The concept of a "survivor" and Wabi-sabi.

[MarrsCars]

I am lucky enough to have purchased one of my dream cars last year, the W111 coupe pictured in my avatar and profile. I chose this car above others I had seen over the years because, for the price, it was in the best condition meaning ALL trim was intact, zero rust, and was owned by the same family since new. The car needed some much-needed tuning and general mechanical repair (to a cost exceeding it's purchase price), and has some tears in the leather from not being conditioned, wood that's lost it's clear coat and paint that is failing in some spots.

At first I thought I would restore the interior and paint, as such would bring the car to very clean and presentable condition, not "show car" worthy, but nice enough to garner no complaints and be a lovely driver. By the way, the car is presently my daily driver. Now, I have gone to thinking that I really enjoy the story each dent in the bumpers tells, the chip in the side windshield, the wear from a mother carting her children around, then those kids doing the same with their brood, etc. This follows the Japanese appreciation for the natural wear and aging that all objects, including us, endure. The term is called Wabi-sabi. The one thing that prevents this car from being a true "survivor" is that it has been repainted once already, in same color as original, but they did not remove all trim so there is overspray on some poorly masked rubber, but not too bad unless up close. Almost everything else is dead original, tho I have done some minor work like replace the rear parcel shelf because it had gotten moldy, so it looks new, and I buffed the dry shellac that was flaking on most of the dash, but oiled it so it still looks antique and not glossy and refinished.

My question to you all is if I genuinely like the small tufts of horsehair poking out here and there and those bumper dings because of the feeling of authenticity it gives the car, how do you feel about keeping it as a survivor if the paint is not original? I am not concerned with values, current or future, I will probably never sell this car, but is that intrinsic emotional value lost because the original paint is gone? Should I just touch up those panels and drive it with the rest as is or go ahead and redo the interior and paint because this is not a true "survivor"?

Edited May 2, 2012 by MarrsCars
Sentence structure and spelling. (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Interesting question, of course. At least you realize the conundrum being discussed, often you see ads for cars that state something like "100% original, only painted twice and upholstered once with new chrome" and the word "original" sorta loses meaning.

My opinion is do what you feel comfortable doing, and let other people live with it. Leave the character of the car intact, if you wish, and don't worry about the paint job being redone at some point.

My Cord is a '60's paint job that's flaking and beat up, but once I repaint the car, where do I stop? Tear out the original rear seats and side panels? Rechrome everything? So, I've decided to leave as is.

You'll get different reactions from different people. Some small percentage will fuss at you for not restoring, a larger percentage will just say "neat car", a few people will find some little original detail that they enjoy seeing...........and of course, there are the people who will ignore the car, since to them, only perfection is worth owning....

Just have fun with it........

[Guest brh]

Not saying this to be a smart @ss, but its your car. What will make YOU happy? I have a true survivor, am very pleased to keep it that way. I don't really care about someone else's view on what I should or should not do with the car. I like it just the way it is. So in all honesty, if keeping it the way you like, makes you happy, whats the problem? I'm sorry if this comes off harsh, it all boils down to what you want to do. I know people who have restored cars that won't drive them because they are too nice... and they were not happy with their decision. Just my .02

[MarrsCars]

My Cord is a '60's paint job that's flaking and beat up, but once I repaint the car, where do I stop? Tear out the original rear seats and side panels? Rechrome everything? So, I've decided to leave as is.

I battled the same dilemma, if I just repaint, the interior and chrome will look even worse! Right now, it all meshes so well and harmoniously.

You'll get different reactions from different people. Some small percentage will fuss at you for not restoring, a larger percentage will just say "neat car", a few people will find some little original detail that they enjoy seeing...........and of course, there are the people who will ignore the car, since to them, only perfection is worth owning....

Just have fun with it........

