1955 Nailhed 264 timing chain

[Guest Roadster911]

Hello, I'm rebuilding my motor and new timing chain that came with the car has so much slack it's not even funny. {youtube video on the subject by another member here

mine's worse . Talked to 'oldtank' Willie and he suggested NOS TRW chain part No. TC488 {direct application} or 491 {proven application by Willie}. Anyone out there has one by any chance OR good original? Thank you as always. Roman Edited May 17, 2013 by Roadster911 (see edit history)

[Guest Roadster911]

Just spoke to Bob's and was told that 'the reproduction chains are built a lot looser then the originals' - end of story{WTF}. What do I do if I can't find good original...to me it's so loose it's not gonna work for long...

[avgwarhawk]

It would work but I would think timing would be erratic. Once I had a loose chain(Buick 455). I only knew it was loose(stretched) when I checked the timing with a timing light. Every time the timing light would flash the balancer appeared to be spinning in the opposite direction. So instead of a stable mark and balancer rotating the same direction it looked like it was rocking back and forth.

Is your old chain any worse than the new chain? Is it loose/stretched?

Try Kanter

1955 Buick Timing Chains - Kanter Auto Parts for Restoring Classic Antique Cars

Or Hagens

http://hagensautoparts.com/buick/21-engine/5452/

Edited May 13, 2013 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[buick5563]

From other posts and my own personal experience:

Kanter's are loose.

So are Bob's, Terrill Machine's and I assume CARS.

[avgwarhawk]

Brings me back to the question, is the old chain better than what is offered as new?

Edited May 13, 2013 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

How about Classic Buick?

Buick matched timing chain sprocket sets, Buick V8 Engine Parts, ClassicBuicks.com, classic buick parts, old buick parts, antique buick parts, ignition kits, wiper kits, rubber kits, Buick, Riviera, Lesabre, Skylark, Wildcat, Roadmaster, Special, GS

[avgwarhawk]

I had read this in Mudbone's thread month ago. I remember he has issues with his chain. Might be your best option:

http://forums.aaca.org/f163/55-century-66r-project-292364-10.html#post1071254

Try the new gears with the old chain.

[avgwarhawk]

I had read this in Mudbone's thread months ago. I remember he has issues with his chain. Might be your best option:

http://forums.aaca.org/f163/55-century-66r-project-292364-10.html#post1071254

Try the new gears with the old chain.

[old-tank]

SEALED POWER Part # 222491

Add this to your search. Currently made ones may be the same old loose junk, but if you find one made when the cars were contemporary, you will find a better one.

Willie

[Guest btate]

I was told to buy the set. the sprockets and chain together and I did from Egge

[avgwarhawk]

I was told to buy the set. the sprockets and chain together and I did from Egge[/quote

Under normal circumstance yes, purchase both as a set. This is not normal circumstances. Mudbones answer was to reuse what he had. It worked for him. It might be the only answer for this 264 as well.

[Guest Roadster911]

Yeah, if only I had the old chain. It was 'tossed' by my flaky 'Buick gal' from Riverside along with few other essential items before I regained possession of my car {long story - touched on it in my older posts}. When I got the car back, I was given this new chain of no known origin and it's looser than the one in Mudbone's video. Called Eggy this morning, will try that one and give feedback. Thx Willie for other reference on Sealed Power part No. Will hunt for that one as well.

[Guest Roadster911]

Update - replacement chain from Egge arrived yesterday, tried it on today and it's identical to the other one, took a picture. Came in same box as Mudbone's - C.R.Gear under part No. TC 491 even though their website lists TC488 only. I'm gonna follow up on Willies advice and order Sealed Power No: 222491 from Summit. Keep posted how it goes. Roman

[bhclark]

I believe the best advice received so far was to order a matching SET of timing chain and gear. At this point, just the gear from Egge might be the ticket.

This seems to be the fix according to what I've read.

[Guest Roadster911]

Not the case based on what I saw in Mudbone's video {new everything and still loose}.. that's the issue :eek: It was my first choice but it seems the reproduction chains are the weak link here.

