63 window crank questions

[petelempert]

I'm putting the interior back in my 63. I bought it with all the interior parts in box in the trunk so it's sort of a puzzle. I'm hanging new door panels and have a few questions about the way the window cranks install:

1. Are the main doorcranks and rear cranks the same size while the vent window crank is the only small one? I didn't have a complete set to start with. I ordered 3 sets/6 total (two large and one small). Just checking because the rear is sort of a small space above the armrest and it made me wonder if in fact the rears might be the same as the vent windows. I'm hoping I'm right in thinking the rears and the doors are the same.

2. Do all the window cranks (vent window, door and rear) utilize a spring to keep the handle from chafing in the vinyl? The rear panels are really a tight fit when I test fit the plastic washer, the spring and the handle. Without the spring, its easy, with the spring, it's a bear.

3. Do the springs install with the tapered end facing out (towards the interior) or inwards butting against the door panel?

4. When installing the entire setup (crank handle, spring and plastic washer-not worried about the clip) is the order of install: washer-spring-crank handle OR spring-washer-crank handle? I'm thinking the washer must butt against the handle but that means the spring butts against the vinyl.

I'm thinking somebody is going to scold me and say I need a body manual. Probably right because the chassis manual doesn't cover this unless I missed something. Anyway, if anybody has some history with the cranks, let me know. Thx PRL

[RivNut]

Sorry, Pete, can't help you here. All of my cars have power windows. But here's a link to a car that has roll up windows and at least one good picture that shows the vent window crank and a rear window crank.

Look at the picture in the second row, last column on the right.

http://adamcomotorsports.com/1963-buick-riviera/

I can't remember for sure, but I think the order for the assembly is plastic washer against the upholstery with the cupped side away from the door panel so you can get a clip tool on the clip, then the spring, then the handle. The reason I'm going with this orientation is that it seems like this would be the only way to get a clip removal tool all the way to the clip without any obstructions. Small end of the spring against the handle, large end against the cupped plastic washer, cup in the washer inside the large end of the spring to keep the spring centered. Be sure that when you put the handles back on, you have all the windows up so that you can orient all the handles to the same position. I think they all point toward the front of the car when the window is up.

Ed

Edited December 7, 2014 by RivNut (see edit history)

[petelempert]

Ed-That helps a lot. BTW, that yellow car looks good enough to eat. To my eye, the vent crank is much stubbier than the other two which look equal length in the picture.That's good because that's what I ordered. I'm gonna assemble them the way you described, it seems the only logical way. Ed, thanks as always for your input. You're the bomb! PRL

[RivNut]

Pete,

The more you think about it the more logical things get. The vent window is small and you don't have to lift it to close it. Therefore, it won't take much leverage to move it so a shorter handle will work. On the other hand the rear window is larger and you have to lift it. That will take more leverage to move it so a longer handle would make sense for it as well.

Ed

[riviadrian]

Pete,

My 63 has crank windows and unrestored interior. Sounds like I might have the picture of your jigsaw puzzle. I'd be happy to bring it your way, or you are welcome to stop by and take a look at it here in Plano. 214-802-3192

-Adrian-

[Seafoam65]

Sorry, Pete, can't help you here. All of my cars have power windows. But here's a link to a car that has roll up windows and at least one good picture that shows the vent window crank and a rear window crank.

Look at the picture in the second row, last column on the right.

http://adamcomotorsports.com/1963-buick-riviera/

I can't remember for sure, but I think the order for the assembly is plastic washer against the upholstery with the cupped side away from the door panel so you can get a clip tool on the clip, then the spring, then the handle. The reason I'm going with this orientation is that it seems like this would be the only way to get a clip removal tool all the way to the clip without any obstructions. Small end of the spring against the handle, large end against the cupped plastic washer, cup in the washer inside the large end of the spring to keep the spring centered. Be sure that when you put the handles back on, you have all the windows up so that you can orient all the handles to the same position. I think they all point toward the front of the car when the window is up.

