New to the Dodge Brothers world

[JayG]

Hi - Just wanted to say hello. I'm a former Model A guy and just purchased a 1925 Dodge Brothers roadster. I've been researching and learning. I got it thinking that it was a road worthy vehicle but that's not entirely correct. I have spent a considerable amount of time getting the vacuum tank working. Still not convinced it's correct. Then on its' maiden drive to get a VIN verification done it died with a carb float full of gas. Thanks to a good samaritan and some epoxy we emptied the float and got it to where I needed to get. The ride home consisted of filling the vacuum tank 3 time to make the 4 mile drive home. Luckily I had the foresight to bring gas with me. I suspect carb issues as the float metering needle shows wear. Any ideas where to get a new one?

Anyway - I will be full of questions and look forward to hearing all of your thoughts and suggestions. I am attaching a pic. Hope it works.

Jay

[Guest 1930]

Great looking car

[TonyAus]

Sounds like you might have a combination of problems. The first step with the vacuum tank is to establish that you have no air leaks. The top gaskets must be perfect. Check that the float does not have leaks and that the flapper valve at the bottom of the inner tank is not sticking. Check that the valves in the lid are free and that the air vent (the bent tube which protrudes from the lid) is not blocked.

If the carburettor continues to flood, check that the epoxy has not made the float too heavy or if some fuel remains inside. Probably better to get anther float. Some wear on the needle can be tolerated but a lot will give you grief. Contact Myers for a new needle and seat. They may also be able to help with a float.

[MikeC5]

Meyers has new floats too (they did a few months ago). I also purchased a needle valve with neoprene tip from them and have had no carb problems. You might also want to see what it looks like in the gas tank. Mine had a lot of nasty 50 year old remnants of gasoline (hard black crumbly stuff) which could easily cause fuel system problems. I did have some trouble with the vacuum tank until I used some Permatex (aviation gasket sealer) on the gaskets. I installed a new fuel line and it runs like a champ now. It starts right up after sitting two weeks and I only shut off the fuel valve below the vacuum tank when parked in the garage.

[MikeC5]

Nice looking car too!

[JayG]

Thanks for the compliments. I was looking at a few touring cars and this one just happened to come up at the same time. It needs some attention but that's expected. Overall a nice car. It has a Fatman steering wheel and the manifold heater with the floor vent.

I've had the vacuum tank out and thouroughly cleaned everything inside. All is operational and the vent is not plugged. The springs are in place and seem to be functioning as they should. There is a sediment bowl at the inlet to the tank. That's clean. I haven't tried the permatex. I will do that plus I just got a new set of springs to put in. I had the tank running well before I took it out. I could actually watch it cycling in the sediment bowl. Then the carb float sank and I couldn't keep the tank working. I will keep at it. I saw the floats at Myers but I didn't see the needles. Have to look again. Are there other needles to replace inside the carb body? I thought I saw a diagram showing the internals of the card with another needle.

I'll let you know how I make out with it. It's registered and ready to go.

[Bill Harmatuk]

Nice car.

Bill H

[JayG]

I've been trying to get this thing running and still having problems. I bought a new float, carb rebuild kit and neoprene needle seat. Now I'm having float overflow issues. It seems like the needle isn't seating in the neoprene or that the neoprene seat is lower than the original brass seat. Any thoughts on this. I'm thinking of putting a copper washer under the new seat to bring it up a little. Mike you mentioned buying a neoprene tipped needle. I didn't see them in the Myers website only the seats.

Also - I rebuilt the vacuum tank and I know it's good. I think my issue is the sediment bowl that was put on it. I've discovered that the threads on the big brass bolt that attaches it to the top of the vacuum tank don't start to catch until way down. I'm afraid to tighten too much. I am going to eliminate the sediman bowl and go back to an original setup. Anyone have the large fitting that connects the fuel line in?

Edited August 19, 2012 by JayG (see edit history)

[MikeC5]

Can you post some photos of the carb float bowl and parts? I apologize for the confusion on the neoprene. It is the seat, not the needle that is neoprene (I've rebuilt other non-DB carbs that use neoprene tipped needles). As for the fittings on the vacuum tank, they are standard NPT and you can get brass fittings to fit them at any decent hardware store (I got mine at Home Depot). I'm sure the originals look a bit different but the new stuff will do the job.

[JayG]

Mike - here's a pic of the carb. The new float is the same height as the old one. The neoprene seat seems to be lower in the brass than the original seat was so that's why I'm thinking of raising it with a washer. I am picking up the right fittings for the vacuum tank to eliminate the sediment bowl. Might put an inline filter somewhere not noticeable.

[1936 D2]

Do I see that the fuel line from the vacuum tank to the carb has a vertical loop in it? I have always heard that can cause flow issues if/when bubbles collect in there from heat or whatever causing a vapor lock condition. Not sure if I am seeing it right though as I can't zoom in on the photo anymore.

[JayG]

There is a loop. If that could be an issue I can eliminate it.

