the stickers were about, just not the indivdual codes.

[Guest]

Not real familiar with your car, but I have hand cranked Locomobiles with HUGE engines. Everything has to be adjusted correctly and it is much harder if cold but it is possible.

[Guest]

Just to let you know I'm wondering what a "C" ration sticker means. But then I am a 25 year old with a '40 Merc sedan flathead V8 which turns over but no spark. Don't worry guys it is in the garage. <P>Brad

[Guest]

Hand Cranking (and starting) is not about strength it is about technique. I have hand cranked my 1930 Pontiac many times. Ign off, choke out full (for cold start) pull engine over compression three or four times, push choke 2/3 in turn ign on hook fingers and thumb under crank ease up on compression to 10:00 oclock position and snap over the top. Starts every time. Hot start just eliminate the choke and the pre pulls. Starts every time. A friend has a t head Buick and seven or eight big big men tried to crank it and no go I started it on the third pullover. Of course the timing has to be right and the mixture. I think everyone with a crank should practice hand cranking if for no other reason than to be able to brag. About 6.2 to 1 compressio is the most I can pull over and start. 4.5 or 5 to 1 is a snap.<BR>Reid

[Guest]

I was hoping that someone a little older would be able to come on here with an authoritative answer to the ration sticker question. Having been born in 1933, I was only 8-12 years old during WWII and so have only casual memory of what stickers stood for what. This is what I remember.<P>A - 3 gallons a week [as I remember it]<BR>B - a bit more gas, but I don't know how <BR>much.<BR>C - Still more than B<BR>T - Truck, commercial. I have no idea how much you got, but I don't think it was unlimited. Was there an unlimited category for essential industry trucks?<P>I believe the B & C were issued to doctors and essential workers based on need as determined by the ration board. Being a city kid I know nothing about farmers and their vehicles and equipment.<P>I do remember three specific stickers in my family.<P>A - It didn't take my mother's '41 Cadillac very far.<BR>C - My father had this as manager of an essential business.<BR>T - The business' '37 dodge truck had one of these. So did a '41 Buick limo that my father picked up during the war and converted into a delivery vehicle by removing everything behind the front seat.<P>I have an 81 year old friend here in town who worked in a gas station during the war to put himself through medical school. I'll see what he remembers.<P>It is becoming harder and harder to get first hand information from peoiple who were adults during WWII. Just look at the age of our veterans. God bless them all. ~ hvs

[Guest spu]

There is an article about "hand cranking" in the latest Skinned Knuckles.<P>I use to hand crank my 1925 Studebaker Big 6 Bus strictly for bragging rights ... I put 2 drops of gasoline in each priming cup, put the crank at 9 o'clock and pulled up. Started first time - every time. Now I am lazy and use the electric starter.<p>[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: spu ]

[ThomasBorchers]

Hi John.<BR>Very important is the thing with the ignition setting if you try to start the motor with the hand crank. I think you can set the spark at the steering wheel? Actually it should be near to "full retard position" if you start with hand crank. Otherwise the spark may come to early and pushes the crank back. I had this at at my 1912 Cadillac as I had to start it with the hand crank as I had problems with the starter. A broken arm, hand or finger could be the result.<BR>Actually you did all correct. Do you have a spark at the plugs? Have you checked this? <P>Tom<p>[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: ThomasBorchers ]

[critterpainter]

Make sure the spark is Fully retarded, throttle about 1/3, and choke it. (On my Ford A my wife handles the choke for me)<BR> Do NOT hook your thumb over the top of the crank unless you like PAIN it it kicks.<BR> I own a Cat 22 tractor that has no electric starter....and its a bit stubbern... I have to SPIN it to start it...and I won't let any one else try to adjust the magneto. A friend offered to advance the timing for more power....I said no thanks I don't have that much health ins<BR> Bill

[John N. Packard]

Thomas,<BR> I haven't actually tried to start the car with the crank. I have turned it over a couple of times just to get the "feel" of the crank engagement. It seems a little sloppy to me. In the meantime, I have about given up on getting a replacement commutator housing for the starter. Have had two offers of a replacement starter; but I would prefer to repair the one I have. So I used the jury rigged repair of a plate to hold the broken housing to the starter. I've got it working; but it looks horrible! A week or so ago I had the motor running for about an hour and drove the car up the street to my neighbors. It was right after that the starter failed. Found a short in the field coil that I repaired. It is an Owen Dyneto unit and apparently they are rare and replacement parts are nearly impossible to locate. Once I get the car tuned up I'll try the hand crank. I have rebuilt the vacuum tank and the carburetor. I guess the distributor, points, plugs and timing will be next.<P>jnp

[Guest]

What a bunch of wimps! All of these guys saying the hand crank is for setting the timing! I had a 1937 McCormick-Deering T-20 bulldozer- hand crank only. I have a White touring- hand crank only. I have an 80 cubic inch Harley Davidson- kick start. They used to crank 800 cubic inch fire trucks to start them. Come on you guys! Toughen up!! Just for setting the timing! Give me a break

[Ron Green]

Hand cranking isn't a problem for Hulk Hogan, the Bionic Man or the Incrediable Hulk however for a older gentlemen that dosen't weigh 300 plus pounds and may of have had some health problems it is. <P>Register if you want to spout off!

