cam sensor update

[Don Hudd]

just update and ask for more help. I have no codes except b440, air mix door, the cam magnet was good so i changed sensor and new coil pack, this fixed those codes but.... still stalling. drove around the block and it stalled. started right back up, but it seems to be loping, rpms drop way down when put in gear, can keep it running if give it gas . i left it idle in driveway but it seems to want to stall. i have no gauges, any suggestions?

[Ronnie]

Have you cleaned the idle air controller as suggested before?

[Don Hudd]

Ronnie, just got done cleaning idle air control, still stalling, restarts but stalls unless I keep giving it gas. Thanks for helping

[Ronnie]

Does the engine stall going down the road at speed or... just when coming to a stop or idling?

If it stalls at highway speed the following will not apply.

Next step for me (without being able to check fuel pressure) would be to go into diagnostics and use the IAC override (ES09) to run the idle up and down to be certain the IAC is capable of controlling the idle properly. The following page on my website will help explain how it's done.

Reatta On-board Diagnostics Booklet - Reatta Owners Journal

You should also inspect for vacuum leaks that could contribute to a problem with the idling properly.

[Don Hudd]

it was stalling at highway speeds.

[Don Hudd]

would fuel filter cause this? if I can get gauges what would i look for?

[Guest Corvanti]

would fuel filter cause this? if I can get gauges what would i look for?

for the fuel pressure, not the "best", but works and not expensive:

Fuel Pressure Tester & Fuel Injection Pump Tester

other gauges are available such as multimeters, voltmeters, etc. not for everyday use (for long, i would think), but usable, and better than nothing!

and yes, a dirty fuel filter may cause your problems, also a overheated fuel pump, due to running with less than a around 1/8th tank of fuel. (the gas "cools" the in-tank fuel pump). possible, but i doubt that caused the problem, unless at some point that clogged the fuel pump strainer. but think the clog would be more permanent.

as said before, check your fuel pressure when it's running poorly. at least that would rule it out, if you have decent fuel pressure...

[Don Hudd]

thanks, also checking old posts to see if maybe maf

[Don Hudd]

cleaned tha maf, still the same

[Don Hudd]

Does the engine stall going down the road at speed or... just when coming to a stop or idling?

If it stalls at highway speed the following will not apply.

Next step for me (without being able to check fuel pressure) would be to go into diagnostics and use the IAC override (ES09) to run the idle up and down to be certain the IAC is capable of controlling the idle properly. The following page on my website will help explain how it's done.

Reatta On-board Diagnostics Booklet - Reatta Owners Journal

You should also inspect for vacuum leaks that could contribute to a problem with the idling properly.

Ronnie I did this override and it started at 30 and dropped to 20, stays running at idle just idles a little rough, but while driving it will stall., does not matter if going highway sppeed or just though the neighborhood. Going down the road it will kinda jerk then stall, after that it restarts but stalls if I don't keep foot of gas. Thanks again Ronnie. BTW I can get my hands on pressure gauge, where is the tuturorial

? Ronnie you have been sooo helpful.

[Ronnie]

I don't have a tutorial for checking the fuel pressure. The gauge connects to the sharader valve on the fuel rail. It sticks up through the plastic cover (not shown in the photo) that covers the intake manifold.

[Don Hudd]

Thanks Ronnie, what should pressures be or where can I find that info. Do I check while running or not or both?

[Ronnie]

If pressure is around 42psi and not fluctuating you are OK. Best time to check is when you are having problems. Check both ways.

First I would connect 12 volts from the battery to the fuel pump prime/test connector (see photo) and let the pump run for a while and see what pressure the pump maintains. Be aware that the fuel pump will run as long a you have 12 volts applied to the test connector regardless of the key being on or not. That will bypass all the relays and switches to test what the pump is capable of doing. Report back here what pressures you get.

[padgett]

If it is leaning out then I'd watch for the O2 sensor transitions going to zero and the Instantaneous fuel command going to max as the computer tries to compensate.

[Don Hudd]

going to get gauges now, as to o2 post way over my head how do i do that

[Guest Corvanti]

i always rule out the "simpler" things first, before going to (for me) harder things.

here's Ronnie's site about O2 sensors:

O2 Sensor Diagnosis - Reatta Owners Journal

if your don't have a "service manual" -1988 Final Edition, i'd see about getting one! it just happens to be available in Ronnie's "Reatta Store" (Books and Accesories)...