[MikeC5]

I have a loop in mine and haven't had any issues. It looks like the correct carb. I put a see through in-line filter where the fuel line passes near the rear floor board. Have you disassembled the carb to verify that the metering head moves freely? This link has a nice cross section of the carb. Item M is the metering head (you need to remove the carb from the intake elbow to get an unobstructed view of it. Using a washer is worth a try. I would use a copper one to ensure it doesn't leak (copper washers are used on some modern cars at brake hose connections). Have you been able to start it with the new seat and float?

Carburetor Manuals: Stewart Carburetors

[1936 D2]

The only problems I have heard of with vertical loops is that it creates a spot where the air/fuel vapors can accumulate in a pocket. So a horizontal loop (as long as it does not get close to heat producing items like the cylinder area or an exhaust manifold) would be the way to go. The loop IS REQUIRED. It takes up motion of the vibrating engine and keeps that motion from getting transferred into the fittings on each end of the solid line where a leak could then occur. You just don't want a place in that line where the vapors can accumulate.

[JayG]

The metering head moves freely. I took the whole carb apart and cleaned it with spray carb cleaner. It was running before I rebuilt it but the float was filling up. The only problem now is that it is not shutting off the flow of gas and is leaking through the overflow. Everything is clean and operational inside. I'm going to try the washer to raise the seat. If that doesn't work I'll put the old seat back in. I did get it to run with the new float and seat but it leaks through the overflow hole.

[JayG]

I got the fittings for the vacuum tank and eliminated the sediment bowl. It's working!!!!!. The gasket under the neoprene needle seat didn't work but I think it's too thick. I may file it down a bit and see if that works better. I did put the old seat back in and the car runs with it. The needle is worn some so I have to turn it until it closes properly. Wish someone sold the needles. Anyway I feel much better. Now to get it out on the road and see if it's trustworthy.

Thanks to those that offered assistance.

[MikeC5]

I'm glad to hear you're making some progress. You might try calling Tom Meyers and see if has any idea what might be going on with the seat. He may be able to sell you a used needle in better condition too.

[JayG]

The vaccum tank is working well now and the carb is too. BUT.... I thought I got things to the point that I had the carb fixed and could move on but I still have a leaking issue that is puzzling me.

The carb has an overnight leak that appears to be originating in the horizontal air section that goes into the block. I shut down the fuel from the vacuum tank and wipe the carb clean and the block too. In the morning I have leakage and the side of the block is wet below the air intake. Is there something that I'm missing here? I could understand if it was coming out of the vent hole but that area is dry. It's annoying to smell gas in the garage constantly. Any thoughts?

[R.White]

It could be that you have too high a fuel level in the float chamber. Also, it would be a good idea to fit a new gasket between the carb and the block - any air leak here will cause a weak mixture and rough running.

Ray.

[JayG]

All new gaskets are installed. How do you adjust the fuel level in the float chamber? There is no adjusment that I can see. The float comes up and trips the levers to make the needle shut off the flow. Am I missing something?

Thanks Jay

[MikeC5]

I think the only way it can be adjusted is using the method you mentioned before with adding a washer to raise the position of the seat. Maybe get some brass shim stock of various thickness cut into the washer shape and fine tune. I do notice on mine, when running fuel will appear on the float bowl and I think this is because there is no gasket between the float bowl cover and float bowl. Looking closely at the float bowl cover underside it looks like it is supposed to be vented (and so not perfectly sealed) to top of bowl. With the engine running I'm sure it's normal for fuel to be splashing around in there and some will find its way out at the vent/joint. Anyone else notice this?

[R.White]

I can only speak from my own experience. The needle could be the kind which is soldered onto a collar into which the levers sit and pivot with the up and down movement of the float. If the position of the needle needs to be altered it will have to be unsoldered and moved down very slightly so that it shuts of the fuel sooner. It may be however, that the lobes which come into contact with the top of the float have worn flats on them and can be taken off and reversed to bear on the unworn side - but this will possibly have already been done before. I would prefer to have an experienced carb rebuilder look at it as I am a bit out of my depth with these things.

Ray

[JayG]

Mike - there is a small notch in the top of the float bowl which is the vent. I saw this being used when the old float filled up and wouldn't float. i would agree that maybe a little splash during operation would be normal. Mine is after the thing has been sitting for a while.

Ray - The needle is soldered to the collar. I didn't see any flat wear on the lobes but will look again. I'm going to try to raise the seat and see if that helps.

[R.White]

Just a guess, but if the lobes are not worn and you have a perfect seal with the needle seating, then either the needle has been moved or replaced and is sitting too high or the float has been replaced with a slightly smaller one. Whatever; there should be no leaks at the block joint. What have you missed - sorry, I really don't know.

Ray.

Edited August 26, 2012 by R.White (see edit history)

[JayG]

The good news is that I've stop the leaking. I replaced the vacuum tank shutoff as it was seeping and not shutting off completely. No more gas smell in the garage. The bad news is I'm only treating the symptom and not the cause. I'm really thinkng that the problem is the float level. The lobes ar not flattened but everything seems to indicate that the gas level in the float bowl is too high. I will play with this a little more to see if I can resolve it. Either by raising the seat or by adding something to the bottom of the lobes to bring the float down a little.

Thanks to all who offered advice.