24/6/45 still stuck engine

[Guest tom pre]

been soaking pistons & rods. starter/gen. removed. water pump removed. yesterday tried reversing fly wheel no luck. clutch is not frozen to fly wheel. timing cover off. tonight i'll remove oil pan. fly wheel is locked. any ideas ?:mad:

[Brian_Heil]

With the pan coming off next, I would first back off all the 4 main caps a bit and see if that frees things up. If no change, lube the journals and torque them back up and (from below) go rod by rod looking for first, a frozen rod that won't move (slightly) on the crank pin side to side. Then if no luck, start pulling rod/piston assemblies one by one. One or more must be stuck in the bore. Watch the rod cap shims, keep track of them.

Once you find the frozen bore(s) you will know where to concentrate your efforts. With the frozen rod/pistons disconnected from the crank check to see if the crank will in fact turn.

Lube and tap lightly all the valves, no need to bend a pushrod too if you have a stuck valve if the engine has been sitting, or better yet, pull all the pushrods for now, then the rockers and pushrods are out of the frozen 'equation'.

Finally, as my father would say, 'don't horse things' go easy, don't use any 4 ft. pry bars or fence posts.

[Guest B1rdman]

buy some thrust and spray it in the cylinders then let it sit, it will free the pistons

best stuff i have seen

gene

[jbbuick22]

Tom,

Have you found anything yet?? If you take the brg caps off keep track of the shims.

JB

[Guest kaycee]

Where do you buy Thrust? I have an old parts car engine that I'd like to free up. Thanks!

kaycee

[Mark Shaw]

The product called "Thrust" that I have used is starting fluid....

The best stuff I have used to free up piston rings is 50/50 ATF & acetone.... See below:

Penetrating Oils...

Machinist's Workshop MagT recently published some information on various penetrating oils that I found very interesting.

Some of you might appreciate this. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on rusted nuts.

They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

*Penetrating oils ........... Average torque load to loosen*

No Oil used ................... 516 pounds

WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds

PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds

Liquid Wrench ...............127 pounds

Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds

ATF*-Acetone mix............53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any commercial product in this one particular test.

Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results.

Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is almost as good as "Kroil"

for about 20% of the price.

Steve from Godwin-Singer says that ATF-Acetone mix is best,

but you can also use ATF and lacquer thinner in a 50-50 mix.

*ATF=Automatic Transmission Fluid</SPAN>

[Pete Phillips]

I use the automatic transmission & acetone mix, too. Let it sit for a week. It works, unless you have a broken piston or piston ring fragment wedged against the cylinder wall.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

[Guest tom pre]

Hi Brian. pushrods & rocker are out they look in good shape. not part of the frozen equation.

[Brian_Heil]

It could also be a stuck lifter in a lifter bore. Check these as well. A stuck lifter is not common but possible. The 2:1 ratio of crank to cam gearing and then the cam lobe ramp angle typically is enough mechanical leverage to free a stuck lifter.

Any luck with the main caps and then rod caps?

[Guest tom pre]

lifter bore should easily come out right ? one did, others stuck can i gently pry them out ? next i'll drop pan and check bearings. God this is fun

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I subscribe wholeheartedly to the acetone (lacquer thinner, in a pinch) and ATF theory. I'll add, just to further general knowledge, that when working to free up something that you have better access to (a bolt, linkage, etc) ATF alternated with "brake clean" works wonders. I suppose that, like the acetone, the brake clean is so extremely thin that it carries small amounts for the ATF in with it. I know that this won't be of any help to you with your engine, but I thought I'd share it others who have taken an interest in your thread. In my experience, stuck engines have always been that way from the rings freezing (rusting) to the cylinder walls. If you think in terms of the last time the engine was running, and then turned off, it was the cylinder walls that were the driest. Journals and lifter bores likely had enough film on them to keep them from rusting. I agree, however that the old oil film dries, too, over time and can create plenty of resistance on it's own, but it doesn't usually put up the amount of resistance that you have going on. Whatever you do, don't get mad and try to tow a car and "pop" the clutch to free it up. That's what some dumb prior owner did with my Hudson 8 cylinder. Mice love to nest in dormant engines and easily enter them by way of the exhaust. They can crawl through an opening as little as a valve that is raised up off of it seat. It's there that they build their little nests and fill the cylinder with seeds, the lint stolen from the interior of the car and lots and lots of droppings. None of those things will compress enough when you do something radical (like towing) to free up the engine. In my case, the results were a broken piston and a twisted rod. I think that if a little more soaking doesn't pay off, you should resign yourself to taking the head off the engine. Once you do that, you'll be able to gently tap on the piston tops with a block of wood. little vibrations, like from tapping, don't seem like much at the time but pay off eventually.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[Brian_Heil]

You should be able to remove all the lifters as you did the one. If you have multiple lifters stuck, that could be your issue (they're ganging up on you!). After all, they are outside the engine so to speak and not internal and protected. Start soaking all the stuck lifters. Pay attention to their position and bore # and re-install in same bore in same direction.

A brake wheel cylinder hone will clean up a lifter bore, go easy, just remove the rust. You can wire wheel the lifters to clean them up. Check the roller and 'axle' of the roller. Clean everything well. Keep track of the pushrods too and what cylinder they came from.

[Guest tom pre]

Hi Brian. all pushrods out. only one of 12 lifters came out. tonight they will begin more intense soaking. thanks