The Reatta Store - Reatta Owners Journal

[Don Hudd]

i have had o2 sensors go bad twice, threw acode both times and never did car act like this, but will follow your suggestion, thanks

[Don Hudd]

ok, did pressure check, whe i started the engine it regestered 36, let it run for 5 mins or so and stayed there also stayed when i shut it off. what does this mean since Ronnie said it should be 42psi? anything else i need gauges for before i take them back?

[padgett]

Bit low but enough for idle, does it change if you rev to 2000 rpm ? Was the idle stable ? What happens if you pull the vaccuum line off the fuel pressure regulator ?

Edited August 7, 2012 by padgett (see edit history)

[Don Hudd]

Padget, Idles ok, a little loping but rpms 650. the problem is it starts, idles drives for about 1 mle(Now even less) and stalls, at highway sppeed. starts right back up but if I don't brake torque or keep giving it gas it stalls. after cleaning the IAC and MAF O went around the block in my sub about 1/2 mile and it stalled twice. When it stalls I can hear a sound going from trottle body not a backfire at all but like spitting gas?

[wws944]

As Padgett suggested, pop off the little vacuum line on the fuel pressure regulator. (See Ronnies photo back in post #11.) If there is any sign of fuel, the FPR needs to be replaced.

My car also had a bad FPR and had similar symptoms. Car ran fine when cold and the computer was in open loop mode. But as soon as things warmed up enough for the computer to go into closed loop mode had a problem holding idle. This was because the unmetered fuel leaking into the intake via the vacuum line was messing up the computers calculations.

[Don Hudd]

Thanks, will check when I get home. Would this also cause lower pressure than the 42psi Ronnie said? Mine was at 36psi. I have a FSM but can't find where the pressure should be in it, so Thanks to all of you for the help!

[2seater]

42-43 psi is correct with the vacuum disconnected from the FPR and mid-30's when it is connected and engine idling. The fuel pressure should spike upwards if you blip the throttle with the vacuum connected and drop back down as the engne returns to idle. This is normal.

[Ronnie]

Thanks, will check when I get home. Would this also cause lower pressure than the 42psi Ronnie said? Mine was at 36psi. I have a FSM but can't find where the pressure should be in it, so Thanks to all of you for the help!

2seater is correct. However, if you will go back to my post, #13, I recommended you test it was with the engine off, and 12 volts connected to the test connector. The pressure should have been 42psi. I even furnished a photo to help show how to do it. In my opinion that is the best 1st test for the fuel pump. It allows you to run the pump at full regulated pressure for an extended period of time to see if the pump is capable of doing it's job. For whatever reason you chose not to do that. That brings us to where we are now... trying to compare apples and oranges to determine if your test showed the correct pressure.

[Don Hudd]

sorry Ronnie, when I did 1st test, did it that way but had a bad gauge. When I got a good one, was in a hurry and forgot. Going out right now and will test as you suggested. I know you guys devote alot of time helping folks like me a I really do thank you

[Don Hudd]

of course as my luck goes, the 2nd pressure gauge i got, loan program this time from o'rielys, worked this morning(i assume) but not tonight. did what ronnie said, no pressure so started it to confrim bad gauge and yes no pressure but car was running, took it back but they do not have another so now on to tomorrow, will report findings. btw, while car was running i pulled the vacuum hose off fuel regulator and rpms went up. no gas in vacuum line that i could see.

[Don Hudd]

OK, just got done pressure testing, with doing as Ronnie said running a jumper wire to run fuel pump with key off I get 44-45psi. Did this for 5 minutes, stopped and it held pressure. Then started engine got 36psi when pulling vacuum line to fuel regulator, it jumped to 44-45 psi. What does this mean? Thanking any and all in advaance.

[Don Hudd]

could it be fuel regulator?

[Ronnie]

Now that you have done the test that you have it appears to me the fuel pump and regulator are capable doing their job. Although your pressure is slightly high, which is probably caused by the regulator, I don't think your stalling problem is caused by the fuel pressure. I think you are going to have to look elsewhere for your problem.

If I remember correctly your have replace the Ignition Control Module. I have know the new modules to be bad. Assuming yours is good the next items I would be looking at are the Crankshaft Position Sensor and a massive vacuum leak. For those two items, here are your options.