[Guest]

Bravo Ron! We seem to be getting a lot of the unregistered lunatic fringe on here lately. ~ hvs

[Guest]

Ron G., I couldn't agree more. I'm not sure what this fellow means by " White Touring", but I have a 1913 White with the small 30-hp engine, and while it's not bad to crank, it seems to me that with each passing year it gets a little bit harder! While I also doubt that Packard supplied a hand crank to help with tune-ups, I have seen a few vehicles that came with a crank, that I can't believe they ever expected anyone to crank it! This looks like a good forum, I hope you are able to keep the wingnuts from becoming a problem. - F. Bell

[Guest]

F.B. -<BR>Welcome aboard and enjoy! We have special tools on the DF that keep all the wingnuts properly adjusted and firmly in place. <P>With most cars in the mid/late 20s, a full 10 years after the intro of electric starting, it certainly could be possible to crank start them, but it wasn't an easy task. For example, on my car the crank hole cover is a cast/threaded cap with an oil seal gasket that keeps the crank case oil from being thrown out the engine front. After hand starting you would have to move PDQ to keep the oily mess in check. The only advantage to hand cranking this car is to prove you can do it just once!

[RoadsterRich]

In the vein of hand cranking, just how hard is hard when it comes to cranking? With the plugs out how much effort should be required to turn the engine over? How about with the plugs in? Also where would one find a crank that will work with a 1930 Chrysler 77?<P>Hope I am not too far off topic. Being new to all this I have many questions, I try to refrain from asking them all at once, working on pacing them out...<P>Thanks,<P>Rich<BR><A HREF=http://www.1930Chrysler77.com>http://www.1930Chrysler77.com</A><BR>Member AACA, WPCC

[Guest]

My experience is that it is harder to crank my 15 T than to crank either a 17 Locomobile or an 800 CID American LaFrance. On the small engines one has to snatch in order to crank; with the large engines it only takes a steady pull. Just a guess-but I don't believe the steady pull amounts to more than 40 lbs.

[Guest]

I've had a few Farmall A tractors. They have overhead valve four cylinder engines of around 200 (poor memory, sorry if I'm way off)cubic inches, and maybe 6 and a half to one compression ratio. They start very easily with a little throttle, some (nearly full)choke. Put the crank in and get it to about 6 or 7 o'clock; lift it smartly(not frantically) to about eleven o'clock and it should have started. If you've not paid attention and flooded it, push choke all the in (off) and open the throttle, shut off ignition. Spin the engine with the crank to air the plugs. Should start then in the conventional manner. Not a big mysterious deal, just takes some fooling around with.

[Chris Bamford]

I used to hand crank my 50 HP KisselKar (373 in3, four cylinders), but my back complained and I ended up fitting a starter, which was a big improvement.<P>However, our local historical park has a 1913 American LaFrance fire engine (four cylinders, 570 in3) without a starter, and we manually crank it with ease. Notice I didn't say "hand" crank it... <P>We engage the crank handle at about the 1:30 position (heading downward), set the controls at slight throttle with half choke and fully retard the spark. Steady oneself with the radiator cap and a front fender, and emphatically apply full body weight to the crank with the right foot.<P>Rarely does it take more than twice to bring the beast to life, and it is very satisfying both to us and the park visitors to hear those 9.3 litres barking out of the 4" straight pipe!

[Guest]

My father hand-cranked his 1929 Packard Super 8 numerous times back in the 1960s. But he was a big man. And he used the crank after the engine was warmed up. He then pulled the starter out to see the timing mark on the flywheel, and hand-cranked the engine to use a timing light on the mark. He also entered the Packard in cranking contests on car tours. The car started with one pull every time. If cold, it would have been tough, as our '29 did not have priming cups.

[Guest]

A 1920's manual that I have (Dyke's possibly, can't find it...) says to always crank the car with the starting handle in the "down" position... Otherwise, a backfire could break your wrist-if you are in the process of forcing the crank from the 12 to the 6 position... (Makes sense.) They also stated that if the motor doesn't start by the 5th try, then check for no spark, or no fuel problems... Hope this helps. -Tony

[Steve Moskowitz]

I have seen small displacement brass cars that were tough to crank and large 700 cu. in. engines that started with one pull. A lot will depend on how "tight" the engine is. Although I do not do it on my car which does not have as electric starter, priming seems to really help. Last summer after many years of cranking cars I found a new way for me to get injured...I braced my foot for the pull too far in towards the car and had it kick back on me. My leg got a "bump" the size of an egg and my ego was bruised even more. It hurt like hell too! It seems in this hobby that when you get a little too cocky something always brings you back down to earth. Forgot to retard the spark!