[buick5563]

Damn, that is even looser than the one I got from Terrill Machine!!!

[avgwarhawk]

Update - replacement chain from Egge arrived yesterday, tried it on today and it's identical to the other one, took a picture. Came in same box as Mudbone's - C.R.Gear under part No. TC 491 even though their website lists TC488 only. I'm gonna follow up on Willies advice and order Sealed Power No: 222491 from Summit. Keep posted how it goes. Roman

Willie advised could be a hit or miss as well concerning Sealed power. Here is a thought. Keep what you have ordered already. Find the Sealed Power and order. Perhaps all the sets you have can make up a good gear/chain combo. Mix and match as it where.

[Guest Roadster911]

Willie advised could be a hit or miss as well concerning Sealed power. Here is a thought. Keep what you have ordered already. Find the Sealed Power and order. Perhaps all the sets you have can make up a good gear/chain combo. Mix and match as it where.

Looks like the only option, yes. Willie reference to Sealed Power is regarding an original chain.... whatever is made today by whomever under 'this' or 'that' name might very well be the same chain I already got twice - very frustrating. Seems as though it's common knowledge, at least on this forum, that the reproduction chain is too loose. Bob's Automobilia is aware of it yet it hasn't been addressed by the manufacturer. Problem might be that distributors {like Bob's} don't know who that is and can't give feedback {Bob told me that}.

[old-tank]

I believe the best advice received so far was to order a matching SET of timing chain and gear. At this point, just the gear from Egge might be the ticket.

This seems to be the fix according to what I've read.

Brian, where did you read that?

[avgwarhawk]

Looks like the only option, yes. Willie reference to Sealed Power is regarding an original chain.... whatever is made today by whomever under 'this' or 'that' name might very well be the same chain I already got twice - very frustrating. Seems as though it's common knowledge, at least on this forum, that the reproduction chain is too loose. Bob's Automobilia is aware of it yet it hasn't been addressed by the manufacturer. Problem might be that distributors {like Bob's} don't know who that is and can't give feedback {Bob told me that}.

I would suspect the demand is so low the manufacture is not bothering or what they have machined already for another similar application is "close enough". I'm not sure.

[avgwarhawk]

Maybe this guys can help you:

Cam Shafts, Timing Chains |

https://www.vitalvintagecoalition.com/product/buick-timing-chain-tc488x136/

Edited May 16, 2013 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[TexasJohn55]

I was told to buy the set. the sprockets and chain together and I did from Egge

Willie, post 10 but no mention of whether it was loose or tight, maybe some took that as implied, I made no assumption. TexasJohn

[bhclark]

Yes, maybe btate could chime in, but I thought his problem was solved finally after replacing the set. My apologies if I rear that incorrectly.

I would agree that it is highly likely that all of the suppliers are using the same chain.

[old-tank]

On my first rebuild, I was having trouble finding gears; chain no problem. I told the machinist and he looked at my old gears and said as long as there is not a wear pattern you can catch your nail on, they would be fine. The chain was so tight that it took some time to get the two gears to slide on their respective shafts. 30+ years ago....

[Guest Roadster911]

I did check the gears for wear like you just said and they're fine. Have called few people locally, no luck so far. Waiting for chain from Summit {Sealed Power}, takes few days. Have my doubts.. Trial and error

[avgwarhawk]

I hope this set will work!!! Frustrating for sure.

[Guest Roadster911]

I called the guys at nailheadbuick.com and the set for 264 is out of stock :mad:. Russ, the owner knew about the problem with chains, thought is could be actually the sprockets... I called Egge and ordered rest of the set {got the chain already} and called Bob's automobilia as well for the same. 'Desperate times call for desperate measures' kind of thing. After that, I don't know what to do. $30 item and SO MUCH frustration. {WTF}

[avgwarhawk]

Like I was thinking, perhaps you will have to piece meal together sprocket and chains from several sources.