Crankshaft Position Sensor: If you don't know the history of it change it out. It's a cheap part. It isn't too hard to change but you must take care in aligning the sensor too the shutter ring on the harmonic balancer. Recently instructions for doing that were posted here on the forum. I don't have a tutorial for doing it on my website. I wish I did. Maybe someone will write one. I will be happy to post it.

Massive vacuum leak : As Padgett stated, watch for the O2 sensor transitions going to zero and the Instantaneous fuel command going to max as the computer tries to compensate for extra raw air from a vacuum leak (or defective EGR valve). You can learn how to do this by looking at the Diagnostic Instruction booklet on my website. Take the time to learn how to use. It is your best friend when troubleshooting your Reatta.

EGR valve: The EGR valve can lean the fuel mixture out by allowing raw air to enter the engine at the wrong time. First check the base gaskets and connections to the EGR for vacuum leaks before testing it for proper operation.

It's possible to check the EGR valve for proper operation by going into diagnostics and energizing each of the three solenoids one at a time. With the engine off you should hear the EGR click each time you energize a solenoid. While the engine is running, each time you energize one of the solenoids the engine should stumble and possibly even die. If energizing a solenoid doesn't have any effect then something is wrong... possibly the port that solenoid opens is stuck open.

Other members here may have some better suggestions.

If I had to pick one of the three items I suggested above, I would start with the Crankshaft Position Sensor Replacement. In my opinion it is the one most likely to cause the engine to just shut off while driving.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Fuel pressure looks OK. The pressure test procedures start on page 6E3-A-30.

Should be 40 - 47 pump running, engine off, and hold steady when pump is turned back off. Should drop to 31 to 42 at idle with a warm engine. Disconnecting vacuum line should increase pressure back to 40 - 47 psi. at idle.

Looks like you will have to look elsewhere for your problem.

[Don Hudd]

thanks guys

[Don Hudd]

Ronnie, will car start right back up after stalling if crankshaft position sensor bad? I have no problem starting, it stalls when driving, will idle in driveway, but once I drive it and it stalls, have to keep giving gas to keep it running.

[Ronnie]

Symptoms of a bad Crankshaft Position Sensor can vary widely but there are two common failure modes.

1. Engine starts and runs until it gets hot and then quits. Will start again when it cools down some.

2. Engine quits running completely and will not start until it is replaced.

As I have said before... If it would completely quit running, and you could immediately check the spark while it wouldn't start, it would be much easier to troubleshoot this problem.

[Don Hudd]

iy always restart immediatly

[Don Hudd]

it always restarts immediately is what that should have said, no cool down needed, just have to keep giving gas to stay running

[2seater]

If it shuts off while driving, is this while the throttle is depressed or when the throttle is closed while slowing down? Failure to idle sounds like a combination of a vacuum/EGR leak coupled with a defective IAC. As Ronnie mentioned, get familiar with the onboard diagnostics, which can be observed while driving. Failure of the IAC should not actually cause a stall as the throttle body should have a basic curb idle speed around 500 rpm. If the engine is under load, this may not be enough to sustain the idle.

I know when my crank sensor failed a year ago it did not do so in a predictable manner which made it very difficult to pin down. I never did get it to fail completely. It would actually quit while idling by simply closing the hood or drivers door or sometimes run normally for a week or more. It acted just like a loose connection that could be triggered by even the smallest vibration and yet not do so with a heavy blow. Are the battery connections clean and tight?

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Did you ever do a tap test on your MAF?

I'd drive around in diagnostics mode looking at the outputs of the MAF (ED21) and TPS (ED01), seeing if they reflect throttle position and track throttle changes smoothly. Also while you're in there, make sure the air temp sensor (ED23) and coolant temp sensor readings (ED04) make sense. While these should throw trouble codes if significantly out of wack, might just be intermittently bad.

[Don Hudd]

Did tap maf and also cleaned it. Justs seems like not getting gas after it stalls. It will start right up and idle while just sitting but when driving will stall out but always starts right back up but if I take foot off gas it will stall and not idle

[Don Hudd]

after reading older posts on stalling issues, it seems I have done all that was suggested, claned maf, iac, fuel pressure check, etc. I am at my wits end,

[zoltanb]

I had a similar situation with my oldsmobile turned out it was the ecm. If you have a spare try it.