I have encountered all of these reactions in my short ownership. I have found that compared to perfectly restored cars, people tend to feel more comfortable talking to me or giving me a wave or thumbs up, maybe because I don't look like some millionaire in a museum piece but rather a guy who just lucked out. My car looks attainable to them I believe.

I also had one gentleman who apparently waited for me to leave a cafe just to ask me about the wood, again, it is not in perfect condition at all, tho not damaged. He seemed to really get a kick out of the fact that it was original.

Your final point is one I battle with, at a couple of upcoming events I have the opportunity to place my car in non-judged paddocks with the local MBCA club, but those members, typically speaking, prefer perfect or restored cars to be considered among the ranks. Now I don't care about impressing them, I just want my car parked somewhere off the street and safe from star-prying fingers at a heavily-populated gathering, but I know my car will look like the Beverly Hillbillies came to town! lol

I do enjoy the car, in fact it always cheers me up whenever gloomy Oregon weather has me down, and when I'm not in it I am thinking about being in it.

Thanks for your thoughtful response, gets me thinking!

[MarrsCars]

Not saying this to be a smart @ss, but its your car. What will make YOU happy? I have a true survivor, am very pleased to keep it that way. I don't really care about someone else's view on what I should or should not do with the car. I like it just the way it is. So in all honesty, if keeping it the way you like, makes you happy, whats the problem? I'm sorry if this comes off harsh, it all boils down to what you want to do. I know people who have restored cars that won't drive them because they are too nice... and they were not happy with their decision. Just my .02

Not harsh at all, thanks, I want honest opinions. I think you are reinforcing the direction I have been leaning. It is true that I no longer worry about parking next to another car in a lot, or worrying if someone will scrape my bumper as I did with my modern Benz (sold it for this one, YEY!) or my old '57 Cadillac which was too nice to leave unattended. It's freeing to not have to worry, I just park at the front of a row so no SUV trailer hitch crushes that lovely grille.

[MCHinson]

My suggestion...

Drive it and enjoy it!

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

My suggestion...

Drive it and enjoy it!

I agree....

[earl e rizer]

One thing I remember about the M-B club members years ago that they were definitely more interested in driving their cars then if they were correctly restored.

I'm in Ontario Canada, so a lot of the old Benz's had rust problems due to our miserable climate and liberal use of salt on the roads. I had a '66 250 SL at the time that was not mint, and never would be without spending far more than it's value. the few members I had chatted with were very cordial to me and helped me find parts for my car, so I still respect them.

Without knowing what your local M-B club is like, I suggest you at least approach them and get a response. If they are snobbish, forget 'em and just enjoy the heck out of your very nice old car!

Specific marque clubs do tend to be snobbish, some worse than others, but can be a great source for info.

[MarrsCars]

Without knowing what your local M-B club is like, I suggest you at least approach them and get a response. If they are snobbish, forget 'em and just enjoy the heck out of your very nice old car!

I've not yet attended any functions as a member, but the leadership level folks I've engaged with via email on a couple of occasions have been very gracious, and Portlanders in general are polite people. I remember before I joined their ranks as a member but was already an owner for several years, I wanted to chat with a few of them at the local concours. All their cars were circled with a rope around, and while every other club and marque had owners who were seated next to their cars and engaging with curious onlookers, not a single MB member acknowledged me in any way even after I loitered around several cars for a good 20-minutes, made eye contact with a couple with an inquisitive smile, and so on. My primary reason was that I had been looking for just the type of car I eventually bought, and really would have appreciated some first-hand knowledge and advice. Only after the ropes came down and most had left did an elderly couple with a lovely 220se cab take the time to chat about their car. The whole experience turned me off to the club, and I only joined later for the magazine and Classic Center discount I have to admit. I plan to attend some events this summer as part of the club, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but the experience really formed a lasting opinion.

I don't relay this story out of malice, as I've told it on the MB forums as well, but more to educate the members that car shows are social events, not just for the clubs but for interacting with an interested public.

