the Buick Fireball V-6

[Guest aukc]

recently uncovered this booklet from 1962, link to contents - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.633176623373922.1073741858.136615233030066&type=1&l=80ecee28fe

In 1991 the 30 millionth Pontiac, like every FWD Bonneville except the GXP, rolled off the assembly line powered by a Buick 231 cubic inch V-6. That engine was based on an engine design already 30 years old at that time; it is now over 50 years ago since Buick introduced their V-6.

I am not aware this booklet was ever reprinted, so I believe this is an original from the batch of booklets that was intended mainly for distribution at the 1962 SAE Congress and Exposition at the presentation by Joseph Turlay and Clifford Studaker on the new Buick Fireball V-6, which was held in January 1962 at the Cobo Hall in Detroit.

Joseph Turlay headed antisubmarine devices research in Scotland during WWII, having refused to work on the Manhattan Project.

At Buick as chief of engine design, he led the development of the Buick V-8 “nailhead” introduced for 1953 and later was responsible for preparing the advanced 215 cu in aluminum V-8 for production. General Motors had started design work on an aluminum V-8 and in 1958 the project was turned over to Buick for final design and production engineering.

Realizing how expensive the aluminum V-8 was to produce, Joseph developed the idea of a 90 degree cast-iron V-6 based on the 215 aluminum V-8 and worked it out on paper before getting corporate approval. His proposal to Buick General Manager Edward D Rollert was accepted and in 1960 the V-6 development program officially started. The result was a 196 cu in engine that generated 135 hp using the rating system of that time. Less than 2 years after the development program began, the engine was introduced in model year 1962 in the Buick Special, which was selected by Motor Trend Magazine as Car of the Year.

By 1964 the 215 aluminum V-8 was discontinued by GM. It had been introduced in model year 1961 and “only” 750,000 had been sold over the next 3 model years. Britain’s Rover Corporation approached GM about taking over the engine and eventually a deal was made and GM sold all rights to the engine (and 39 assembled engines) to Rover. Rover was also able to negotiate that Joseph would retire from Buick and come to England to help them get the aluminum V-8 engine into production.

Unfortunately Joseph did not live to see the Buick V-6 named one of the top 10 best engines in the world, as it was so recognized in 1995 (and again in 1996 and 1997) by Wards Autoworld. Joseph Turlay had past away in 1985 at age 80.

Clifford “Cliff” Studaker flew B-17’s in WWII and was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross.

One of his first assignments at Buick, while still a student engineer, was working with Joseph on the design of the Buick nailhead. He stayed at Buick for many years after the introduction of the V-6. He was still at Buick in 1973 when the oil crisis made fuel economy a hot topic and GM remembered the engine they no longer owned, after having sold it to Kaiser and having moved all the tooling to Toledo Ohio so Kaiser could build engines for Jeeps in the mid-1960’s. He was there when Buick engineers went to a local junk yard to find an original V-6, refurbish it, install it in a then current Buick Apollo and test it.

By this time American Motors owned the tooling but they were no longer producing the V-6 engine. It was Cliff that traveled with GM president Ed Cole in that V-6 equiped Apollo to the initial meeting with American Motors to negotiate American Motors building these V-6’s and selling completed engines to GM. The negotiations evolved from there and in April 1974 Buick repurchased the tooling and installed it back in Flint North Factory 36 where it belonged. The tooling was installed in the original mounts which were found by chipping away the concrete that had been poured over them after the tooling had been removed 7 years earlier. Production began in August 1974. Cliff worked on the split-pin crank that resulted in even firing intervals which was delivered in 1977.

Clifford Studaker retired from Buick in 1980.

[JohnD1956]

Thanks for posting this bit of history! Lots of stuff I did not know.

[Guest aukc]

thanks, I researched this as best I could, I bet there's some folks here who could add some more details and correct any of the details I might have got wrong, so corrections and additions are most welcome.