[Guest btate]

I did have trouble getting a good chain and gears. After reading about this issue and thinking about the issue, I wonder if my engine builder just went ahead and used the last set whether it fit or not. Maybe that is a big part of my engine problem. I think the engine may have to be pulled for repair, especially the rear main is pouring the oil. Seems if a part is made wrong every dealer in the country receives stock.

[Guest Roadster911]

I did have trouble getting a good chain and gears. After reading about this issue and thinking about the issue, I wonder if my engine builder just went ahead and used the last set whether it fit or not. Maybe that is a big part of my engine problem. I think the engine may have to be pulled for repair, especially the rear main is pouring the oil. Seems if a part is made wrong every dealer in the country receives stock.

Hi Bill, I wondered about that as I follow your thread on the break-in and remember the pictures of it when we were discussing the radiator few months back. That thing looked SO nice and all there but sounds like something is definitely wrong with fresh complete rebuilt engine, I feel your pain. I don't want to damage fresh motor with worse-than-used chain, that's for sure...

[Guest Roadster911]

Well well well. Don't believe what any of the supliers tell you because IT IS THE CHAIN. Not the sprockets. Reproduction chain is about half inch too long compared to NOS chain. Only thanks to Willie "Old tank" who provided the original part numbers { TC488 or TC 491 or 222491 - or variation of those}. I was able to locate not one but two New Old Stock 491 chains { I ONLY FOUND IT AS "491 TIMING CHAIN" ON EBAY...NOTHING UNDER "TC491" or even "TC 491" so you gotta play with it} and sure enough, it's so tight there's almost no play at all, 1/8" if that. It's also very stiff and can only fit into the long blue box; does not collapse like the reproduction chain that fits into box half the size of blue one. Here are some pictures of one of the chains...the other one is in the mail but I don't need it, anyone interested let me know. Before getting the NOS chain, I ordered new sprockets from Egge just to make sure, but it WAS the chain... So, BIG THANK YOU to Willie as he truly saved my build!

[buick5563]

This thread made me remember when I was rebuilding my first 322 how difficult it was to install the chain. I basically beat the two sprockets on. This is really good info! Thanks for posting Roadster.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Willie is pretty hard to outsmart! Probably impossible. GO WILLIE.!!

Glad you found the new chain. I ended up using the original chain and gears for my 248 inline. No problems so far.

Ben

[buick5563]

Truth in advertising:

I love that you can buy this chain at KakaPart. Must be based in NJ.

 

 

C491 Precise Engine Timing Chain - Kakapart.com

www.kakapart.com › parts › precise-c491

Precise C491 Engine Timing Chain. Main Info. Precise C491. Precise C491. Cross Interchange Parts ...

Edited November 18, 2016 by buick5563 (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

Here's what I THINK I found today, after sending Old-Tank a PM and a request for the particular brand(s) of chain. He sent me a link to an eBay store for a vendor located in Humble, TX.  That link contained a picture from an auto supply chain and the part.  Only thing Old-Tank noted was to buy a chain that comes in a long, narrow box.  The loose chain in the YouTube video could probably have been wadded-up and put in a square box?  So, with that part number, I went to RockAuto for research! 

 

One of their brands listed for a '54 Buick V-8 had the same number as the picture in the link.  "C491".  I went to their website and found that the "491" number, for them, has NO reference to a Ford application.  The Ford application, in their catalog is "493".  There are definite differences in the number of links, which means no-workie-for-kaka, possibly.

 

I then went into the Sealed Power catalog and found the Ford listing as 221493, also, with the Buick listing as 221491.  Perhaps that's the issue!  A bad application x-ref that went bad?  In looking at the noted Ford applications (of which it crosses engine families from 1958-1987!), they were all -493 parts, NOT -491 parts.

 

At least, this is the theory I've got for now . . .

 

Interestingly, Cloyes does not have any Buick listings prior to model year 1957.  Everybody else shows NailHead timing chains and lower sprockets as the same from 1953-1966.

 

NTX5467