[earl e rizer]

As with all clubs (single marque car clubs especially) there are always a few people that can ruin an onlookers perspective. The higher price of the car= more of this attitude prevalent, so with M-B's that surely happens. I found a few guys, fortunately that were really into the cars not the status. They were both European and still had the accents to prove it. This may not be the same case in your area. I lived in Kitchener Ontario at the time and it has a large German, Austrian & Polish population.

Mostly working class and the shop were they hung out was not high end so it made it more approachable to me at least. Their newsletter had decent info too. But that was close to 25 yrs ago, so i doubt it's the same now.

My worst experience, and the one that made me vow to never ever go near a single marque club again were worshipers of the plastic American idol, Corvette...... a common (enough) Chevy! Every time I get the urge to buy one, the memories of those owners sobers me up enough to say NO!

But I would buy another 2 seat M-Benz again.

[Rusty_OToole]

It's all according to how far you want to go. Split seams can be sewn up, leather softened and reconditioned, paint touched up, polished and waxed, chrome and aluminum polished. The good thing is, a Mercedes is made of real steel, real leather, real chrome and can be kept original and refurbished. Many cheaper cars simply fall apart in your hands if you try to fix anything.

If you can find old Mercedes in junkyards and Pic a parts you may find replacement parts that are better than yours but not glaringly new.

I applaud your efforts to keep the car original. Once you get it in condition, a little work every month will hold off the effects of age almost indefinitely.

[Guest shadetree77]

You'll get different reactions from different people. Some small percentage will fuss at you for not restoring, a larger percentage will just say "neat car", a few people will find some little original detail that they enjoy seeing...........and of course, there are the people who will ignore the car, since to them, only perfection is worth owning....

Just have fun with it........

Completely agree with everything said here. There is something to be said for leaving it original. Not everyone understands. Like trimacar said, some folks will think you're crazy for not restoring it while others will absolutely love it. My car is a completely un-restored original and I'm the second owner. The only thing I've done is replace worn out mechanical components with NOS or reproduction parts to make it a daily driver. I love sitting in it and thinking about where it's been and how amazing it is that it found it's way to me after 60 years. I even love that old car smell from the interior! I have a blast with it and more people have positive comments about it than negative. Just look at it this way, keep it original for now, shine up the chrome, drive the heck out of it and enjoy it! Then, sometime down the road if you decide to fix it up, so be it. Like you said, it's not going anywhere. Might as well have some fun with it!

[stock_steve]

Keep it mechanically sound and then (to repeat the oft-used phrase in this thread) drive & enjoy it!

Our old '56 Ghia is beloved for all the same reasons:

[Steve_Mack_CT]

The beauty of an original car is, should it ever reach the point where it is just too shabby for your tastes, you can always choose restoration at that point. But once you go down that route what's done is done, so I would give that some thought Marrs. Also, interesting cars (like yours) stand on their own, and there is a lot more interest in a driven car than there used to be.

That said, if you do restore ask yourself honestly how much your budget is and research options before diving in. There are some cars that are better left as is unless one is ready, able and willing to committ to a true restoration vs. a quick paint job.

Also, don't let people turn you off, as has been said here there are a few bad apples in every bunch. I know a few people with some incredible cars you would never believe were owners of very top tier collector cars, and have had conversations with people who think their run of the mill driver makes them "king of the hill" Same in any hobby - dog breeders, I will tell you, will give car collectors a run for their money any day in the snob department.

Right now we are having a blast detailing our SL, all cosmetic components original, and as Rusty says these are well built cars - as I spend time cleaning each area I am more and more pleasently surprised at how she is cleaning up. Nice to have an interesting car that I am still fine with leaving in a restaourant parking lot... Still, having had a couple of pretty good restorations I have yet to have a high point car, and would like to do that at some point. Ideally, a trailer queen just to experience that part of the hobby for a year or so, then drive it. well see - my point is I hav an appreciation of what goes into that as well, and while I am very happy to see the trend towards driven cars and more to the point of this thread, maintained originals, it is amazing to see the work that goes into some of these restored cars. Nice to have options...