[Guest wildcat465]

thanks, I researched this as best I could, I bet there's some folks here who could add some more details and correct any of the details I might have got wrong, so corrections and additions are most welcome.

Kinda like a "Veesixipedia"?

Wikisix?

I guess I will just roll with what you put there, a lot of cool info I never knew before. Thanks for posting here.

Edited July 26, 2013 by wildcat465
Wanted to make up another word. (see edit history)

[Guest aukc]

Kinda like a "Veesixipedia"?

Wikisix?

yes, that's the "wicket"

[jscheib]

Mike, Interesting. You should probably contact the Buick Heritage Alliance. I am not sure they have a copy of that document, but you can check on their web site if they have it and it has been scanned for reference. If they do not have a copy, I am sure they would appreciate a complete photocopy for their reference, or perhaps a donation of an original, if you would elect to do so. I am not sure but others may know how rare this document is. Especially interesting to me now that I am a new owner of a car with a 3.8 liter - '90 Reatta. I would love to have a copy of the full document for historical reference. John

[dship]

I've owned five Buicks with the 3800 231ci V6....four Riviera's (two supercharged and two naturally aspirated) and one Reatta. All I can say is that you cannot kill this engine! Very low maintenance required and very reliable.

[Thriller]

I have three Buick automobiles with a V6 - 1962, 1988, and 2002. This was a very interesting read. Thanks for posting.

[Centurion]

Mike, thank you so much for posting this information.

As my wife and I took steps to update our fleet, my requirement was that the newer car be powered by the great 3800 Buick V6. We are currently purchasing a 2005 LeSabre sedan (26,000 miles) from the estate of an elderly relative who passed away earlier this year.

This leaves us with three 3800-powered LeSabres in the "daily driver" fleet. My 18-year old twins have now been "assigned" the '89 LeSabre, still rolling faithfully along with 240,000 miles.

[Guest aukc]

Mike, Interesting. You should probably contact the Buick Heritage Alliance. ...

I was not aware of the BHA - Buick Heritage Alliance | Dedicated to the preservation of all things Buick

I will certainly contact them and let them know what I've got, thanks, Mike

[Guest aukc]

I've owned five Buicks with the 3800 231ci V6....four Riviera's (two supercharged and two naturally aspirated) and one Reatta. All I can say is that you cannot kill this engine! Very low maintenance required and very reliable.

close to 120,000 miles on mine so far, hasn't needed anything "internal", just external stuff like water pump, alternator, ac compressor, rebuilt supercharger, valve cover, intake and pan gaskets, rear main seal (fortunately done under warrenty), a few sensors, etc.

[Rooster]

That Buick 3800 engine ( EFI ) was used in our local GM Holden model Commodore 1998 - 2005. Some taxi cabs were reputed to get 500,000 - 600,000 + Kms on those engines

( approx - 350,000 miles with regular oil changes and running on LPG ) The engine evolved over the years to be still used up until a couple of years ago.

[NTX5467]

For ADDITIONAL reading . . . In the Buick section of www.wildaboutcarsonline.com, back in the road test area, I think, there's an article from HOT ROD magazine of 1961, I think. It's a great article on the Buick V-6. Initially, I thought it a little unusual for HOT ROD to be doing that article, when sister-publicatioin MOTOR TREND might have been more appropriate. BUT back then, the Buick Nailhead still had a great reputation in drag racing, so that's probably why. In any event, some of what's mentioned in that article is better illustrated in the SAE book presented. Some neat pictures in the magazine article, too. Check it out!

Thanks for that link!! Great reading and information about a little-known engine (especially as big V-8s were "the thing" when it came out) that came to be on of the industries great engines (after some additional refinements and upgrading over the years).

Similar power as the 215 V-8 with less complexity to build and produce (i.e., production cost). The firing order and the motor mounts were the keys to getting it into production, the first time, from what that magazine article stated . . . BOTH of which are detailed in the SAE book.

Take care,

NTX5467

Edited July 27, 2013 by NTX5467 (see edit history)