Ed

The spring goes on before the door panel is installed, with the large end toward the door panel.The purpose of the spring

is to push the door panel out to meet the handle when it is installed so there is no gap behind the handle. After the door panel is installed, the plastic washer goes on, then the handle. Personally, I've never liked the springs being on there as it makes it a PITA to remove the handles to work on the door, so on my restorations I always leave them off as well as the washers, because to me the washers look cheesy. With no springs and no plastic washers the door panel looks nice and the handles are easy to remove, but if you want it to be factory, do it the way I said at the beginning.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

I have not consulted the Fisher Body manual, which seems like a logical thing to do, but I have never once found the spring on a first gen Riv. I have not had as many manual window cars as power window but I do have a couple very low mileage, original cars I can inspect.

Winston, can the spring be seen without disassembling the door panel?

Also, regarding your description of the purpose of the spring, did you find that purpose in GM literature?

When I have seen the springs loose at swap meets or on Ebay I assumed it was to take up the lash in the gear mechanism and give the handle a more refined "feel"....but again, I have never encountered them while working on a first gen Riv??

Tom Mooney

[1965rivgs]

Consulted the `65 Fisher Body manual which has very detailed diagrams and text, no spring in the diagrams or mention of the spring in the text. The plastic washer is there, but no spring.

Tom Mooney

[abandg]

Tom. I have never found a spring in the door cranks either. Gene.

[Seafoam65]

I have not consulted the Fisher Body manual, which seems like a logical thing to do, but I have never once found the spring on a first gen Riv. I have not had as many manual window cars as power window but I do have a couple very low mileage, original cars I can inspect.

Winston, can the spring be seen without disassembling the door panel?

Also, regarding your description of the purpose of the spring, did you find that purpose in GM literature?

When I have seen the springs loose at swap meets or on Ebay I assumed it was to take up the lash in the gear mechanism and give the handle a more refined "feel"....but again, I have never encountered them while working on a first gen Riv??

Tom Mooney

Yes, the spring also takes up the in and out free play on the handle, as well as makes the door panel tight against the

back of the handle. I only run into the springs on very low mileage totally unmolested cars, as everybody always throws them away

the first time they take the panel off, myself included. My 69 GTO had them from the factory, and I tossed them in 1972. I can't

tell you if Buick used them on the Riviera or not.....Since Pete had them in the boxes of parts for the interior of his car, I can't imagine

why they would be there if they weren't originally on the car. No, you can't tell if they are there till you remove the door panel. That

being said, if I was Pete I would throw the springs away, as the tension on them makes the door handle removal much more difficult

and the door panel looks fine without them. I also dislike the washers as to me they make the handle look bad. Being an unmolested

car my Riviera still has the washers behind the handles, but they look cheesy to me and I may remove them in the near future.

[petelempert]

The mystery deepens. Thanks to all of you for your input. In the crazy box of stuff I found in my trunk there were only two springs: One which looked to me like the correct crank spring and was in fact zip tied to the crank handle. The other is larger and not tapered. It might be a bed spring for all I know and the previous owner was sort of flaky. I found quite a few non-Buick, not even automotive parts in the boxes in the trunk. Mostly porn, roach clips, razor blades and even some home plumbing parts. Go figure. Anyway, I'm thinking I'm going to use the springs only on the main doors. The rear quarter panels I just installed are really tight and I think the spring would make them too tight. I agree that the washers look a little cheesy but I'm worried that over time, the door handle will score the vinyl. Seafoam, if it looks really crappy, I can always pull them off. Thanks and I'll post when I've got things buttoned up. PRL

PS-Seafoam and Riviadrian-Let's plan to get together, maybe over the holidays. I can host or we can meet someplace. Let me know.

[Seafoam65]

PS-Seafoam and Riviadrian-Let's plan to get together, maybe over the holidays. I can host or we can meet someplace. Let me know.

Pete....my wife Cindy and I go to the car guy gathering at La Madeleine restaurant on Saturday mornings at El Dorado

Parkway and Hiway 75 in McKinney most every Saturday if it isn't raining. It usually starts up around 8:00 a.m. and ends around

ten a.m. Let's get together for breakfast there some Saturday. I'll be driving one of my other collector cars as I don't have the rear

bumper on the Riviera right now.

[petelempert]

Seafoam-I'll do it. I'll let you know when I'm coming up. Probably in a few weeks. Meanwhile, good luck with your bumper. PRL

[RivNut]

The mystery deepens. ..... PRL.

No mystery. Tom and Gene have spoken. Take it to the bank.

[TexasJohn55]

I will chime in on the springs. They do go behind the door panel and are to keep the panel snug to the window crank handle. My 69 Pontiac has them.