Meanwhile, Stock Steve pulls out yet another cool car....

Edited May 8, 2012 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[stock_steve]

The beauty of an original car is, should it ever reach the point where it is just too shabby for your tastes, you can always choose restoration at that point. But once you go down that route what's done is done, so I would give that some thought Marrs. Also, interesting cars (like yours) stand on their own, and there is a lot more interest in a driven car than there used to be.

That said, if you do restore ask yourself honestly how much your budget is and research options before diving in. There are some cars that are better left as is unless one is ready, able and willing to committ to a true restoration vs. a quick paint job.

Also, don't let people turn you off, as has been said here there are a few bad apples in every bunch. I know a few people with some incredible cars you would never believe were owners of very top tier collector cars, and have had conversations with people who think their run of the mill driver makes them "king of the hill" Same in any hobby - dog breeders, I will tell you, will give car collectors a run for their money any day in the snob department.

Right now we are having a blast detailing our SL, all cosmetic components original, and as Rusty says these are well built cars - as I spend time cleaning each area I am more and more pleasently surprised at how she is cleaning up. Nice to have an interesting car that I am still fine with leaving in a restaourant parking lot... Still, having had a couple of pretty good restorations I have yet to have a high point car, and would like to do that at some point. Ideally, a trailer queen just to experience that part of the hobby for a year or so, then drive it. well see - my point is I hav an appreciation of what goes into that as well, and while I am very happy to see the trend towards driven cars and more to the point of this thread, maintained originals, it is amazing to see the work that goes into some of these restored cars. Nice to have options...

Meanwhile, Stock Steve pulls out yet another cool car....

Ha! Thanks Steve! We've owned the old Ghia since the mid-1980s. I found it advertised in The Bargain News, believe it or not, and I *raced* to go and see it, then bought it as quickly as I could. It's a diamond in the rough, original Switzerland car, with KPH speedo, bulb headlights, etc..

I also related to your comment about dog breeders--we have been around collie circles for many years, and find "all types" there too...

I look forward to checking out your "detailed-out" M-B one of these days also!

[The Continental]

Keep it the way it is otherwise you might fall onto the slippery slope of wanting everything else redone.

I was driving a nice survivor, my old '76 El Camino Classic a couple years ago when a bum asked me at a stop light when I was going to restore it. I guess I could've said how expensive a proper restoration is and then asked for some change.

[MarrsCars]

All good input folks, thanks. I think replacing the seats with better, but still old and correct, seats from another car could be an option down the road. These were never conditioned and despite my efforts are tearing the more I use the car. I'm still fine with them at present but may switch them out in the future. Buying old seats is usually cheaper than new seat covers anyway and would definitely match the patina.

One thing I am loving is how approachable the car is to people, relating to stock_steve, a lady with a cute sleeping young daughter in her arms walked up to me yesterday and started asking how long I've had it and said she loves that it's all original. I try to never prejudge people but I didn't expect her to be interested in my car, but she then told me how she had a one-owner Karmann Ghia convertible that "I wish I had kept."

I am finding that so much of the car is looking good just from careful cleaning, polishing and care. I figured the paint was too far gone but polished the top surfaces and now it looks even better than I imagined it could. Funny thing is, I replaced the parcel shelf and patched the top of the seatbacks when I first got her, just itching to do something, and now I wish I had left them alone. So that seems to answer all my questions, do as little as possible aside from spending voluminous amounts of time and cash on the guts of the car and keep the tank full and enjoy her. I just read about the Mileage Award Program and will be enrolling in that, I'm definitely planning to put her over the 100,000 mile mark this summer. (Got her with 95k last November, she's at 98k now, all in-town mileage just cruisin' around.)